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Topic: So, what's the other side of the coin? (Read 31061 times) previous topic - next topic
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So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #25 –
Peter Gabriel - Passion: Music For The Last Temptation Of Christ.
I wonder why it didn't crop up before....

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #26 –
I second Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms

Listen to the dynamics in the song Ride Across the River

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #27 –
The Postal Service - Give Up is another good example of a recent release that is a little louder but still sounds great.  Its not really rock, but it still sounds good to my ears.

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #28 –
David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars

Every version on CD I have has always been a great remaster (and I have about 2 remastered editions on disc.) Hehe and something I found kinda interesting, my earliest remastered edition (released in 1990 on Ryokodisc) is actually a bit louder than the more recent CD layer of the SACD remaster (released by EMI in 2002). Not like the 1990 remaster is compressed or anything, but I figured the younger generation would be louder.

Edit: wording

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #29 –
Tracy Chapman (1988)
Eric Clapton MTV unplugged (1992)
Madonna Ray of Light (1998)
Grant Lee Buffalo Fuzzy (1993)
Mindy Mccready If I dont stay the night (1998)
Cranberries No Need to argue (Not The Remastered(1994))
Mariah Carey Buterfly (1997)
Weezer Blue (1994)
Jackie Leven Creatures of Light & Darkness (2001)
Jackie Leven The Mystery Of love is greater than the mystery Of Death (1994)


Not too bad recent CD's:
Avril Lavigne Let Go
Sheryl Crow Globe Sessions
Dixie Chicks Wide open spaces
Lene Marlin Playing my Game
Norah Jones Come away with me


Just noticed that S Club 7 CD's have some dynamic range. S Club party (a pop hit single) is well clear of -1dB!

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #30 –
Well, I sometimes think it's not that as if we can really complain. Even if it's all over, there's shedloads of good stuff from the past to be listenened to.

The best 'remaster' I've heard  in the last year or two is "Crime Of The Century", although it would have been even better if if they hadn't 'de-noised' it.

A master is a master - tape hiss is the same as ambience noise, and our hearing does a perfectly good job of masking it, without the artifacting that 'Sonic No-Noise' (et al) inflicts on the recording.

I would recommend Trilok Gurtu's "The Glimpse" for all-out, jump-out-of-your-skin dynamics.

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #31 –
"David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars "

I'll second this.  Definitely a good recording.  I also think Sade - Diamond Life is well recorded, the sounds are great.
-I gave Xtina her Groove back!

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #32 –
"I also think Sade - Diamond Life is well recorded, the sounds are great."
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I was thinking about buying Sade Diamond life. Which version sounds great, Remaster or Original?

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #33 –
Ill add another vote for Tool's Lateralus.

A few other cds I think sound pretty good are:

Alice in Chains - Jar of Flies
Radiohead - O.K. Computer
Pink Floyd - DSOTM

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #34 –
Do SACDs count? :-)

If so, I recently purchased the SACD of the Miles Davis album MILES SMILES, it is astoundingly good quality, it blows away the redbook version that is part of the Quintet 65 - 68 box. I always liked the track "Freedom Jazz Dance", but now Miles Smiles is my favourite acoustic Miles album, just because the SACD quality makes the music sound so intimate and immediate compared to the thin sounding regular CD.

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #35 –
Quote
Do SACDs count? :-)


They certainly do! Some day I'll have a player that recognizes the "Super" portion of the cd, but for now I think I can still play the "normal" track? 

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #36 –
Maybe I am a bit of an arse, but I would not buy anything at a much higher pirce that I cannot test here and now. Maybe the SACD is damaged?

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #37 –
Quote
Peter Gabriel - Passion
I'll second this...  I have the 2002 remaster; it sounds incredible.

Sting's The Soul Cages (1991 original issue) is pretty near perfect, too.

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #38 –
I very much like the Soundtrack CD Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones.
It's somehow the cd I hear most of the time. It's very dynamic and not annoying at all. Episode III Soundtrack CD is not as good as this, don't know of the other ones.
flac 1.2.1 -8 (archive) | aoTuVb5.7 -q 4 (pc, s1mp3)

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #39 –
The best sounding CDs that I own:

The already mentioned album
Dire Straits - Brother in Arms

but the there are two more CDs I think which are mentionable:
Dire Straits - Love Over Gold (more noise, but beautiful sound and dynamics)
Dire Straits - On Every Street (not as good as Brothers in Arms, but still very good)

Album Gain between -1 and -4 dB, Track (Album) Peak between 0.9 and 0.99:
Best of Cool & The Gang Sampler CD (natural sound, good dynamics)
Best of Bob Marley and the Wailers Sampler CD (very good sound quality and dynamics)
Alphaville - Forever Young
The Best of Sting 1984 - 1994

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #40 –
since almost all _recent_ POP albums are simply crippled by over compression, I'll just list the few ones that still have decent dynamics :

The Ex - 2004- the Turn  album_gain : -6.7 dB.  This album shows punk can have depth.
(the previous 'The Ex' albums are just as good. 24 years of good sound, great band, punk music with talent)

all R.E.M. albums. 'Around the Sun' was released in 2004, and is still good mastered. -8.5dB replaygain, they didn't fall in the loudness race trap. musically it's not their best album though..

Tom Waits  I like The 2004 album, 'Real Gone'. Of course, nobody would dare stupidly over-compress this stuff. replaygain -7.2 dB

The Roots - 2004 The Tipping Point  replaygain : -8.6 dB. one of the few (recent) rap albums that doesn't go for loudest mastering possible. and the music is very good. actually that makes me wonder if the reason I like that band more than most rap bands might simply be because they have a good sound.

the Streets - 2002 Originate Pirate Materia replaygain -7.6dB, another atypical (brit) rap album. well, it's not usual rap music anyhow, not just the mastering.

Placebo - 2004- Sleeping with Ghosts  I guess that's the biggest seller of all the albums I listed so far, so it's remarkable it wasn't compressed to death. replaygain : -9.2dB. that's already a bit loud, but not to the point where it feels like soup coming out of the headphones. it actually sounds quite good.

Muse - 2003- Absolution  -9.1 dB. though some tracks lack dynamics in my ears, but others sound good. hmm a half-success.


Electrelane - 2005 Axes is decently mastered. their previous albums too.

Franz Ferdinand their eponym 2004 album has a good sound. Just found out it's been mastered at Abbey road studios. there must be people there that know how to say "no we won't make it louder" to music companies..  (replaygain -6.2 dB)

oh and yeah, Radiohead. even their loudest (-8.5dB)  2003 album, Hail to the thief, has a good sound. They're semi-gods, they can't kill their sound with compression

I tried the new Stones album, thinking it might be mastered in the good old way. but it just has the same sound as 99% pop release of the last few years.  nearly -11dB, holy cow. nice soup.

electronica albums don't seem to suffer as much from stupid compression. I guess they care more about their sound than rock bands.

for instance :
Miss Kittin - 2004 I com is great, and has a great sound. replaygain -7.2 dB

I didn't bother checking other recent electro albums, I think none the ones I own were over-compressed..

(edit : the streets album I had in mind was the 2002 one)

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #41 –
Quote
Tool's Lateralus is a great example of being able to master "hot" and still acheive sonic balance and dynamic.

That's definately true. Someone mentioned Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction which also sounds great to me.

I would like to add Danzig I & II from 1988/90

And for some strange reason Metallica - Kill 'em All (1983). Yes, it screams "cheap production" in your face from second one, but .. I think it's the drums. Never heard anything like that again ever after

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #42 –
Quote
the Streets - 2004- A grand dont come for free replaygain -3.4dB, another atypical (brit) rap album. well, it's not usual rap music anyhow, not just the mastering.
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Interesting. I have that CD and the replaygain value is: replaygain_album_gain = -9.62 dB. I'm in the UK and bought this around the time it came out.

Quote
oh and yeah, Radiohead. even their loudest (-8.5dB)  2003 album, Hail to the thief, has a good sound. They're semi-gods, they can't kill their sound with compression
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=325929"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't mind a bit of compression but distortion as a result of recording too high, gets right up my nose. Listen to 2+2 = 5, at around 1:37-1:41 where Thom says "You can scream and you can shout". The vocal sounds as though it's hitting some limiters on the words scream and you. Perhaps it was supposed to be like that?

I particularly like John Martyn's Solid Air album. Eric Clapton's Unplugged is another one I enjoy listening to. Another is Anotony And The Johnson's stuff, simple, nice recording.
daefeatures.co.uk

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #43 –
Quote
And for some strange reason Metallica - Kill 'em All (1983). Yes, it screams "cheap production" in your face from second one, but .. I think it's the drums. Never heard anything like that again ever after
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Does that sound somewhat similar to Nirvana's In Utero?
Acid8000 aka. PhilDEE

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #44 –
One of the recent CDs that is very well mastered (and mixed) in my opinion is I am a bird now by Antony and the Johnsons. Although the RG value is rather low (album gain -7.41 dB), it is full of dynamics and I automatically turn up the volume to hear all the details.

The album by itself is beautiful by the way, Antony won the British Mercury prize this week. You definitely have to get used to his voice, but when you do...

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #45 –
Quote
The album by itself is beautiful by the way, Antony won the British Mercury prize this week. You definitely have to get used to his voice, but when you do...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=326257"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Indeed.   
Get the first album too, if you haven't already. Cripple And The Starfish, although lyrically slightly weird, just sounds beautiful.
daefeatures.co.uk

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #46 –
Quote
Quote
The album by itself is beautiful by the way, Antony won the British Mercury prize this week. You definitely have to get used to his voice, but when you do...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=326257"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Indeed.   
Get the first album too, if you haven't already. Cripple And The Starfish, although lyrically slightly weird, just sounds beautiful.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=326259"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the tip! I do not have the first one yet, but I will definitely get it. I think the lyrics on I am a bird are already pretty weird, it's hard to identify yourself with lines like "One day I'll grow up and be a beatiful woman". But the strange lyrics contibute to some sort of mystical feeling, I guess.

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #47 –
Quote
Quote
the Streets - 2004- A grand dont come for free replaygain -3.4dB, another atypical (brit) rap album. well, it's not usual rap music anyhow, not just the mastering.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=325929"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Interesting. I have that CD and the replaygain value is: replaygain_album_gain = -9.62 dB. I'm in the UK and bought this around the time it came out.


my bad, the Steets CD I have is the previous, 2002 Originate Pirate Material, which I've been enjoying a lot. just ripped it and RGed it, it's -7.62dB
When I looked for the RG of that streets album I only found "A grand don't come for free" mp3s on my hard drive and thought that was the one.
Actually I wonder where I got those from, the replaygain value is weird.
the dynamics are not quite exceptional on those. for instance the keyboard in "could well be in" is dull sounding, compared keyboard in previous album.
if you say the CD's RG is  -9.62dB, it's coherent with how those mp3 sound (they're most presumably not coming from some alternate master or anything, but much more likely they were already mp3gained - to 86 dBSPL reference ??- when I re-mp3gained them unknowingly)

gonna correct that mistake in my post.

Quote
Quote
oh and yeah, Radiohead. even their loudest (-8.5dB)  2003 album, Hail to the thief, has a good sound. They're semi-gods, they can't kill their sound with compression
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I don't mind a bit of compression but distortion as a result of recording too high, gets right up my nose. Listen to 2+2 = 5, at around 1:37-1:41 where Thom says "You can scream and you can shout". The vocal sounds as though it's hitting some limiters on the words scream and you. Perhaps it was supposed to be like that?


I think so, this track has lots of distortion (just everywhere after 1:55 ..), I take the harsh sound to be intentional. though, I agree the distortion pre 1:55 is a bit surprising, the track could have been nice with a contrast based on distortion-free pre 1:55 / heavy distortion suddenly. well I'm not thom yorke, if he wants a bit of distortion even before the storm begins, it can be a premonition of things to come, or coherence to the track's general mood or anything, and it works with me !

There are very different kinds of sound on that album, I think it's pretty safe to assume the distortion on a few tracks is intentional. The album is very enjoyable as a whole, for me it's really a great job.

edit : ah, distortion in Sail to the Moon around 2:32, that one annoys me though :-(
strange they made that song so loud actually, I'd have enjoyed it as a sweet, quiet track.

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #48 –
The greatest sounding cd ever: The church - after everything now this
(and all new church albums)

The worst sounding cd ever: the Jesus and the mary chain - psychocandy
and all un-remastered cure-cd´s from the eighties

-bluewater

So, what's the other side of the coin?

Reply #49 –
the best sounding cd in the metal genre i heard was

Dream Theater - Images & Words

clear, open sounding, just fantastic... why aren't there more cds that sound like that? good music deserves a good production 
member of the "i have a cat-avatar"-group ;)