HydrogenAudio

Hydrogenaudio Forum => Validated News => Topic started by: TBeck on 2010-01-07 20:04:56

Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: TBeck on 2010-01-07 20:04:56
Final release of TAK 2.0.0 ((T)om's lossless (A)udio (K)ompressor)

This version brings a new codec that is both faster and stronger.

It consists of:

- TAK Applications 2.0.0.
- TAK Winamp plugin 2.0.0.
- TAK SDK 1.1.1.
- TAK Decoding library 2.0.0.

Download

Download the archive in the upload section: TAK 2.0.0 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=77605&view=findpost&p=678268)

What's new

This release introduces a new file format, which can not be decoded by earlier versions of Tak, Takc, in_tak and tak_deco_lib! But surely it can decode files created by any earlier version.

Improvements:

- Slightly better compression of CD-Audio for any preset (ranging from 0.09 to 0.37 percent for my primary test corpus).
- More than 2 percent better compression for my 8-bit test corpus.
- More than 1.5 percent better compression for my 192 KHz / 24-bit test corpus.
- Up to 0.45 percent better compression for my LossyWav test corpus.
- Higher encoding speed for any basic preset (without addditional evaluation level), higher decoding speed for any preset. Depending on the cpu up to 11 percent faster encoding for -p0 and up to 15 percent faster decoding for -p3 compared with V1.1.2.
- While the new codec is smaller than the previous one, the binaries are a bit bigger because the decoder for the old file format takes up about 18 KB.
- The file format is prepared to support some more future improvements.

Modifications:

- Added xrecode II to the list of applications with TAK support in the readme file.

Known issues:

- If you use pipe decoding and the application reading the pipe is beeing terminated before the whole file has been read, TAKC may get into an endless loop and has to be manually killed with the task manager. I don't think this is a big issue but i will try to fix it in one of the next versions. BTW: Big thanks to shnutils for testing the pipe decoding!
- There seem to be some compatibility issues with pipe decoding to some other applications ("crc1632.exe" has been reported). I will try to fix it in the next release.

What has changed in comparison to the beta release

- More than 1 percent better compression for my 8 bit test corpus. The modification may also help some very low amplitude 16-bit files.
- A bit better compression for some very special problem files.

More information

You may find some useful information in the beta thread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=77090&view=findpost&p=674218).

Plans for V2.0.1

Many, therefore i have to deceide what to do first:

- Tuning of the new codec.
- Implementation of some advanced features of the new codec which are already supported by the decoder.
- Evaluation of 320 predictors.
- Support for the Wave64 file format.
- Support for multi channel audio.

That's definitely far too much for one release.

Have fun...

Thomas


edit: Download link added
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: TBeck on 2010-01-07 20:21:04
Currently i don't have permission to edit my initial post, therefore i can not set a link to the upload: TAK 2.0.0 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=77605&view=findpost&p=678268)
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-07 22:02:59
Great, thanks!
I have several albums ripped and left as wavs, waiting for this codec.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: dB on 2010-01-07 23:18:51
Many thanks Tom 
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: yerma on 2010-01-08 07:13:57
Great work, thanks!
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: ssjkakaroto on 2010-01-08 13:21:00
Thanks Thomas
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: BugHunter on 2010-01-08 14:30:21
Thanks again Thomas.

Some tests:
Code: [Select]
Graeme Revell - Lara Croft Tomb Raider:
TAK - 228MB (239 205 929 bytes) 2.0 Final
APE - 228MB (239 224 557 bytes) ExtraHigh
TAK - 228MB (239 270 826 bytes) 2.0 Beta
TAK - 228MB (239 922 625 bytes) 1.04

Pulp Fiction OST:
TAK - 211MB (221 785 173 bytes) 711 kbps, 2.0 Final, Great!
TAK - 212MB (222 448 669 bytes) 713 kbps, 2.0 Beta
TAK - 213MB (223 429 990 bytes) 716 kbps, 1.12

David Holmes - Ocean's Thirteen:
TAK - 259MB (272 559 773 bytes) 815 kbps, 2.0 Final
TAK - 259MB (272 611 827 bytes) 816 kbps, 2.0 Beta


Code: [Select]
8bit solid file from the game:
OFR - 56.0MB  (58 810 291 bytes) (highnew --experimental --optimize best) better than bestnew
TAK - 59.2MB (62 089 921 bytes) 2.0 Final
TAK - 59.5MB (62 476 667 bytes) 2.0 Beta
TAK - 60.9MB (63 931 215 bytes) 1.12


Code: [Select]
AudioDoctor FSQ 2:
TAK - 77.0MB (80 753 075 bytes) 2.0 Beta, strange...
TAK - 77.4MB (81 241 788 bytes) 1.0.3
TAK - 77.6MB (81 455 724 bytes) 2.0 Final
Beta better than final release.  :o

Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Perun on 2010-01-08 18:52:30
This is great, thanks.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Compact Dick on 2010-01-08 20:29:25
Your stellar work continues to amaze, TBeck

I can confirm that foobar2000 can play back TAK 2.0.0 files after updating tak_deco_lib.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-09 09:33:40
Thanks again Thomas.

Some tests:
Code: [Select]
Graeme Revell - Lara Croft Tomb Raider:
TAK - 228MB (239 205 929 bytes) 2.0 Final
APE - 228MB (239 224 557 bytes) ExtraHigh
TAK - 228MB (239 270 826 bytes) 2.0 Beta
TAK - 228MB (239 922 625 bytes) 1.04

Pulp Fiction OST:
TAK - 211MB (221 785 173 bytes) 711 kbps, 2.0 Final, Great!
TAK - 212MB (222 448 669 bytes) 713 kbps, 2.0 Beta
TAK - 213MB (223 429 990 bytes) 716 kbps, 1.12

David Holmes - Ocean's Thirteen:
TAK - 259MB (272 559 773 bytes) 815 kbps, 2.0 Final
TAK - 259MB (272 611 827 bytes) 816 kbps, 2.0 Beta


Code: [Select]
8bit solid file from the game:
OFR - 56.0MB  (58 810 291 bytes) (highnew --experimental --optimize best) better than bestnew
TAK - 59.2MB (62 089 921 bytes) 2.0 Final
TAK - 59.5MB (62 476 667 bytes) 2.0 Beta
TAK - 60.9MB (63 931 215 bytes) 1.12


Code: [Select]
AudioDoctor FSQ 2:
TAK - 77.0MB (80 753 075 bytes) 2.0 Beta, strange...
TAK - 77.4MB (81 241 788 bytes) 1.0.3
TAK - 77.6MB (81 455 724 bytes) 2.0 Final
Beta better than final release.  :o

What switches did you use? -p4e for the latest and -p5e for the older ones?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: BugHunter on 2010-01-09 09:55:28
What switches did you use? -p4e for the latest and -p5e for the older ones?

I used p4m for 2.0 and p5m for older ones.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: HotShotFR on 2010-01-09 10:06:02
Wow, vielen Dank Thomas!

Some stats and results going from 1.1.2 to 2.0.0, same parameters (-p4 -ihs, all at CD samplerate/quality):

16 hours of "world music" (celtic tunes, enya, african or chinese folk music etc.)
Code: [Select]
Total Size : 5.23GB (5 617 564 246 bytes)
Duration : 16:46:26.387 (2663039652 samples)
Avg. Bitrate : 744 kbps
Codec : TAK
Codec Profile : TAK 4
Encoding : lossless
Tool : TAK encoder 1.1.2

Total Size : 5.22GB (5 609 717 481 bytes)
Duration : 16:46:26.387 (2663039652 samples)
Avg. Bitrate : 743 kbps
Codec : TAK
Codec Profile : TAK 4
Encoding : lossless
Tool : TAK encoder 2.0.0

Thats 1kbps less and ~8 MB saved.

Bigger corpus of "ancient" music (medieval, renaissance and barocco)... about 178 hours...
Code: [Select]
Total Size : 45.7GB (49 074 526 816 bytes)
Duration : 1wk 0d 10:03:42.702 (28269101153 samples)
Avg. Bitrate : 612 kbps
Codec : TAK
Codec Profile : TAK 4
Encoding : lossless
Tool : TAK encoder 1.1.2

Total Size : 45.5GB (48 915 090 367 bytes)
Duration : 1wk 0d 10:03:42.702 (28269101153 samples)
Avg. Bitrate : 610 kbps
Codec : TAK
Codec Profile : TAK 4
Encoding : lossless
Tool : TAK encoder 2.0.0

Now it's about 2kbps less, saving around 160MB. Got the same -2kbps on a 5 GB corpus of vocal songs.

Re-encoding seems no slower - that means it's fast (no numbers here) - and I confirm efficiency has improved on all files  Well done!
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: halb27 on 2010-01-09 11:56:22
The new version's bitrate improvement for my test set of various pop music is
- 3 kbps for -p2
- 2 kbps for -p3 and -p4 (quite in line with recent post).

Thank you, Thomas.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-09 11:59:32
The new version's bitrate improvement for my test set of various pop music is
- 3 kbps for -p2
- 2 kbps for -p3 and -p4 (quite in line with recent post).

Thank you, Thomas.

Improvement over 1.1.2 or 2.0 beta?
Also, I think that gain in % of the original size would be more useful.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: halb27 on 2010-01-09 12:41:24
Improvement over 1.1.2 or 2.0 beta?
Also, I think that gain in % of the original size would be more useful.

Improvement is over v1.1.2.
Average bitrate is 761 kbps for my test set (when using v2.0.0 -p3).
This allows for an impression, not for an exact percentage of saving as I recorded just the average bitrate shown by foobar.
Sufficient for my purpose, not the whole story.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: foosion on 2010-01-09 19:10:38
I've uploaded a new version of foo_input_tak that is bundled with the tak_deco_lib.dll from TAK 2.0.0. It would be interesting to see some timing comparisons between decoding with foo_input_tak.dll/tak_deco_lib.dll and takc.exe. My first, very short test with a file created by TAK 1.0.2 was... surprising.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: ssjkakaroto on 2010-01-09 19:26:51
I think the zip file is corrupt foosion.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: foosion on 2010-01-09 19:33:32
Indeed. Thanks for reporting, I re-uploaded the file.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Steve Forte Rio on 2010-01-09 19:42:42
I use -md5 key but TAK does not add Audio MD5 to the file. Why?

P.S. Pipe encoding using foobar2000 1.0 beta 6 converter.

-e -p4m -md5 -silent -ihs - %d
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: TBeck on 2010-01-09 19:43:57
I've uploaded a new version of foo_input_tak that is bundled with the tak_deco_lib.dll from TAK 2.0.0. It would be interesting to see some timing comparisons between decoding with foo_input_tak.dll/tak_deco_lib.dll and takc.exe. My first, very short test with a file created by TAK 1.0.2 was... surprising.

Well, decoding of pre 2.0.0 encoded files may be slower than with 1.1.2, because i didn't care for proper code alignment of the backwards compatibility sources. If that' s the cause of your surprise...
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: TBeck on 2010-01-09 19:44:32
I use -md5 key but TAK does not add Audio MD5 to the file. Why?

How do you know?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Steve Forte Rio on 2010-01-10 08:54:18
I use -md5 key but TAK does not add Audio MD5 to the file. Why?

How do you know?


File properties in foobar2000.

Example (FLAC):

Duration : 7:40.067 (20288940 samples)
Sample Rate : 44100 Hz
Channels : 2
Bits Per Sample : 16
Bitrate : 990 kbps
Codec : FLAC
Encoding : lossless
Tool : reference libFLAC 1.2.1 20070917
Embedded Cuesheet : no
Audio MD5 : 9D5656CD23D06A1E882AE329587D49DA


For TAK "Audio MD5" line is missing.

Also foo_verifier compares calculated MD5 with MD5 stored in the file. For TAK files this feature does not work
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: foosion on 2010-01-10 11:29:38
Well, decoding of pre 2.0.0 encoded files may be slower than with 1.1.2, because i didn't care for proper code alignment of the backwards compatibility sources. If that' s the cause of your surprise...
I was surprised that takc.exe was slower than tak_deco_lib.dll on TAK 1.0 files. I tried it today with a TAK 2.0.0 encode of the same file and tak_deco_lib.dll is slower - like we're used to. Still, having to manually fiddle with code alignment in a high-level programming language in this day and age... may I suggest (again) to use a modern compiler?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Qest on 2010-01-11 02:02:47
Picking up on foosion's comment... I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but how much of an improvement do you think there would be by rewriting TAK in C or C++ and using a bleeding edge compiler?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: TBeck on 2010-01-11 09:10:36
First: Thanks to all for testing!

I use -md5 key but TAK does not add Audio MD5 to the file. Why?

How do you know?

File properties in foobar2000.
...
For TAK "Audio MD5" line is missing.

Also foo_verifier compares calculated MD5 with MD5 stored in the file. For TAK files this feature does not work

Currently the TAK SDK doesn't support access to the MD5 meta data stored in the stream, therefore foobar can't read it. This does not mean, that no MD5 is present in the stream. Please use TAK's file info function to check if the MD5 is available.

Well, decoding of pre 2.0.0 encoded files may be slower than with 1.1.2, because i didn't care for proper code alignment of the backwards compatibility sources. If that' s the cause of your surprise...
I was surprised that takc.exe was slower than tak_deco_lib.dll on TAK 1.0 files. I tried it today with a TAK 2.0.0 encode of the same file and tak_deco_lib.dll is slower - like we're used to. Still, having to manually fiddle with code alignment in a high-level programming language in this day and age... may I suggest (again) to use a modern compiler?

Good idea! I still want to switch to C, but am a bit hesitant because of all the code conversion i will have to perform. But i can't wait forever...

Thank you for the new plugin! 

Picking up on foosion's comment... I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but how much of an improvement do you think there would be by rewriting TAK in C or C++ and using a bleeding edge compiler?

Very little. It primarily would save me some coding time.

And usually speed improvements of the encoder don't necessarily lead to faster presets...

That's my evil habit: I tend to add more features to the encoder which will eat up the speed gain achieved by optimizations.

Here are my rules for the construction of the presets:

- Make p0 as fast as possible but not at any price. The compression strength still has to be competitive.
- Make p2 as strong as possible while encoding at least as fast as the competition at their default settings.
- Put p1 somewhere in between.
- Make p3 about half as fast as p2. Use the same proportion for p4/p3.

For the additional evaluation levels:

- Make EXTRA as strong as possible at about half the encoding speed of the standard preset.
- Put any remaining encoder option into MAX. But always keep an eye on the speed of -p4m because many users are judging TAK's performance by its strongest preset.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-11 12:09:34
- Put any remaining encoder option into MAX. But always keep an eye on the speed of -p4m because many users are judging TAK's performance by its strongest preset.


So at some point we might see p3m being stronger than p4m?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: zhjckfd on 2010-01-11 13:25:32
I'm converting to TAK with foobar2000 using parameters -e -md5 -ihs -Pmax - %d
But when I try to test with
takc.exe -t
or
takc.exe -t -md5
I get something like
196* Wave meta data missing
What's the problem and how this can be solved?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: TBeck on 2010-01-11 17:44:26
- Put any remaining encoder option into MAX. But always keep an eye on the speed of -p4m because many users are judging TAK's performance by its strongest preset.


So at some point we might see p3m being stronger than p4m?

Shush... That's totally secret! 

I'm converting to TAK with foobar2000 using parameters -e -md5 -ihs -Pmax - %d
But when I try to test with
takc.exe -t
or
takc.exe -t -md5
I get something like
196* Wave meta data missing
What's the problem and how this can be solved?

It's no problem. By default TAK saves the header of a wave file in the compressed file. On decoding it will restore this original wave file header. Basically this would not be necessary: TAK could create a new wave file header when decoding. Unfortunately there are several ways to construct a valid header for wave file containing identical audio data. So the header cretaed by TAK could be different from the original header and a binary compare of the decoded file with the source file could fail, although the audio data is identical!

If you use foobar for pipe encoding, you have to specify the -ihs option: (I)gnore (H)eader (S)ize. That's because foobar will sent am incomplete wave file header, that is lacking the size of the file. With no valid header available, TAK can't store the header data and then has to create an own header on decoding. The message will tell you about it. As i wrote above, the audio data itself isn't affected by all this.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: dewey1973 on 2010-01-11 19:37:21
Is there a guide or set of instructions for re-encoding older TAK files?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-17 08:23:19
Code: [Select]
takc -e -p4e -md5 -wm0 "3613 - Gloria Rv588, 11. Coro- Cum Sancto Spiritu.wav"
3613 - Glo...Cum Sancto Spiritu.wav .......... Wave file not supported

1 files failed.

This time it's serious.
How can I know what's wrong and what can I do with it?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: lvqcl on 2010-01-17 11:15:48
Quote
Sample rates from 8000 to 192000 Hz. Bit depths of 8, 16 or 24. Channels: Mono or Stereo.


What format does this file have?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-17 16:29:20
Just a regular redbook, 44100, 16, stereo. Other tracks from this CD work flawlessly.
ADDED:
I noticed that if I decode it with flac, then tak doesn't work. But if I use bass library (via Total Commander plugin), it does.
I compared both files, there are differences in 2 places, header and the end. bass generates a file that's round 8 KB longer(13303852 vs. 13312044 B), with additional data looking random to me.
The differences in the header:
FLAC:
(http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/ovwih2im/20100117_174535.png)
bass:
(http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/ze8zvy63/20100117_174552.png)
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: TBeck on 2010-01-17 17:55:56
Thanks for the screen shots.

The 4 bytes following the RIFF id tell, how long the RIFF data will be.

For FLAC:  33,135,012 bytes !!!
For bass: 13,312,036 bytes

Since your FLAC decoded file is only 13303852 bytes long, the header is obviously invalid.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-17 19:40:59
Thanks for the screen shots.

The 4 bytes following the RIFF id tell, how long the RIFF data will be.

For FLAC:  33,135,012 bytes !!!
For bass: 13,312,036 bytes

Since your FLAC decoded file is only 13303852 bytes long, the header is obviously invalid.


Thanks for the answer. So what should I write to have a correct wav w/out the extra data? I guess I mix something with endianess (because I barely understand it), but I can't sum / convert the numbers to get  33,135,012.

Also, I suggest making TAK more error resilient. Though the wav is incorrect, it's not really a problem to encode it.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: BugHunter on 2010-01-19 14:22:34
Also, I suggest making TAK more error resilient. Though the wav is incorrect, it's not really a problem to encode it.


Well, generally this is not TAK's problem. As TBeck wrote:

Since your FLAC decoded file is only 13303852 bytes long, the header is obviously invalid.


I also encode with TAK sandwich with raw adpcm/pcm & ogg. This was done without any problems. And decoding too.

Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-20 08:51:47
Also, I suggest making TAK more error resilient. Though the wav is incorrect, it's not really a problem to encode it.


Well, generally this is not TAK's problem. As TBeck wrote:

Since your FLAC decoded file is only 13303852 bytes long, the header is obviously invalid.


I also encode with TAK sandwich with raw adpcm/pcm & ogg. This was done without any problems. And decoding too.




I don't call it a problem either. Just a misfeature. It deals with errors in a correct, but the least welcome way.

BTW, I noticed that the audio track is cut. Scheduled for reripping.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: lvqcl on 2010-01-20 13:48:05
I don't call it a problem either. Just a misfeature. It deals with errors in a correct, but the least welcome way.

...so TAK should silently produce incorrect files?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-20 14:57:05
I don't call it a problem either. Just a misfeature. It deals with errors in a correct, but the least welcome way.

...so TAK should silently produce incorrect files?



Produce? Definitely no. It should correct wav errors when it's possible and just give a warning about decompressibility, if bit-bit correctness isn't preserved.
In the command line that I used there's -wm0 switch, so I made it clear that I don't care about metadata preservation anyway.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Agent69 on 2010-01-20 15:39:30
Looking through the TAK threads, I didn't notice ReplayGain being mentioned. So TAK doesn't support it? Or did I miss it somewhere?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: yerma on 2010-01-20 15:54:18
Replay Gain is supported. RG values are written into tags and work like any other apev2 tags.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Agent69 on 2010-01-20 16:35:36
But does the TAK encoder actually support it? I don't see RPG as an option on the command line.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: yerma on 2010-01-20 23:35:47
The encoder doesn't calculate any RG values. You need another app like foobar for that.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Agent69 on 2010-01-21 03:01:32
Thanks!
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: wdekler on 2010-01-21 18:14:58
Is there a guide or set of instructions for re-encoding older TAK files?


I'm also interested in how to do this, anyone? Thanks!
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Anakunda on 2010-01-24 15:03:30
Hello,

I was interested if TAK has any downsides against FLAC.
Except that I'd appreciate more plugins, at least CoolEdit filter and WhereIsIt tag reader plugin.
Thanks for TAK.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-01-24 17:40:07
Hello,

I was interested if TAK has any downsides against FLAC.
Except that I'd appreciate more plugins, at least CoolEdit filter and WhereIsIt tag reader plugin.
Thanks for TAK.

No support for multichannel music.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: smack on 2010-01-26 09:06:26
I was interested if TAK has any downsides against FLAC.

Lossless comparison at Hydrogenaudio Wiki (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison#Comparison_Table)
- Hardware support, Software support, Open source, Multichannel, OS support
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-02-21 07:17:24
Bug: Takc fails if there's any Unicode character in path.
Code: [Select]
E:\music\Jean Michel Jarre\1975-03-30 Les Granges brulées>"D:\TC\lib\packers\tak
c.exe" -e 14.wav "1.tak
14.wav                              .......... Error reading source

1 files failed.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-02-25 13:41:07
Bug: Takc fails if there's any Unicode character in path.
Code: [Select]
E:\music\Jean Michel Jarre\1975-03-30 Les Granges brulées>"D:\TC\lib\packers\tak
c.exe" -e 14.wav "1.tak
14.wav                              .......... Error reading source

1 files failed.


I just finished recompressing most of my library from flac -8 (sometimes stronger settings used) to tak -pMax -wp0 -md5.
Music styles are highly variable, there's practically everything.
Savings:
~3.4%.

Very good.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: servimo on 2010-03-07 21:18:27
A noob question: What could be a commandline for encoding files to tak using foobar2000.
I tried:
Code: [Select]
-e -md5 -ihs -p4m - %d
it gives me a window  showing me the encoding progress (very quickly) and then another saying "the file was not found" and really no file is created.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Anakunda on 2010-03-07 21:25:09
mine works with this
Code: [Select]
-e -pMax -md5 -ihs -overwrite -silent - %d
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: servimo on 2010-03-07 22:02:09
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3586/takencoding.jpg)
Why not working? What I am doing wrong?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: servimo on 2010-03-08 01:33:06
This is the output after converting:
Code: [Select]
1 out of 1 tracks converted with major problems.

Source: "C:\Media\Downloads\Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else\05. Dancing In The Dark.flac"
  An error occurred while finalizing the encoding process (Object not found) : "C:\Media\My Remasters\05. Dancing In The Dark.tak"
  Conversion failed: Object not found
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: johnsonlam on 2010-03-11 16:58:24
This is the output after converting:
Code: [Select]
1 out of 1 tracks converted with major problems.

Source: "C:\Media\Downloads\Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else\05. Dancing In The Dark.flac"
  An error occurred while finalizing the encoding process (Object not found) : "C:\Media\My Remasters\05. Dancing In The Dark.tak"
  Conversion failed: Object not found


1) Check "Tools -> Converter -> Command-line encoder folders", you should put the full path where "TAKC.EXE" was located

2) Remove the path information from TAK preset's "Encoder" field, put "TAKC.EXE" only
Try again, should work!
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: servimo on 2010-03-12 04:25:04
This is the output after converting:
Code: [Select]
1 out of 1 tracks converted with major problems.

Source: "C:\Media\Downloads\Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else\05. Dancing In The Dark.flac"
  An error occurred while finalizing the encoding process (Object not found) : "C:\Media\My Remasters\05. Dancing In The Dark.tak"
  Conversion failed: Object not found


1) Check "Tools -> Converter -> Command-line encoder folders", you should put the full path where "TAKC.EXE" was located

2) Remove the path information from TAK preset's "Encoder" field, put "TAKC.EXE" only
Try again, should work!

Thanks really works now.
I didn't think that could be some relation between the paths to the encoders and the encoder, If I give the full path to the encoder, I thought this was independent. Fool I am?. 

I love it TAK: I converted a FLAC file of 74,49 MB to TAK and it goes to 69,31 MB. Wow! -6,94% compressed relative to FLAC.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: _m²_ on 2010-03-12 06:40:10
This is the output after converting:
Code: [Select]
1 out of 1 tracks converted with major problems.

Source: "C:\Media\Downloads\Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else\05. Dancing In The Dark.flac"
   An error occurred while finalizing the encoding process (Object not found) : "C:\Media\My Remasters\05. Dancing In The Dark.tak"
   Conversion failed: Object not found


1) Check "Tools -> Converter -> Command-line encoder folders", you should put the full path where "TAKC.EXE" was located

2) Remove the path information from TAK preset's "Encoder" field, put "TAKC.EXE" only
Try again, should work!

Thanks really works now.
I didn't think that could be some relation between the paths to the encoders and the encoder, If I give the full path to the encoder, I thought this was independent. Fool I am?. 

I love it TAK: I converted a FLAC file of 74,49 MB to TAK and it goes to 69,31 MB. Wow! -6,94% compressed relative to FLAC.


To make the comparison useful, you should provide encoding setting for both files.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: nycjv321 on 2010-03-13 00:43:08
WOW compresses better than flac and wavpack every time!
I will start compressing more files in tak maybe even switch... once it becomes open source and works on linux ( linux is not so important lol for me right now using windows 7 haha)  I will definitely switch from flac to tak
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: [JAZ] on 2010-03-13 12:40:41
If linux is not the important part in your sentence, then I should warn you that open sourcing is not probable in the foreseable future:


http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=76866 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=76866)
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: nycjv321 on 2010-03-14 21:04:49
I understand this and completely respect this decision.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: statikat on 2010-03-15 16:03:54
Finally!
Switch from flac -8 results: -3.94% of 256 GB collection at -pMax. There are no really big differences in "full-range" musick... But! TAK is the best in encoding low-frequency material like Lull or similar drone substances. E/D speed is amazing. BIG Thanks for your work, Tom!
P.S. Any chance of 32 bit floating-point support?
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Mr.Duck on 2010-04-25 14:07:01
TAK is extremely impressive. Even on p0 I am impressed. I don't know why would anyone would use anything other than p4m? It is quite fast and file sizes are great. FLAC just doesn't have an answer to it at all. I would like to see a higher level of compression. A sort of insane preset to squeeze the file sizes down as much as possible without spoiling it with slow performance (on modern machines), seek issues, etc.

Other than that, thanks TBeck! 
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: thely on 2010-05-09 08:30:36
Any chance that i could listen to .tak files in VLC?
Would you probably create a plugin for it just like to winamp perhaps?

(http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75903 (http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75903))
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Anakunda on 2010-05-09 10:15:04
Any chance that i could listen to .tak files in VLC?
Would you probably create a plugin for it just like to winamp perhaps?

(http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75903 (http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75903))


only supported decoders are for foobar2000 and winamp so far so you will be able to playback tak audio in different player only after you convert it to any of formats suported by the player. Some players, like XMPlay support interface for Winamp decoder plugins. Then you can use in_tak.dll to play it aswell.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: thely on 2010-05-10 07:58:29
thanks for answer
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: sundance on 2010-05-10 09:55:47
Although I'm not using VLC,
maybe this could help:

TAK DirectShow Filter, a filter to enable any DirectShow Player (i.e. WMP) to play .tak files (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=74956)

.sundance.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Perun on 2010-05-30 19:13:53
When about 20 MB's worth of cover art (or maybe even less) is embedded in a TAK-compressed album image (CD or, say, LP), then seeking in foobar somewhere near the end of the file fails. I mean that trying to seek leads to an error and playback stops. Maybe that it is because the -p4m setting is used and the seek table is not present in the file. Then I wonder which is the highest compression setting that keeps the seek table.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: TBeck on 2010-05-31 21:28:58
When about 20 MB's worth of cover art (or maybe even less) is embedded in a TAK-compressed album image (CD or, say, LP), then seeking in foobar somewhere near the end of the file fails. I mean that trying to seek leads to an error and playback stops. Maybe that it is because the -p4m setting is used and the seek table is not present in the file. Then I wonder which is the highest compression setting that keeps the seek table.

TAK 2.0 will never create a seektable regardless of the compression setting. When decoding without seektable the decoder may have to search for the last audio frame. The current implementation of the seek algorithm will only search for it within the last 5 MByte of the file. No chance with a tag more than 5 MB large at the end of the file... If this is an issue depends on a couple of things affecting the seeking algorithm's operation, for instance on how much of the file has already been played and if and what seek operations have been performed.

The 5 MB limit has been choosen to avoid unpredictable long lasting seek operations in heavily damaged files. Well, obviously it's not enough for practical purposes...

I will increase the limit in the next release. I don't want to provide a quick fix, because modifications of the seek algorithm always involve quite a lot of testing. Sorry!

For files created with TAK 2.0 (and later) there is a more elegant way, because the final release stores the position of the last frame in the meta data. Unfortunately the current decoder does not use this info, because i had not enough time to test this feature.

  Thomas




Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: lvqcl on 2010-05-31 21:41:52
BTW wavpack has a 1MB limit (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=75212&view=findpost&p=697522) for cover art...
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Perun on 2010-06-01 13:45:31
TAK 2.0 will never create a seektable regardless of the compression setting. When decoding without seektable the decoder may have to search for the last audio frame. The current implementation of the seek algorithm will only search for it within the last 5 MByte of the file. No chance with a tag more than 5 MB large at the end of the file... If this is an issue depends on a couple of things affecting the seeking algorithm's operation, for instance on how much of the file has already been played and if and what seek operations have been performed.

The 5 MB limit has been choosen to avoid unpredictable long lasting seek operations in heavily damaged files. Well, obviously it's not enough for practical purposes...

I will increase the limit in the next release. I don't want to provide a quick fix, because modifications of the seek algorithm always involve quite a lot of testing. Sorry!

For files created with TAK 2.0 (and later) there is a more elegant way, because the final release stores the position of the last frame in the meta data. Unfortunately the current decoder does not use this info, because i had not enough time to test this feature.

  Thomas


Thank you for the answer. I am quite ignorant of these technical matters, and I didn't intend my post to sound as if it were a demand. Now I understand what causes the "problem" and see that that will always be a trade-off between seek times and the opportunity to store much data in tags. Maybe it is better to keep the 5 MB limit, especially considering what you say about the meta data.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: osodeh on 2010-07-24 10:57:20
Hi there, I've been a faithful TAK user for over two years now. However, I am considering to use dbpoweramb instead of EAC - mostly because development of EAC is sporadic at best. I tried using a command line encoder that i found on the net, but it is several years old - and before internal tagging capabilities were written into TAK - which is why (I think) my files are not tagged properly. I am not a particularly technical person, but if anyone has a CLI encoder.txt file that works with dbpoweramp and works with the most recent TAK version, can you please post it or point me the right direction?  Otherwise, I will have to stick with EAC for a while. I do think, however, that offering CLI encoders for dbpoweramp could expand use among dbpoweramp user community and perhaps help to generate higher adoption rates for TAK. Unless there are compelling reasons why I should not use dbpoweramp when encoding in TAK - in which case, let me know! CUETools looks promising as a free ripper, and it works with TAK, I think, although I can't get the proxy configuration to work properly - whereas proxies work perfectly fine in EAC and dbpoweramp.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Anakunda on 2010-07-24 12:57:53
Hi there, I've been a faithful TAK user for over two years now. However, I am considering to use dbpoweramb instead of EAC - mostly because development of EAC is sporadic at best. I tried using a command line encoder that i found on the net, but it is several years old - and before internal tagging capabilities were written into TAK - which is why (I think) my files are not tagged properly. I am not a particularly technical person, but if anyone has a CLI encoder.txt file that works with dbpoweramp and works with the most recent TAK version, can you please post it or point me the right direction?  Otherwise, I will have to stick with EAC for a while. I do think, however, that offering CLI encoders for dbpoweramp could expand use among dbpoweramp user community and perhaps help to generate higher adoption rates for TAK. Unless there are compelling reasons why I should not use dbpoweramp when encoding in TAK - in which case, let me know! CUETools looks promising as a free ripper, and it works with TAK, I think, although I can't get the proxy configuration to work properly - whereas proxies work perfectly fine in EAC and dbpoweramp.


If you want use dbpoweramp for some reason you always can grab to FLAC or other lossless format provided by dbpa and make lossless conversion to TAK aftrewards. It's not as comfortable however.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: Lebon14 on 2010-08-03 22:33:14
Thanks for the libs... will convert TAK to FLAC with it.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: RazorBoy143 on 2010-08-08 23:12:04
Hi there, I've been a faithful TAK user for over two years now. However, I am considering to use dbpoweramb instead of EAC - mostly because development of EAC is sporadic at best. I tried using a command line encoder that i found on the net, but it is several years old - and before internal tagging capabilities were written into TAK - which is why (I think) my files are not tagged properly. I am not a particularly technical person, but if anyone has a CLI encoder.txt file that works with dbpoweramp and works with the most recent TAK version, can you please post it or point me the right direction?  Otherwise, I will have to stick with EAC for a while. I do think, however, that offering CLI encoders for dbpoweramp could expand use among dbpoweramp user community and perhaps help to generate higher adoption rates for TAK. Unless there are compelling reasons why I should not use dbpoweramp when encoding in TAK - in which case, let me know! CUETools looks promising as a free ripper, and it works with TAK, I think, although I can't get the proxy configuration to work properly - whereas proxies work perfectly fine in EAC and dbpoweramp.


If you want use dbpoweramp for some reason you always can grab to FLAC or other lossless format provided by dbpa and make lossless conversion to TAK aftrewards. It's not as comfortable however.


When it comes to TAK working with dBpoweramp, it's one of the "Yeah...but" deals. This command line (using their CLI extension) use to work 100%,  pre-TAK 2.0:

-e -p4m -overwrite -ihs - "[outfile]"

Now, the metadata just doesn't appear in the file at all, but it plays just fine.

FYI: The compression setting shown is an example. You can modify it to anything you want.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: osodeh on 2010-08-19 14:49:41
Thanks, this is useful. i think I'll stick to EAC for now since it seems to be more versatile - at least with TAK that is.
Title: TAK 2.0.0
Post by: themanintheshadows_2451 on 2014-02-12 22:59:18
When it comes to TAK working with dBpoweramp, it's one of the "Yeah...but" deals. This command line (using their CLI extension) use to work 100%,  pre-TAK 2.0:

-e -p4m -overwrite -ihs - "[outfile]"

Now, the metadata just doesn't appear in the file at all, but it plays just fine.

FYI: The compression setting shown is an example. You can modify it to anything you want.


I had the same problem with WavPack until I figured out that dBpoweramp (with certain codecs) can't write tags by itself, and that you have to manually put that ability into the command line for anything to work. Here's my command line:

-e -p4m -overwrite -ihs -md5 -tt "Artist=[Artist]" -tt "Title=[Title]" -tt "Album=[Album]" -tt "Year=[year]" -tt "Track=[Track]" -tt "Genre=[Genre]" - "[outfile]"

It completely works, and passes md5 and bit comparison tests in foobar2000.