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Hosted Forums => foobar2000 => 3rd Party Plugins - (fb2k) => Topic started by: Chungalin on 2005-12-04 12:08:07

Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2005-12-04 12:08:07
I'd like to introduce a DSP I've been developing these weeks. It's a Dolby Headphone wrapper DSP. 

After some research on Lake DOLBYHPH.DLL bundled with software DVD players, I was able to find out its protocol used to interface with the client app. Then, why not make it work for myself?! And that was how foo_dsp_dolbyhp was originated. It wraps the functionality of the original DLL to be used under foobar2000. You just need to configure the plugin pointing out the location of that DLL in your system. Of course I'll NOT give any help about how to get that DLL.

foo_dsp_dolbyhp is available at the usual 3rd party component website. Any comments, criticisms, bug reports and legal issues  are welcome (under this thread).
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Stratman on 2005-12-04 21:55:12
Quote
I'd like to introduce a DSP I've been developing these weeks. It's a Dolby Headphone wrapper DSP. 

After some research on Lake DOLBYHPH.DLL bundled with software DVD players, I was able to find out its protocol used to interface with the client app. Then, why not make it work for myself?! And that was how foo_dsp_dolbyhp was originated. It wraps the functionality of the original DLL to be used under foobar2000. You just need to configure the plugin pointing out the location of that DLL in your system. Of course I'll NOT give any help about how to get that DLL.

foo_dsp_dolbyhp is available at the usual 3rd party component website. Any comments, criticisms, bug reports and legal issues  are welcome (under this thread).
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I tried  it but it sounds pretty bad to my ears. What is it supposed to do?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2005-12-04 23:24:38
If the plugin is working fine and you have selected the proper DOLBYHPH.DLL file, then you should hear the Dolby Headphone spatial effect when you use headphones (of course, if you use speakers you'd better disable this plugin).

You can read the background of Dolby Headphone (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/headphone_story.html) at Dolby Laboratories website, with an interesting Flash demo on the right side.

If after knowing this you still feel that the sound is incorrect, please let me know the DOLBYHPH.DLL version you have used, samplerate and number of channels you're feeding the DSP.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Stratman on 2005-12-05 21:04:12
Quote
If the plugin is working fine and you have selected the proper DOLBYHPH.DLL file, then you should hear the Dolby Headphone spatial effect when you use headphones (of course, if you use speakers you'd better disable this plugin).

You can read the background of Dolby Headphone (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/headphone_story.html) at Dolby Laboratories website, with an interesting Flash demo on the right side.

If after knowing this you still feel that the sound is incorrect, please let me know the DOLBYHPH.DLL version you have used, samplerate and number of channels you're feeding the DSP.
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I'm using version 1.10.0.270. Actually, having spent more time using it, I have to pull my foot out of my mouth! It works quite well. This is the only headphone DSP I've used that actually moves the sound field outside my head! I do have one question though. Reading from the site you listed it states "Dolby Headphone is designed to process a 5.1 signal. It can also process stereo sources, but the stereo signal must first be converted to a 5.1 signal." Do I need to use a componant such as "Channel Mixer" to convert a sterea signal to 5.1 first?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2005-12-06 00:57:19
Best results are obtained when a 5.1 signal is used, but there's no problem if just two channels are provided. The Dolby Headphone engine admits any signal from mono to 5.1, and internally performs  the proper calculations to provide the best output for each audio layout. I haven't tested any stereo-to-5.1 expander, but I doubt it would improve anything from the DH point of view.

By the way, users of WinDVD should be warned that if they use Dolby Headphone when watching DVD, the input signal feeded to the DH-engine is a downmix stereo 16bit, not 5.1! Surprising, uh? The best handler of DH-engine is PowerDVD, always feeding it with the proper format in 32bit float samples, 48KHz.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: kode54 on 2005-12-06 01:22:07
Interesting limitation there. I always wondered why WinDVD would display 16-bit regardless of the format or filtering, even if I turned that crap off. Pointless now that I am once again using Creative hardware with integrated software AC3/DTS decoding in the drivers, and now functionality similar to Dolby Headphone that can be used system wide. So, I think I'll keep it, with the fake S/PDIF pass-through, unless there is some other solution with Trimension DNM.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: thegeek on 2005-12-11 05:54:22
Nice job, works quite well. There is no doubt that the good folks at dolby knows what they are doing, it certainly does add a lot of "life" to quite a wide variety of music.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: edwardar on 2005-12-13 00:45:22
Just wanted to say thanks for a really useful plugin!  It's one plugin that has made it into my minimalist setup,

Ed
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: GiGurra on 2005-12-14 19:06:38
Quote
Just wanted to say thanks for a really useful plugin!  It's one plugin that has made it into my minimalist setup,

Ed
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The 3rd party site is down! And I just found this page =(

***************************
Problem fixed. Site went up. Time to give it a shot!
**************************

This.....could have been better ^^. Using my friends Dolby Headphone DAC was great, but this isnt very good at all. Thx for trying though. I hope there will be better versions soon. (I tried with the dll from one of my bundled powerdvd-CDs)

What needs to be done is really something to limit the reverb timing and really almost remove the eq-settings it adds. Problem is that we probably cant do anything about that since it's someone else's dll code.

Tried it with the following stuff:

Emu 0404
Musical Fidelity X-dac v3
Musical Fidelity X-can v3 headphone amp
Beyerdynamic dt880 headphones with proper eq-settings^^
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2005-12-14 23:19:52
I can't hardly do anything to improve DH sound output. My goal was just to figure out how to call the DH engine functions (challenging part, since I didn't have any documentation nor source code) and then use that knowledge to implement a plugin for foobar2000.

As far as I know, you can just select the Room Mode from the 3 presets, and that's all the control you have over reverb, etc. However, the function used to set the Room Mode has 3 other parameters that I wasn't able to figure out its meaning. Looks like DH engine hasn't many options to play with.

Regarding the question of DOLBYHPH.DLL versions, I have only seen 1.10.0270 (July 9 2002) and I don't know if newer versions have been released over these years. Lake Technology website provides no info about current development of this project.

GiGurra, what do you mean with "Dolby Headphone DAC" ? It's supposed that all official implementations of DH, even if they're on hardware, should sound the same.

Thanks for all the feedback
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: GiGurra on 2005-12-15 14:38:00
Quote
I can't hardly do anything to improve DH sound output. My goal was just to figure out how to call the DH engine functions (challenging part, since I didn't have any documentation nor source code) and then use that knowledge to implement a plugin for foobar2000.

As far as I know, you can just select the Room Mode from the 3 presets, and that's all the control you have over reverb, etc. However, the function used to set the Room Mode has 3 other parameters that I wasn't able to figure out its meaning. Looks like DH engine hasn't many options to play with.

Regarding the question of DOLBYHPH.DLL versions, I have only seen 1.10.0270 (July 9 2002) and I don't know if newer versions have been released over these years. Lake Technology website provides no info about current development of this project.

GiGurra, what do you mean with "Dolby Headphone DAC" ? It's supposed that all official implementations of DH, even if they're on hardware, should sound the same.

Thanks for all the feedback
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It sounds very different. I should have called it something else, since it's not really from Dolby, but made by creative.  Here's a link to a Swedish store [a href="http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=308150&cks=PRL]http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=308150&cks=PRL[/url] .

I was amazed that such cheap hardware used with my own headphones could sound that good. (You can set this to use D. Headphone only if you want)

Again, I really should have called it something else, since we really dont know what creative did on top of DHP, but it sure sounds good 0)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2005-12-15 16:07:02
Looks interesting. I've found the full specification at Creative Labs website:

Creative HQ-2300D (http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=437&subcategory=438&product=11430)

Yes, it has the DH logo, then it's an official implementation and theoretically it should sound very close to the software DLL.

Have in mind that sometimes the soundcard can add effects and EQ to the sound output. I had some trouble disabling all the sound effects in my integrated nForce2 (it was silently activating nVidia CineSurround each time I restarted Windows  ). DH should be the last and only effect before DAC.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: GiGurra on 2005-12-15 20:40:24
Quote
Looks interesting. I've found the full specification at Creative Labs website:

Creative HQ-2300D (http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=437&subcategory=438&product=11430)

Yes, it has the DH logo, then it's an official implementation and theoretically it should sound very close to the software DLL.

Have in mind that sometimes the soundcard can add effects and EQ to the sound output. I had some trouble disabling all the sound effects in my integrated nForce2 (it was silently activating nVidia CineSurround each time I restarted Windows  ). DH should be the last and only effect before DAC.
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This software version just sounds nowhere NEAR that dac. With that dac connected it was really like stepping into a large listening room with VERY VERY VERY nice speakers

The software version was like sitting in a bathroom with a very bad eq^^
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: ItsLateIMustSleep on 2006-01-02 01:36:28
Is it possible to use that Plugin in Winamp, too?
I find this plugin great but would like to use it.
Thanks for answers.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-01-04 02:23:12
I had to choose between Winamp and foobar2000 when I decided to make this plugin. I chose foobar (although I was using Winamp by that time) because it has a stronger plugin interface and modularity.

I don't discard the possibility of coding a version for Winamp in a near future, but at present you can consider this as a good reason to try foobar2000.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Dark_Angel on 2006-01-09 04:09:56
If you can find a way to do this but for the Dolby Prologic IIx in PowerDVD/WinDVD you will be my new personal hero.
It is a bit different to do...but it doesn't hurt to ask.

But this is already a great plugin, thanks!!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: daveuu on 2006-01-09 13:18:08
Definately a worthwhile plugin! Thanks. 

I was wondering if anyone knows how to encode FLAC to OGG with this DSP for use in a personal stereo. I suppose this would apply to any foobar DSPs. And ideally not in realtime i.e. re-recording all the FLACs with a diskwriter but encoding at CPU limited speeds but applying this DSP just before encoding.

Thanks,

Dave UU.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: daveuu on 2006-01-11 01:06:20
Quote
I was wondering if anyone knows how to encode FLAC to OGG with this DSP for use in a personal stereo. I suppose this would apply to any foobar DSPs. And ideally not in realtime i.e. re-recording all the FLACs with a diskwriter but encoding at CPU limited speeds but applying this DSP just before encoding.
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Whoops! Should have had a look at Diskwriter before posting that  . . . I assumed it wrote files as it played them ('realtime') but it does exactly what I wanted  Isn't Foobar great!!

Dave UU
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: option1 on 2006-01-16 13:59:38
Thank you for this great plugin!!!

I've been looking for something like this since this is my first choice when encode DVD to DivX for my portable player...

how did you find out, how DolbyHph.dll is used by the players? I was wondering if it was now easier to implement TruSurroundXT or CyberlinkHeadphone. They produce even more impressing virtual surround, I think. Any attempts?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-01-18 00:51:46
Discussing technical details about how I did it is beyond the purpose of this forum and this thread, but if someone has a special interest then send a PM.

Most of the other DSP's that have been proposed here to be "freed" the same way as DH are Directshow filters, and DirectShow is Microsoft COM based (Component Object Model). This is an open interface and it's well documented in MSDN and the net.

The work to do here would be a plugin that could wrap a Directshow filter for foobar2000, or, even better, make fb2k DirectShow based! I don't know the reasons why DirectShow/COM architecture was ignored when developing fb2k. I think that nowadays every Windows audio/video/DVD player is DirectShow based.

BTW thanks for all the feedback.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: euphonic on 2006-02-12 10:46:44
I'd love to try out the plugin -- rock & roll and thin apartment walls don't mix well -- but it doesn't appear to work on either Win98SE or WinME. At the DSP config window, clicking the "..." button (to specify the location of the .dll) doesn't do anything, and playback results in an error message saying I haven't specified where DOLBYHPH.DLL is.

btw, does anyone know what the "headphone virtual spatialization" in ffdshow's audio mixer is based on?

euphonic
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: admiraljustin on 2006-02-12 18:29:32
I'm in love this, and I hope it's ported to 0.9 when the time comes.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-02-18 00:12:40
Since there have been two folks asking me the same thing this week, I would like to clarify the issues under Win98 and alike. They aren't really an issue, the point is that the plugin is UNICODE based and Windows 95, 98 and Me don't have built in support for this.

Honestly, this plugin doesn't really need to be Unicode, it can do its work in ANSI. But sometime we'll all have to change our concept of "char" from one-byte to two-byte, even on the most insignificant project (yes, even for printing a "HELLO WORLD" !!). foobar2000 uses internally UTF-8, but I think it's not a good option for internal data. UTF-8 is GREAT for documents, html, etc. but not as an internal representation of strings due to it's a variable length coding.

I can rewrite the code to be ANSI if some of you want to keep using Win98, but I have heard that next versions of foobar2000 won't run on old Windozes anyway. Can anyone confirm or refute this "gossip", please?

I expect to port the code to 0.9 when things become stable and the SDK gets released.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: ssamadhi97 on 2006-02-18 02:32:27
The foobar2000 SDK provides plenty of help for handling UTF-8 strings. Of course string operations can be pain on variable-length encoding if you reinvent the wheel over and over again, but generally they just need to be implemented properly once.

As for 0.9, no Win9x/ME support is planned.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: iZenja on 2006-03-28 09:27:05
Quote
I expect to port the code to 0.9 when things become stable and the SDK gets released.


Does the time seem right now?  I just discovered Dolby Headphone through WinDVD and I love it. It's not very practical to play things through WinDVD though, it would be nice to use this with foobar. I look forward to it.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Audionut on 2006-03-28 12:36:23
I love this plugin. Produces very pleasing sound through headphones when the rest of the family are asleep.

Would love it if it was ported to 0.9.

Thanks.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-03-28 23:23:39
There will be 0.9 version. I'm in the process of switching from Visual Studio 6 to Visual Studio 2005 (required for compiling any 0.9 code) and this will mean some delay. And I'm doing this just for the plugin thing, because I was feeling very comfortable with my old good MSVC6...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: iZenja on 2006-03-29 23:14:38
Quote
There will be 0.9 version. I'm in the process of switching from Visual Studio 6 to Visual Studio 2005 (required for compiling any 0.9 code) and this will mean some delay. And I'm doing this just for the plugin thing, because I was feeling very comfortable with my old good MSVC6...
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You won't regret switching to 2005. It's much better.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: fred_frno on 2006-04-02 17:36:21
I love this plugin ! too bad I discovered it only *after* I switched from v 0.8.3 to 0.9 ...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: broski on 2006-04-05 03:08:05
Quote
I love this plugin ! too bad I discovered it only *after* I switched from v 0.8.3 to 0.9 ...
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...same here, I'll just have to wait, thank you Chungalin for the extra work involved.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: falconfox on 2006-04-05 04:33:18
never knew about this plugin. i am excited to test it with my new shure e5c headphones!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: david_dl on 2006-04-05 05:33:10
Quote
Quote
There will be 0.9 version. I'm in the process of switching from Visual Studio 6 to Visual Studio 2005 (required for compiling any 0.9 code) and this will mean some delay. And I'm doing this just for the plugin thing, because I was feeling very comfortable with my old good MSVC6...
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You won't regret switching to 2005. It's much better.
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I wouldn't be so sure. IMHO the only improvement in VS8 is the intellisense, as well as improved template support in the compiler, but it is possible to set VC6 up to use the free release of vc2003 which is almost as good. And I can run a few instances of VC6 at the same time as a few other apps. With VS8 everything grinds to a halt (yes, I know, I need to upgrade my system...)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-04-23 00:55:37
Today I've started the port to 0.9. There're many subtle changes that have to be studied and applied to code. Some of them I think will simplify the plugin's code (for instance, now the native sample size is 32 bit float instead of 0.8x oversized 64 bit doubles, so no pre/post conversions needed). Now I'm trying to figure out what is the difference between cfg_var's and dsp_preset's, among a bunch of other things...

You'll stay informed.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-04-30 14:21:30
Just uploaded the updated plugin for 0.9.x at 3rd Party Plugins website. Sorry for the long delay guys, but here we take things easy. 

Works like before, except:
1) Settings are not applied "live", they're applied after pressing OK in config dialog box.
2) Changes on the DLL selection are applied on next foobar2000 start, so the first time you use the plugin you'll have to access the DSP Manager pane, set the DOLBYHPH.DLL location and restart foobar. Please note that the DLL location setting is not included in the DSP preset data.

The plugin is full channel-config aware (new feature in 0.9), from mono to 5.1, but it won't do anything if supplied with audio with channels beyond 5.1 (that's enough speakers!).

As always, please use this thread for any comments or bug reports.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: MrMuffin on 2006-05-01 00:31:02
Wow, I didn't realize the effect would be so drastic and so well done.  This is an excellent plugin; I may leave it on permanently.  Great work, and thanks for porting it to 0.9!

Now all you need to do is make a wrapper for a 5.1 DTS decoder! 
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-05-01 12:39:47
While testing this new version I tried to feed the plugin with output from Skipyrich (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showuser=13769)'s foo_channel_mixer (http://www.skipyrich.com/), since at that moment I didn't have any 5.1 AC3 file to test the plugin at its maximum capability. I tried upmixing normal Stereo stuff to 5.1 (using the included 5.1 profile). I couldn't say if it was better or just louder, but the overall effect was interesting.

I would like to hear opinions about this combination, if someone have the time an patience to test it. Theoreticaly DH should work well enough with a plain Stereo signal, but we all know that Dolby Headphone was specifically designed to recreate 5.1 stuff on headphones. Then it may seem logic that the DH-Engine should work better if supplied with 5.1 input.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: GeSomeone on 2006-05-01 14:07:18
While testing this new version I tried to feed the plugin with output from Skipyrich (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showuser=13769)'s foo_channel_mixer (http://www.skipyrich.com/)...


(execpt maybe for testing or for fun) it makes no sense to me to up-mix from 2 channels to 6 and then back to 2  .
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: prawns on 2006-05-01 14:24:42
I've just tried this plugin. Nice work, Chungalin.

(execpt maybe for testing or for fun) it makes no sense to me to up-mix from 2 channels to 6 and then back to 2  .
Give it a try...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: MrMuffin on 2006-05-01 23:32:40
After much work, I figured out how to encode my DTS CD copy of Sting & The Police's greatest hits album into  6 channel FLAC files.  The effect is pretty damn cool, and it sounds awesome through my Audio Technica A-900s.  Those 6 channel flac files chew up ALOT of cpu time decoding though, even on my Athlon 64 3400+ (clawhammer core with 1mb l2 cache), and some songs were actually skipping occasionally if I tried to run other programs.  I rencoded everything into Wavpack normal, and it was surprisingly MUCH smoother.  Average CPU usage went from ~37% (spikes in the 50s) with flac to ~21% (never >30) with Wavpack (and the files were actually slightly smaller).

I'm gonna have to go buy up some more of these DTS cds!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-05-05 00:33:35
I have version 1.2.0.222 of DolbyHph.dll. I think it came bundled with NVMixer (NVIDIA's audio mixer application). Works awesome.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Rogacz on 2006-05-05 23:18:56
Will it be possible to do something similar, but for X-Fi's CMSS-Headphone?

It would be great to add such plugin to DSP chain while converting some FLACs to MP3s, because now I cannot use CMSS power from my X-Fi card in my MP3 player.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-05-06 22:49:24
Haven't got into this CMSS-3D thing, first of all because I don't own a X-Fi soundcard. And somehow you've already said it all:

Quote
I cannot use CMSS power from my X-Fi card in my MP3 player.


Yes, because one can expect that CMSS algorithms are implemented in X-Fi hardware, at least in part. Otherwise, if all that signal processing was performed by software using your CPU, there would be little reasons to buy an expensive X-Fi soundcard, right?

If someone who has an X-Fi can prove that I'm wrong, and that the CMSS-3D Headphone process is made via software (drivers) instead of HW, then maybe I could consider the idea.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Rogacz on 2006-05-07 23:02:50
Ummm there is a Creative software bundled with the card that gives the user ability to "SuperRip" CD's with Crystalizer and / or CMSS-Headphone, so it's possible to use it to make a output file, but I can't do it the hard way (eg. run CMSS-HPH with some audio file and record results in some audio recording program - result will be plain, without processing).

I don't know, maybe SuperRipping is done by some driver port, or maybe CPU instead of card, but anyway - it could be possible to include in FB2k plugin.

I don't know if there is a single dll responsible for this effect as in dolby hph case.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: euphonic on 2006-05-12 21:10:47
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what ffdshow's similar "Virtual headphone spatialization", located at the bottom of the audio mixer speaker settings, is based on?

I'm not able to compare its effectiveness with the Dolby DLL, as I'm still using win9x, but the ffdshow one is (likewise?) very effective in getting sounds to come from outside of my cranium, without diluting the sound too much.

(On a daily basis in fb2k I've been using the Bauer plugin instead.)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: lextune on 2006-05-12 22:36:54
I am interested in trying this plugin out, but call me a total n00b, ......I can't figure out if I have the DOLBYHPH dll file.

I run WindowsXP Home SP2, do I have it? If not, can I find it/buy it? What's the deal?

Of course I'll NOT give any help about how to get that DLL.

Why?

<---n00b

(Again  )

If it was illegal for some reason I don't think Hydrogenaudio would allow it, so why will no help be given?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-05-13 03:44:46
Just use your computer's local search function and search for that file on your hard disks. If you find it, you're lucky.

Edit: I found a definite and legal download location for version 1.2.0.222 of the file. Download and install the NVIDIA PureVideo Decoder Platinum 30 day Trial (http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_decoder_1.02-223-trial.html). After the installation you will find the file in your system32 folder. Just copy the file to a save location and uninstall the software.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: MrMuffin on 2006-05-13 08:31:53
Alright, I may have found some insight as to what this thing actually does, with respect to regular stereo music. 

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/headphone_faq.html (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/headphone_faq.html)

The link above takes you to the Dobly Headphone FAQ.  In it, it explains that the DH engine ONLY accepts a 5.1 signal.  What happens when you give it a stereo (or less than 5.1 channels), is it runs the sound through the Dolby Prologic II engine and upmixes it to 5.1.  I have some 5.1 DTS cds which I encode into 6 channel wavpack files, and they sound VASTLY superior (they're absolutely amazing) to any stereo music file being run through the Dolby headphone engine, lossless or otherwise.  So I'm thinking this DLL has some kind of Prologic II encoder in it for stereo signals.

I tested this by adding the "Convert 5.1 to Stereo" DSP in front of the Dolby Headphone wrapper while playing one of my 5.1 surround music files, and the sound got significantly worse.  It sounded... fake?  Kinda plasticy, not sure how to describe it - but there was a very stark change in the sound itself and not just the posistioning/soundstage.  It seemed like the bass got alot boomier (like it was suddenly being run through a bad EQ with the lower freq's jacked up).  The main thing I found though, was that It sounded like just about all my 2 channel stereo music files do when played through the headphone wrapper.

I also tried running stereo music through the ATSurround 5.1 plugin to upmix the music to 5.1 (thus theoretically bypassing the prologic or whatever it is in the headphone dll) before going through the Dolby Headphone DLL, and it sounded alot different.  The boomy bass and extra volume instantly went away, and it sounded somewhat cleaner, although crossfeed alone still sounds ALOT better (alot of detail is lost through the ATSurround plugin I think).  But whether it sounded better or not isn't the point - the point is that when fed a 5.1 signal the headphone dll doesn't seem to add any extra bass or anything, but when it gets something in stereo the sound definitely gets some strange bass boosting.

Anyone with some really good headphone setup want to test a little further?  My Turtle Beach Santa Cruz is probibly holding me back alot...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: lextune on 2006-05-13 16:22:32
Just use your computer's local search function and search for that file on your hard disks. If you find it, you're lucky.

Edit: I found a definite and legal download location for version 1.2.0.222 of the file. Download and install the NVIDIA PureVideo Decoder Platinum 30 day Trial (http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_decoder_1.02-196-trial.html). After the installation you will find the file in your system32 folder. Just copy the file to a save location and uninstall the software.

Thanks for your efforts dude.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: atjs on 2006-05-13 18:46:58
I also tried running stereo music through the ATSurround 5.1 plugin to upmix the music to 5.1 (thus theoretically bypassing the prologic or whatever it is in the headphone dll) before going through the Dolby Headphone DLL, and it sounded alot different.  The boomy bass and extra volume instantly went away, and it sounded somewhat cleaner, although crossfeed alone still sounds ALOT better (alot of detail is lost through the ATSurround plugin I think).
Hi, I'm the author of ATSurround Processor. Just to help you guys along, ATSurround sounds cleaner because the audio is more focused towards the front channel (not because it throws away detail, please  ). The ATSurround+ASr mode follows the Pro Logic II specifications quite closely (but not entirely).

I've done quite a bit of testing myself on Dolby Headphone using a stereo input. It seems that DHP does not upmix stereo sources to 5 channels before running through the Headphone filters. It simply applies Headphone processing to the input as it is. That is, if the input was stereo, it would just assume the surround channels were mute. (There is no built-in surround matrix decoder/upmixer in DHP.)

So, if you wanted to simulate stereo=>5 channels on DHP, you need to first pass it through a surround matrix decoder, then pass the 5 channel audio to DHP. This can be confirmed by reading the DHP FAQ (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/headphone_faq.html) point #8.

Personally, I liked DHP, but didn't get exactly what I wanted to hear. The Headphone mode in ATSurround does 2=>5 channel decoding, then applying DHP-like filters (again, following DHP specifications quite closely, but not entirely), but without the echoey reverb. That represents my listening preference when using headphones.

Ultimately, you are the best judge of what you like to hear. So, when deciding what DSP chain or setup you want to use, trust your ears.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: deadfones on 2006-05-14 09:00:30
Can someone please put the 0.8.3 version up somewhere?

TIA
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: thuneau on 2006-07-03 05:20:29
I just wanted to express my gratitude to Chungalin for adding this great fuctionality to Foobar.
I have been ripping my CD's to wav files using itunes (for the proper artist/album/track names), processing them using the dolby DSP and a bit of EQ and then importing the processed waves back to itunes as AAC's for use in ipod. This has made the ipod listening experience with ear-canal phones (Sony MDR EX90) a very pleasant one. The low end feels right, there is a real sound stage and the sound is not thin and weak anymore.
I like the Dolby algorithm better than the AKG Hearo and 4front plugins.
The Hearo is also decent sounding, but has some weird artifacts that sound like clipping even with low level sounds. But, even if it didn't have any artifacts I still could not print its effect to file.
The Dolby DSP with Foobar solution is just great.
One nice side effect of using it is less of a need for volume in order to hear the mix properly. When everything is dry, I find myself turning up the volume in order to appreciate the recording. With the Dolby process, even at low volumes everything falls nicely in place. All portable players should come with a similar processor build in.

To Chungalin:
One little bug I discovered is that the conversion with Dolby DSP can not take place in the background during playback of the same file or there will be dropouts/hickups and they will get printed to the converted file. Maybe you could put some safeguards in place in the code so that the background processing does its thing regardless of what else Foobar is doing?
Thanks again.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-07-04 02:44:14
Thanks thuneau for your feedback.

Regarding the bug you report, yes, I was expecting this to happen (unfortunately). The point is that Dolby Headphone engine DLL is not multithread compatible. This means that only one stream of audio can be processed at a time for a given process that has loaded the DLL. Given the time shifts that Dolby Headphones introduces to signal, the DLL needs to use a small buffer to keep part of the previous input audio. Then the filter is not exactly 1:1 on every call. If you mix calls from different audio sources you will get a mess on output, since previously buffered samples from source A (play) are mixed with samples from source B (convert).

However I was expecting this to happen whenever concurrent play and convert with DH is performed, not only when a given file is being played/converted at the same time. I'll check it.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Peter L on 2006-08-15 14:16:26
I am delighted to find this wrapper.  For some time, I have wanted to encode my MP3s with Dolby Headphone and have them portable.  I use the Lake plugin in MusicMatch now, but that tethers me to a computer.

Now, the request for help.  The current version of FB2K seems to be 9.3.1.  However, the diskwriter plugin for WMA files is for version 8.2 (I think) and won't load, and the Nero plugin is just plain missing - the link is broken.  So the million-dollar question is: How do I re-record the encoded sound back to a WMA or  MP3 or some such file without conversion to analog and back to digital?

    Help for this newbie will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks
        -Peter
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Peter L on 2006-08-16 03:07:33
Same newbie again.  I got it licked - apparantly, Conversion is the new name for playing, applying DSP, and saving the output.  Hence, diskwriter wasn't ported.

Beautiful plugin, beautiful platform.  Gave me what I wanted, and it allowed me to convert my whole library in  one operation, keeping artist\album\title directory structures  My thanks to all.  Now just one problem.  I recorded all of my CDs to MP3s in a lossy manner.  Now, I have to go back and re-rip them all losslessly to the hard drive and then convert to MP3 with the Dolby Headphone DSP active.  Sigh.  I guess that I will be here a while.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: mkeroppi on 2006-09-15 06:59:59
Thanks! This is great. Dolby Headphone is the only satisfactory way to play "for speaker mixes" on the the ER-4B. I'd like to use Dolby Headphone as VST to check mixes for speaker when I'm mixing on the ER-4B. Is there any chance for a port or releasing the protocol?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: greekgoddj on 2006-10-27 11:34:10
Hello,

Would like to say you have done a great job on this wrapper.

Aristotel
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-11-18 13:47:13
For those who where asking here, a Dolby Headphone wrapper VST plugin has been just released. The plugin is available for download at Tasty Mousakas (http://tasty.mousakas.googlepages.com/) website.

Thanks Tasty Mousakas for following the spirit of independent Dolby Headphone wrapping that I started here. I whish there would be more efficient people like him to spread DH usage in other audio platforms.

I have vague plans to develop an independent DirectShow filter to wrap DH, but starting in DirectShow requires discipline and a lot of time. I can make no promises, but I really miss DH inside BSplay, for instance.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-11-19 03:16:42
It doesn't work for me. In Cubase all it does is to mute the sound. Maybe it's incompatible with my version of DolbyHph.dll (1.2.0.222).
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: greekgoddj on 2006-11-19 13:00:02
It doesn't work for me. In Cubase all it does is to mute the sound. Maybe it's incompatible with my version of DolbyHph.dll (1.2.0.222).


I got it to work in Bidule (www.plogue.com) no problem. I did you move the DOLBYHPH.DLL to the "System32" folder as mentioned on the website?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-11-19 13:10:03
Yes, the file was already there. But I also tried it by putting the file in the same folder as the plugin.

Edit: I tested the plugin in Bidule and it worked. So it seems to be incompatible with Cubase. That's somehow like a webpage being incompatible with Internet Explorer.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: greekgoddj on 2006-11-19 13:57:29
Yes, the file was already there. But I also tried it by putting the file in the same folder as the plugin.


I also have version 1.2.0.222 of the dll. It also works with Audiomulch (www.audiomulch.com). I don't have Cubase to try it on. Anybody else does?

That's somehow like a webpage being incompatible with Internet Explorer.


If only Microsoft would comply with the web standards
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Kblood on 2006-11-29 10:22:10
Hello,

The original website seems to be down (at least for me). Can anybody post the foo_dsp_dolbyhp.dll file somewhere else? Or email it to me? For Foobar2000 0.9x, of course.

Thanks!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-12-01 01:01:23
Kblood and all others, I've uploaded the latest version here (http://storeandserve.com/download/616543/foo_dsp_dolbyhp.zip.html). Functionally it's the same as previously available from 3rd party plugins website but it has enabled the DLL path textbox. This way it's possible to manually enter relative paths, but now it's also possible to do some mistakes.

I hope this server failure is just temporary, because that is/was a very nice site to centralize all the fb2k plugins.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Kblood on 2006-12-01 05:21:53
Thanks a lot!!!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: saberrider on 2006-12-01 22:38:53
I use that component with version 1.2.0.222 of the DLL and this component is propably the one and only dsp component that's really worth using for everyone. My Sennheiser HD485 already sounded great but with this add-on it's another dimension of quality. Music suddenly sounds so natural and full. Thank you very much for that idea and the execution. I've been listening to records I haven't been listening for a long while because of that component. It totally rocks!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Spirit_of_the_ocean on 2006-12-01 23:17:47

Just use your computer's local search function and search for that file on your hard disks. If you find it, you're lucky.

Edit: I found a definite and legal download location for version 1.2.0.222 of the file. Download and install the NVIDIA PureVideo Decoder Platinum 30 day Trial (http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_decoder_1.02-196-trial.html). After the installation you will find the file in your system32 folder. Just copy the file to a save location and uninstall the software.

Thanks for your efforts dude.



When I want to install they want a code for the bought produkt 
So this doesn't work

One Question in VLC there is also a special audio filter for Headphones.Is this similar to the DolbyHPH.dll ?

EDIT: I found this link which seems to offer the .dll legal for free
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-12-02 13:27:23
Thanks saberrider. As always, 99% of the credit goes to Dolby and Lake for researching and developing the math and physics behind this incredible sound processing.

Of course it all depends on tastes, after all. You'll find other headphone enthusiasts that prefer a lighter crossfeed, others say DH alters audio too much. For me it's essential for listening to music through headphones. I feel happy if at least 1% of the 11600 people who have downloaded the plugin so far think the same as me.

I've been asked to do the same with Dolby Virtual Speakers (5.1 to 2 speakers virtualization). Is anyone out there interested in using this kind of stuff? Not me, but...

By the way, 3rd party plugin website is running again. I won't remove the link above, in the case someone else needs the path edit feature.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-03 01:43:07
Man, this is a great DSP. Any chance to get a winamp version of this? As it is, I'll be converting the files so I can listen to them in Winamp with Milkdrop, tedious to do that every time but it could be worth it.

Someday they'll be native Milkdrop for foobar...

edit: by the way, a lot of stereo sources sound great on this. Tool - 10,000 Days sounds fantastic, it moves the sound field out of your head and really makes it interesting. Some stuff though, like Nine Inch Nails - With Teeth, sounds absolutely terrible. About With Teeth though, I tried the 5.1 version (the AC3..not the DVDA) with the default downmix (no DSP), with DHP, and the stereo version with and without DHP. I'd say in order from best to worst, 5.1 w/dhp, stereo, 5.1 w/o dph, stereo w/dhp. I also watched Vanilla Sky, The Wall, and Queens of the Stone Age - Over the Hills and Through the Woods with this (well, in PowerDVD) which are all 5.1 sources and they sound fantastic. Man, I can't quit raving about this, I love it. I fell in love with Pro Logic II last year when I got a new amp...and I'm falling in love with DHP. Is there anything Dolby can't do??
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-03 14:49:32
You should upmix stereo material to at least 4 channels before feeding it into the plugin. I use the "Convert Stereo to 4 channels" plugin and set the volume to 50% in the settings of the "Dolby Headphone" plugin to compensate for the doubled volume which would otherwise cause severe distortion. That gives me best results. Upmixing the signal to 5.1 channels via the "Channel Mixer" plugin did not yield better results.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-12-03 18:53:05
It has already been discused about the convenience to upmix stereo material to more channels before feeding it to DH. Some consider it redundant since it has to be downmixed again to stereo. Theoreticaly it should not be necessary, but think for a moment on how DH does its work. Do you think they have coded a different algorithm to optimaly handle every possible combination of input channels that it can actually accept? No. They coded a 5.1 to 2 algorithm that is very good, and that is what we like. What is questionable is, what do they do when there're missing channels? I think they just do like it was silence on that channel.

And here is where things can be improved. If those of you who have 5.1 speakers prefer some kind of upmix to listen stereo material, then the same can be applied with DH. Just think as if you had a physical 5.1 system, optimize it... and then put DH at the end. For me it's that easy!

For Stereo stuff I place in front of DHW Skipyrich's Channel Mixer plugin with:

Mode: Upmix
Center: 0.75
Subwoofer: 0.00 (or disable subwoofer)
Rear in front: 0.00 (of course)
Rear, Volume: 1.00, Front in rear: 0.30

Reducing the internal volume to less than 100% is not recommended, since it reduces dynamic range. If the volume is too loud or not it will depend on your output settings (DAC, amp...), but in any case DH should not generate distortion by itself if input is not clipped. Then with a 5.1 input it would have 6x volume?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-03 19:27:54
I agree with Hancoque. Stereo to 4 channels --> Dolby Headphone is very very good. Interestingly, stereo to 5.1 --> Dolby Headphone sounds EXACTLY the same as Dolby Headphone by itself.

I do get a volume increase with the stereo to 4 channels plugin, but absolutely no clipping. Perhaps it's because I have replaygain turned on? I tried some loud albums (Mezmerize, -11.86) and quiet ones (The Wall, +1.41) and there was absolutely no clipping.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-04 00:44:46
I think they just do like it was silence on that channel.
Exactly. That's why it sounds so strange when only two channels (stereo) serve as input. It's because there is missing at least half the "room information". If you feed the plugin a stereo signal it's like everything is coming from the front, because the 2 stereo channels only connect to the 2 front input channels of the virtual 5.1 system. The 2 rear input channels remain unconnected.

The problem is that a (virtual) room sounds different if you hear everything only from the front than if you hear everything from both the front and the rear. The latter positions everything in the middle of the room (where you are) and not at the "walls" where the (virtual) front speakers reside. That's what should cause the audible difference between 2 and 4 channel input and that's why 4 channel input should yield a better listening experience than 2 channel input, because the virtual room acoustics are better utilized.

Reducing the internal volume to less than 100% is not recommended, since it reduces dynamic range.
I know, but since I have no separate volume plugin, this was a convenient way to do it. Additionally, if the signal would be properly processed as 32-bit Float that should not be a real problem. But in fact the "Dolby Headphone" plugin does clip the material even if the output is set to 32-bit Float, so I assume that it works in integer mode, which could indeed have a considerable impact on the dynamic range then.

If the volume is too loud or not it will depend on your output settings (DAC, amp...), but in any case DH should not generate distortion by itself if input is not clipped. Then with a 5.1 input it would have 6x volume?
I do get a volume increase with the stereo to 4 channels plugin, but absolutely no clipping. Perhaps it's because I have replaygain turned on? I tried some loud albums (Mezmerize, -11.86) and quiet ones (The Wall, +1.41) and there was absolutely no clipping.
Just look at the picture:

(http://www.devir.de/temp/dolby.png)

That is a short section of a track that is fed into the "Dolby Headphone" plugin. The DSP chain consists only of the "Convert stereo to 4 channels" and the "Dolby Headphone" plugin. The red line shows the signal with the volume set to 100% in the "Dolby Headphone" plugin settings. The green line shows the same signal with the volume reduced to 50%. The red signal is clearly clipped while the green is not.

If the "Dolby Headphone" plugin would properly support 32-bit Float there shouldn't be any clipping visible in the image but the volume should rise above the 0 dB line where the clipped areas are. In that case lowering the player's output volume could prevent any clipping at playback.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-12-04 02:19:57
Very interesting and clarifying experiment.

The truth is that the plugin works with 32 bit floats, no conversion is made since DH DLL can work with both formats (integer and float). Which version of the DOLBYHPH.DLL are you using?

In fact there's a flag possibly related to clipping inside DH configuration, but for some reason I thought this setting wasn't important in user interface. I left it activated, just like all inspected apps did (PowerDVD, WinDVD). I'll make it "visible" so you can play with it an show us more useful wave comparisons like this.

Another strange point is that I cannot really notice volume difference between using "Convert stereo to 4 channels" and not using it. However I do notice that volume boost when using Channel Mixer.

By the way, I've just seen that a german guy has released a new plugin wrapper for Dolby Pro Logic II PL2XDLL.DLL. Maybe this has something to add to current discussion.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-04 10:25:53
Which version of the DOLBYHPH.DLL are you using?
I'm using version 1.2.0.222 which you can get here (http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_decoder_1.02-223-trial.html).

By the way, I've just seen that a german guy has released a new plugin wrapper for Dolby Pro Logic II PL2XDLL.DLL. Maybe this has something to add to current discussion.
I'd like to try that. Does anyone know a legal download location for the DLL? Maybe some trial DVD player software?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Andreasvb on 2006-12-04 10:29:14
For PL2XDLL.dll, you can download PowerDVD, it's in the AudioFilter folder when you've installed it.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-04 13:51:26
Thanks, that worked.

PowerDVD also has an oldernewer version (1.10.0.270) of the "DolbyHph.dll". That version also produces clipping. So the version cannot be the cause of the problem.

Then I replaced the "Convert stereo to 4 channels" plugin by the "Dolby Pro Logic II" plugin (volume set to 100%). There is absolutely no clipping but it sounds very different.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-12-04 18:35:03
OK, but have in mind that 1.10.0.270 is *not* older than your 1.02.0.222  . This is a tricky point about how version numbers are represented sometimes. Look at file Properties, Version, File Version on both files for a clearer (and more comparable) representation.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-04 18:55:48
Oh, you're right. Stupid me.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-12-05 01:34:04
Hancoque, here you have a test version with checkbox for enabling/disabling Dynamic compression. Note that until now it was always in enabled state, like did PowerDVD and WinDVD.

Test version (http://storeandserve.com/download/625598/foo_dsp_dolbyhp_1_1_1.zip.html)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-05 09:01:40
Chungalin, could you please elaborate on what that fix does please?

edit: Hancoque, I don't know if you noticed but you're losing a bit of dynamic range when you turn the plugin volume down to 50%. On that green wave, the highs are a bit lower, and the lows are a bit higher. Hmm...

edit2: Ok, I figured it out. Replaygain is the trick. I converted (from FLAC) two files: the first was just converted to 4 channels and then Dolby Headphones. Cooledit Pro reports 13990 and 13537 possibly clipped samples in the left and right channels, respectively. The other file was also 4 channels and Dolby Headphones, BUT I added replaygain (album mode). This file has 0 clipped samples (same as the original file). In the Dolby Headphone config, the volume was set to 100% at all times. This leads me to believe that Foobar applies RG then applies DSP. This might be common knowledge but it's the first I've heard of it. Anyway, since you're obviously having clipping problems, there is your solution
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-05 11:58:24
@Chungalin: I will check it out later today.

@hushypushy: I think that will only help if the material's volume is reduced by at least 6 dB. Otherwise there could still be clipping. And by the way: Wouldn't applying ReplayGain have the same impact on dynamic range as lowering the volume in the DSP chain?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-12-05 13:55:36
This version is not a fix, it just shows a new control in configuration panel that allows to enable/disable a parameter inside DH processor that I still don't know precisely what it does. It seems to affect volume and once I noticed that when it wasn't enabled it produced samples out of range (while in float mode). Under Foobar I set float mode with a range of 1.000 (-1...+1). Under PowerDVD I saw that it did set a range of 0.99999. Could this be significative?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Morfeus on 2006-12-05 17:32:34
It produces some weird sound, but it doesn't matter... i don't use it
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-05 23:41:36
@hushypushy: I think that will only help if the material's volume is reduced by at least 6 dB. Otherwise there could still be clipping. And by the way: Wouldn't applying ReplayGain have the same impact on dynamic range as lowering the volume in the DSP chain?


Hmm, this is true, but then the same goes for any software volume changes, yeah? Optimally, you'd want to keep the software at 100% everywhere and change the volume with your speakers.

Anyway, RG offers customized gain changes, so each file will be affected differently with regards to dynamic range, whereas setting the internal volume setting will affect each file in a static way, some worse than others. I suppose that the files that are closest to 89dB (smallest RG value, either positive or negative) will remain the most faithful to the original files?

One last thing, from http://replaygain.hydrogenaudio.org/faq_noise.html (http://replaygain.hydrogenaudio.org/faq_noise.html:):

Quote
But in reality, a consistent replay level (an advantage which EVERYONE can appreciate) will outweigh the problems of digitally scaling the data (which is a problem that 0.01% of listeners are going to notice).
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-06 03:29:30
I have made a new graphical comparison. This time not only between 50% and 100% volume but also between "Clipping" activated and deactivated.

(http://www.devir.de/temp/dolby2.png)

As you can see, clipping occured only with "Clipping" deactivated and 100% volume. But if "Clipping" in fact enables dynamic compression, wouldn't it be better to deactivate it?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-06 07:08:37
But if "Clipping" in fact enables dynamic compression, wouldn't it be better to deactivate it?


Aren't you asking to choose between clipping and dynamic range? 

With consideration, it seems that it's okay to lose a bit of dynamic range (whether it be via the plugin or via RG or whatever) than to gain a ton of clipping (as both of our tests show happens).

I want to try it with that new PLII DSP but I can't find the DLL

edit: Just did a couple of tests with PLII and DHP...I like the stereo to 4 channel --> DHP much more than PLII --> DHP. Although, having spent way too much time listening to music on a 5.1 system with PLII, I can see why I like the PLII to headphone effect much less than just a doubling of the stereo sound, so let's see if I can explain it...well, using the 4 channel converter, it just makes a big sound field, and listening to a stereo source like this gives me the impression that I'm sitting directly between two large speakers. Using PLII though, it just doesn't feel...right. It feels kind of cheap, and tinny. When I listen to PLII on 5.1, I really enjoy it because it preserves good front stereo sound, moving some things like vocals and solos to the center, and moving extra tidbits or layers to the back. What I'm trying to say is, for my tastes, PLII is much better suited to real 5.1, whereas Dolby Headphone is useful for creating an "out of head" sound field which, IMO, works best with dual stereo.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2006-12-06 10:35:10
Quote
edit: Just did a couple of tests with PLII and DHP...I like the stereo to 4 channel --> DHP much more than PLII --> DHP. Although, having spent way too much time listening to music on a 5.1 system with PLII, I can see why I like the PLII to headphone effect much less than just a doubling of the stereo sound, so let's see if I can explain it...well, using the 4 channel converter, it just makes a big sound field, and listening to a stereo source like this gives me the impression that I'm sitting directly between two large speakers. Using PLII though, it just doesn't feel...right. It feels kind of cheap, and tinny. When I listen to PLII on 5.1, I really enjoy it because it preserves good front stereo sound, moving some things like vocals and solos to the center, and moving extra tidbits or layers to the back. What I'm trying to say is, for my tastes, PLII is much better suited to real 5.1, whereas Dolby Headphone is useful for creating an "out of head" sound field which, IMO, works best with dual stereo.


So you successfully got me into this thread, hushypushy
Well, I see two possible reasons for this:
1. 4ch mixer is louder, especially the bass since that gets played on 4 virtual speakers instead of 2 (the front speakers) as with  DPL2. Maybe one should compare both modes with replaygain enabled (e.g. by converting a track 2 times, once with each dsp settings).

2. Maybe you don't expect to get "real" surround with Dolby Headphone, since you don't know where the speakers are. Actually it can do much more than just "out-of-head", because it can produce things like "left behind you". Have you played the channeltest.mp3 (on my site)? For me its sounds very much like the recommended home theatre setup with rear speakers about 10-20 degrees behind you.

Given these 2 things it comes down to this (in my eyes):
Do you like the same music more if you get 2 times the bass?
If I want more bass or more volume, I turn it up. But if I want to hear the audience shouting behind my perceived back, I cannot get around PL2 (or anything like it).

So please try it again!
Btw: I had the surround channels at 75% volume because for my taste there was way too much action in the rear speakers. Didn't expect that it could be vice versa. Just changed this, so you might redownload if you wish.

Have to go to work now!

Christian
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-06 14:00:22
Aren't you asking to choose between clipping and dynamic range? 

With consideration, it seems that it's okay to lose a bit of dynamic range (whether it be via the plugin or via RG or whatever) than to gain a ton of clipping (as both of our tests show happens).
I think that lowering the volume by 6 dB (to 50%) is okay if you can get rid of any compression (and clipping) in exchange. If processing takes place in 32-bit Float then it shouldn't really be an issue.

edit: Just did a couple of tests with PLII and DHP...I like the stereo to 4 channel --> DHP much more than PLII --> DHP.
Yes, I can second that. While the PL2 plugin produces a wider soundstage the sound also becomes kind of tinny. The PL2 plugin may be a superb plugin to get stereo sound to a real 5.1 system (which I can't test because I only have 2 speakers) but in combination with the DHP plugin it just doesn't feel right. Maybe it's a question of settings in the PL2 plugin (to which users currently have no access).

2. Maybe you don't expect to get "real" surround with Dolby Headphone, since you don't know where the speakers are. Actually it can do much more than just "out-of-head", because it can produce things like "left behind you".
Can it really? After all you only have two channels as input (2.0 -> 5.1 with the PL2 plugin) and two channels as output (5.1 -> 2.0 with the DHP plugin). How can you have something "behind you" if there is neither "behind"-information in the source material nor any physical "behind"-information in the two output channels?

Btw: I had the surround channels at 75% volume because for my taste there was way too much action in the rear speakers. Didn't expect that it could be vice versa. Just changed this, so you might redownload if you wish.
It would be great if you could make as most settings available to the user as possible. That way one would be able to tweak the plugin for an optimal use. After all I believe that a professional upmixing algorithm like Dolby Pro Logic II has to have some advantages over mere channel doubling. But at the current state of the plugin I cannot say that I really like the sound it produces.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2006-12-06 17:22:51
Thanks Hancoque for taking your time to make these illustrative graphics. Let's analyze them carefully.

First of all, I've labeled the effect as "Clipping" because I didn't know exactly what it did. But now we can clearly see a non-linear behaviour in the blue wave that reveals a dynamic compression at work. The peaks are flattened as they get close to the "danger zone", which becomes a highly non-linear zone. We must not confuse this with plain clipping that is just (simplifying) "if (x > boundary) then x = boundary". I've changed the checkbox label to "Dynamic compression" in order to avoid confussion.

The problem with any downmixing from many channels to a single one is the balance between clipping and attenuation. The most elementary downmix formula:

(Ch 1 + Ch 2 + ... Ch n) / n

yields a result that never clips but has poor dynamic range unless all channels are fully utilized. If you reduce the divisor then volume rises, but somewhere-sometime you can get out of boundaries. The sum (mix) of n channels each one of m bits requires m+log2(n) bits in order to preserve all the information.

It has some sense that Dolby wanted a compromise between the two options adding dynamic compression. Now, what do you prefer, clipping or non-linear fuller sound?

Personally, I don't like non-linear processes for audio. From my point of view, my aim will be: upmix stereo to 4 or 5 channels in a predictable way, try to keep away of dynamic compression and set an amplification level that doesn't clip in loudest passages.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-06 19:18:21
So you successfully got me into this thread, hushypushy
Well, I see two possible reasons for this:
1. 4ch mixer is louder, especially the bass since that gets played on 4 virtual speakers instead of 2 (the front speakers) as with  DPL2. Maybe one should compare both modes with replaygain enabled (e.g. by converting a track 2 times, once with each dsp settings).

2. Maybe you don't expect to get "real" surround with Dolby Headphone, since you don't know where the speakers are. Actually it can do much more than just "out-of-head", because it can produce things like "left behind you". Have you played the channeltest.mp3 (on my site)? For me its sounds very much like the recommended home theatre setup with rear speakers about 10-20 degrees behind you.

Given these 2 things it comes down to this (in my eyes):
Do you like the same music more if you get 2 times the bass?
If I want more bass or more volume, I turn it up. But if I want to hear the audience shouting behind my perceived back, I cannot get around PL2 (or anything like it).


I've tested a bunch of songs up till now, and PL2 has won none of them. 4 chan -> DHP has won most, and no DSP has won a few. It's not up to loudness or extra bass, I can assure you. But I also made a test where I RG gained a FLAC file, then outputted each file with the different DSP, then RG'd those, and then tested them. I'm not disappointed in the surround aspect or the soundstage---it reminds me a bit of listening to my 5.1 system. However, it feels like I have my ears in tubes and there are speakers in the end of those; the music has this weird tinny feeling to it, I'll post samples if this doesn't make sense.

I tried the channeltest, and it reproduced surround. I saw the fronts in the fronts and the rears on the side/rear of me, which is the optimum surround setup, yeah? It seems to be a bit more evidence that both PL2 and DHP work (by doing 2.0-->5.1 then back to 2.0), but unfortunately, quite a bit of fidelity is lost.

I don't have 5.1 speakers on my computer, so I can't test out PL2 in its proper form. But I'm wondering, why the lack of configuration? I'm guessing that it just hasn't been implemented yet (or is perhaps impossible). In cheaper amps, there is at least the "Game", "Movie", and "Music" mode, and in nicer amps they actually let you set the parameters. Is there any way that can be implemented in this wrapper? A feature request if I could--a dialog box that simply asks you to select where the DLL file exists.

Quote
Can it really? After all you only have two channels as input (2.0 -> 5.1 with the PL2 plugin) and two channels as output (5.1 -> 2.0 with the DHP plugin). How can you have something "behind you" if there is neither "behind"-information in the source material nor any physical "behind"-information in the two output channels?


You missed an important note--when it does convert to 5.1, there is some rear speaker info, and then DHP processes that. It's a subtle effect though (most of the time), and from what I've read, that's what they were going for when they created it. So in that aspect, it sometimes falls short, it is a matrix after all. Listening to, for example, Dark Side of the Moon not a good idea (especially when quad/5.1 versions exist), but listening to 10,000 Days is excellent.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2006-12-06 20:40:46
Quote
Can it really? After all you only have two channels as input (2.0 -> 5.1 with the PL2 plugin) and two channels as output (5.1 -> 2.0 with the DHP plugin). How can you have something "behind you" if there is neither "behind"-information in the source material nor any physical "behind"-information in the two output channels?


Yes, it can. If the source is encoded in Dolby Stereo (which exist since ~1970).
For each sound source you determine where it is, relative to the listener, along 2 major axes:
left <-> right and center <-> rear.  Then, it's encoded like this (taken from wikipedia):
Left Total  = Left*1.000 + Right*0.000 + Center*0.707 + RearLeft*j*0.8165 + RearRight*j*0.5774
Right Total  = Left*0.000 + Right*1.000 + Center*0.707 + RearLeft*k*0.5774 + RearRight*k*0.8165
j = + 90º phase-shift , k = - 90º phase-shift

Its hard to get the original directions back from Left Total / Right Total, but its possible (with some assumptions such as relative stability of locations/frequencies over time and limited number of separable sources - probably up to 4).

This is your "behind" information in the source.

So where is the behind information in the output? Well, how can you determine if anything is behind you if your brain gets only two streams of audio (left ear+right ear)?
It can do this *only* because the sound coming from behind you sounds differently from sound coming from infront of you. That works because sound either gets blocked or reflected by your earlobes.
Cut them off and you loose your spatial information. This difference can be recorded and reproduced electronically. Listen to the samples at http://binaural.jimtreats.com/ (http://binaural.jimtreats.com/)

This is your "behind" information in the output.


Quote
It would be great if you could make as most settings available to the user as possible. That way one would be able to tweak the plugin for an optimal use. After all I believe that a professional upmixing algorithm like Dolby Pro Logic II has to have some advantages over mere channel doubling. But at the current state of the plugin I cannot say that I really like the sound it produces.


Yeah, I'd like to add a separate volume control for each channel (I think this would be the most important thing - if no other plugin like channel mixer can do this), but doing all this GUI c*** is what I hate most about software development and I need a bit free time for that.
The second possible option is "music mode" versus "movie mode". Its in music mode by default, b/c movie mode makes not much sense within a music player, I think.
And I believe that this implementation doesn't have any more advanced options like "center width" and "dimension" like some more expensive A/V receivers have.
If you find any software player that supports this in its PL2 implementation then tell me please (I'm interested).

Quote
I've tested a bunch of songs up till now, and PL2 has won none of them. 4 chan -> DHP has won most, and no DSP has won a few. It's not up to loudness or extra bass, I can assure you. But I also made a test where I RG gained a FLAC file, then outputted each file with the different DSP, then RG'd those, and then tested them. I'm not disappointed in the surround aspect or the soundstage---it reminds me a bit of listening to my 5.1 system. However, it feels like I have my ears in tubes and there are speakers in the end of those; the music has this weird tinny feeling to it, I'll post samples if this doesn't make sense.


I believe you, although I cannot second that in general. But I'd definitely like to hear a few of those samples.
I found some stuff that sounds equally good, e.g. Dover, Coldplay, some others.
And some cinematic soundtracks like Once Upon A Time In Mexico (especially) or Gladiator seem to sound better with DPL2.

But I think I have understood what you mean by tinny. Since I use PL2 in exactly the same way as the Program that ships the DLL I suspect that this is an inherent problem of the combination of DPL2 and the virtual speakers present in Dolby Headphone. I am confident that I can solve that by equalization, though.

Christian
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2006-12-06 22:41:44
Okay, I think you're right about the "behind" information. But how often do you encounter music that contains an embedded surround signal? Isn't most music on a CD saved in plain stereo?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2006-12-06 23:21:42
Quote
Okay, I think you're right about the "behind" information. But how often do you encounter music that contains an embedded surround signal? Isn't most music on a CD saved in plain stereo?

That's hard to tell. Depends mostly on the recording studio/engineers, I would say.
Since you don't loose anything by encoding to Dolby Stereo (except that the surround channels cancel each other out when played on a mono device), some studios add it for free. E.g. some of my Uncle's songs (a Berlin Indie Artist) were recorded with explicit surround information and he didn't even know.
A few Artists/Bands which I know of who produced surround recordings include Jeff Beck, Nine Inch Nails, Andrea Parker, Autechre, Robert Plant, Will Smith, Shakira, Fear Factory, Queens Of The Stone Age, Dover, Cog, Rage Against The Machine, David Bowie, Skinny Puppy, Failure,  Incubus, Tool, Tito & Tarantula, ....
I just confirmed that list by putting PL2 in the Movie mode (which means something like "strict with no guessing") and turning off the front speakers.

And of course most movie Soundtracks.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-07 02:07:51
Whoa whoa whoa, I'd love to see some source information on that, because I've never heard that any albums were mastered with embedded surround. Like NIN, QOTSA, RATM, Tool made albums that have matrixed surround information? Are you just saying that because they end up with a lot of rear info? Or because somewhere actually says that they were mastered that way?

edit: here is a quick sample of a song that I think sounds great with 4chan-->DHP and crappy with PL2-->DHP. It's the first 30 seconds of Jambi by Tool (I can only UL 30 seconds, right?). Especially listen to the vocals, but also how it sounds so airy and tinny. The file was first ReplayGained at -7.27dB, then each one was put through a DSP chain consisting of either 4chan-->DHP or PL2-->DHP only.

http://hushy.flaretech.net/music/jambi.rar (http://hushy.flaretech.net/music/jambi.rar)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2006-12-08 00:25:23
Whoa whoa whoa, I'd love to see some source information on that, because I've never heard that any albums were mastered with embedded surround. Like NIN, QOTSA, RATM, Tool made albums that have matrixed surround information? Are you just saying that because they end up with a lot of rear info? Or because somewhere actually says that they were mastered that way?


You guessed right, the source of this info is my harddisk. So, if I had a digital camera I could send you a pic of my source, but I don't ;-)
Ok, all jokes aside, I fully understand your suspiciousness. I called a few names just based on the fact that some of their albums contain a lot of "action" in the surround channels. I guess I was a bit quick with that, so I spent much time today just to find out that a lot of this is just crosstalk or sound leakage.
In plain stereo recordings you typically get a garbled, bandpass-filtered copy of the fronts in the surround channels.
Good examples of this are e.g. Subway To Sally - nearly every album, Lord Of The Dance, Led Zeppelin, The Doors, Blind Guardian, John Lee Hooker, Joe Satriani, Vanessa Mae, Sean Paul - Get Busy etc.

But there are some counter-examples. Let's start with mainstream music. Take for example Alicia Keys - The Diary Of Alicia Keys. In about 1/3rd of the tracks you get
the entire background chorus in the rear speakers. While not much of the rest of the song is audible there (below 10-20% of the front volume). Its like some kind of
duet between her (mostly in the center) and the background singers (in the surrounds, but also L/R). So here it's obvious that someone put part of the song into the surround channel.
The same pattern can be seen with Black Eyed Peas - Elephunk.
Then there are cases where the entire song (including lead singer) is replicated at slightly lower volume into the surrounds, e.g. Christina Aguilera - The Voice Within. The surround actually morphs from just echo to
a full front copy over the duration of the song.
You sometimes find multiple echoes of the main voice in the surrounds while in other cases you have just the voice, only at a lower volume.
Compare e.g. the first half of the aforementioned song by Christina Aguilera (echo) to Natural - What if (copy of the lead voice at lower level)
and to BEP feat. Justin Timberlake - Where is the love (voice nearly inaudible).
So that echo effect is most likely not an artifact of DPL2 or of some natural phase effects of echoes but deliberately applied. Although I was quite surprised about how easily DPL2 gets confused and puts something into the rear channel. 2 independently positioned front sources seem to be enough under some circumstances.
Rage Agains The Machine - Renegades is a example of an album with most of the guitars in the surrounds.
(e.g. Kick Out The Jams) And the interesting thing is that they are centered. So they wouldn't be there if they weren't phase-inverted, because the basic surround info comes from Left - Right (which would cancel each other out). And I think it's highly unlikely that someone accidentally inverts the polarity of exactly one channel (either left or right) of the guitars. Now compare this with the life recordings on the same album.
In these, you have generally a much lower surround level and the surround is mostly a mixture of the other channels (again like the garbled copy that I mentioned before).
Probably an even better example is Fear Factory - Remanufacture. Here it's again mostly guitars, industrial sounds and ambient effects that end up in the surround channel. And they are louder than the fronts. So it can't be crosstalk by definition.
Next example: Snake River Conspiracy - Sonic Jihad. Here the surrounds sometimes play completely complementary stuff to what the front speakers do.
In Chemical Brothers - Push The Button you find some front/back fading, echoes, various ambient sounds, but again its not 100% clear that this is not just DPL2 going mad (but its unlikely).
Though, I was wrong with QOTSA and Robert Plant. There it's not more than crosstalk or maybe just replicated front channels. Hope that were enough examples for now.

I created a tool for you to check that for yourself, with your headphones. It sends the music through PL2, rotates the soundfield by 90° so that you get the L,C,R channels to your left and the SL, SR channels to your right side.
Since you want to measure front/back and not center/off-center, the center speaker is attenuated by the factor 0.66.
As a last step, the stereo separation (between your left and right ear) is increased by a factor of 0.3.

If anyone finds it useful it might get embedded into a later version of the foo_dsp_pl2 plugin.
Currently it's call foo_dsp_pl2-featuretest.dll and its available on http://hosted.filefront.com/prooptimizer/ (http://hosted.filefront.com/prooptimizer/)
Since the output of this is basically stereo, you can chain it with the stereo->4 channel upmix and DH to get more volume or less fatigue...

Christian
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-08 06:23:36
Very interesting...I will mess with this.

By the way, a good album I like to hear on my amp + "real" PL2 is Tool - 10,000 Days. Wings for Marie/10,000 Days has a whole lot going on in the back.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2006-12-09 00:25:11
Hi folks,

I was just thinking about how PL2 works when it struck me that it cannot really work. At least not with music.
The problem with Dolby Surround is in how the information is encoded:
Most of us know that PL2 uses the relative phase information of the signals.
If you hate maths or geometry you can directly jump to the paragraph starting with BUT ;-)

Whether it does this by calculating L-R and L+R and comparing that somehow or by calculating the Fourier Transform of L and R plays no role:
For each time window consisting of n samples you cannot get more than n/2 amplitudes and phases angles (one for each frequency component).
So you get this info both for Left Total and Right Total.
Now you can (for each frequency component)
  a) compare the amplitudes between L and R, i.e. whether the signal is rather left or right.
  b) compare the phase angles between L and R
    0 degrees angular difference would mean that the signal is completely in front.
    180 degrees angular difference (i.e. the flipped wave) means that the signal is completely behind.
    Anything in between will be somewhere in between (front/back-wise)
    Compare this with the PL2 mixing matrix (bottom of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic))
   
So for each of the frequency components (say 512) in your time window you get these 2 numbers which can each be put into the range (-1 to +1).
Then you can plot these 512 points into a 2-dimensional plane and directly see where the sound sources should be located - relative to the listener
which is at (0,0).
         
If you colored the dots according to their frequency you have not lost a single bit of information, so you can fully reconstruct the original signal from this representation.
But you can also send each dot (or better its corresponding sine wave) to the nearest speakers and get surround.
Note that this is just the mathematical mapping of the surround information (as specified by Dolby) into your soundfield and is independent of what
algorithms are applied, whether one uses analog filters, negative feedback, feed forward, FFT or whatever.
If you have enough CPU horsepower you can also use this algorithm directly but you'd have to do a lot to improve stability and mitigate artifacts,
e.g. cluster the sources, track them over time, look at what frequencies occur together (and assume they belong to the same source), look at harmonics etc.


BUT now see what happens if we have 2 different sound sources within the same frequency range, e.g. a girl singing on L and another one on R.
We cannot make any assumptions about the relative phases in the girls' frequencies. Most likely there will be a phase difference
somewhere between 0 and 180 degrees between L and R.
And this means that PL2 will place it somewhere between front and back -- arbitrarily. It can not distinguish between 2 sources in front you
or a single one behind you. No algorithm in the world could do that if the girls started signing at the same time.
This implies that you cannot have a stereo choir in front of you in PL2. It will get scattered somewhere between front and rear.
The same goes for stereo guitars, especially distorted ones, etc. You name it.

So the conclusion is that applying PL2 to music is very very unpredictable and most of what you hear in the surrounds is nothing but artifacts.
Of couse it is still possible to put a source anywhere in the soundfield, but only as long as it doesn't conflict with the rest of the music.

I have to take back most of what I wrote in the previous post, since this explains almost every effect that I noticed there (including the echoes) -- stupid me!
While it is still possible that some of the surround effects one hears there were applied deliberately, it is actually much less likely that I thought.
But I'm glad that I now have the exact answer to why one should buy 5.1 recordings or why the Fraunhofer develops an mp3surround format ;-)

Christian
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2006-12-09 04:54:24
I've been trying to understand how PL works for ages, but I'm incredibly weak towards math.

So let me ask you this: why do you think that some albums sound fantastic with PL2 applied? And why do some sound crappy? To bring up my previous example, Tool's 10,000 Days sounds absolutely fantastic and that album does sound like it was programmed for decoding---it's magnificent. But look back to another one of their albums, Ænima, and it doesn't get much seperation in the surround channels, there isn't much of a difference between listening to stereo and between 5.1 for most of that album.

Is it sheer luck? Programming techniques? After all, some albums sound clearer than others with regards to distinction between instruments and sounds, for example.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2006-12-09 15:09:38
Quote
So let me ask you this: why do you think that some albums sound fantastic with PL2 applied? And why do some sound crappy? To bring up my previous example, Tool's 10,000 Days sounds absolutely fantastic and that album does sound like it was programmed for decoding---it's magnificent. But look back to another one of their albums, Ænima, and it doesn't get much seperation in the surround channels, there isn't much of a difference between listening to stereo and between 5.1 for most of that album.

Is it sheer luck? Programming techniques? After all, some albums sound clearer than others with regards to distinction between instruments and sounds, for example.


There's exactly one CD stuck in my CD player. And this is Tool - 10,000 Days, which I haven't ripped yet.

But in general, one can observe that PL2 gives reasonable results in many cases, even if no one monitored it in the studio. That's because the things that end up in the surrounds are usually those with most stereo-separation in the source. This can almost be called "natural" behaviour. So it *could* be luck.
On the other hand, you can have very bad luck. Like a guitar to the left which moves to the surrounds whenever a second guitar to the right plays something.
But if one monitors PL2 during recording and if one is willing to make tradeoffs with how it sounds in plain stereo, one can tweak a thousand things. There are simple rules that can be followed to get more predictable results. E.g. putting guitars behind you is relatively easy, percussion too, keeping the singer in the center speaker is easy etc. Trying to do the opposite is often hard and requires some tradeoffs.

edit: Just listened to Tool - 10,000 Days with PL2 (-featuretest).
There are indeed a few very nice & clear effects in it, e.g. the voice in Jambi at 1:10, the echoes at 1:44,
the thunderstorm in Wings Pt. 2 or the voices in Intension (@2:10). Seems to be more than coincidence.

Christian
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Nathan P on 2007-01-02 00:07:50
Wow, I am finding this plugin incredibly enjoyable!  I am listening to The Phantom of the Opera soundtrack with the convert to 4 channel and the DHP, wow, it's just eons better sounding than the plain input, I was switching it on and off, and it just sounded dead with it off.  Great work!  Just a question, what is the procedure to encode music with this for playback on an ipod or other device?  Great work guys!

Thanks,
Nathan
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Nathan P on 2007-01-02 00:45:41
Okay, I've listened to some Coldplay style tracks and they sound great, but loud tracks start clipping really bad (It sounds like it's stammering almost), what is the consensus on how to fix this?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2007-01-02 01:24:10
Look at pages 3 and 4 of this thread.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: elenhil on 2007-01-03 22:03:10
Can anyone explain me what's the use of converting stereo to 4 channels and applying DHP? I have a 5.1 system and I hear nothing special - nothing better that simply using channer mixer.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2007-01-04 03:39:31
Wow, I am finding this plugin incredibly enjoyable!  I am listening to The Phantom of the Opera soundtrack with the convert to 4 channel and the DHP, wow, it's just eons better sounding than the plain input, I was switching it on and off, and it just sounded dead with it off.  Great work!  Just a question, what is the procedure to encode music with this for playback on an ipod or other device?  Great work guys!

Thanks,
Nathan


Right Click-->Convert and have DSP processing on.
Quote
Can anyone explain me what's the use of converting stereo to 4 channels and applying DHP? I have a 5.1 system and I hear nothing special - nothing better that simply using channer mixer.


You do know that this plugin is specifically designed for listening on headphones only, right? Are you perhaps thinking of the Pro Logic II plugin?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: elenhil on 2007-01-04 21:50:57
Quote

Can anyone explain me what's the use of converting stereo to 4 channels and applying DHP? I have a 5.1 system and I hear nothing special - nothing better that simply using channer mixer.

You do know that this plugin is specifically designed for listening on headphones only, right?

Surely I do. But I keep seeing quotes like "I am listening to The Phantom of the Opera soundtrack with the convert to 4 channel and the DHP, wow, it's just eons better sounding than the plain input" I wonder what are they talking about?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2007-01-05 00:46:35
I would assume that he is listening on headphones to the Phantom of the Opera soundtrack with the "convert stereo to 4 channels" and "Dolby Headphone" DSP and he thinks it sounds better than the same soundtrack without that input.

DHP is not meant to be used without headphones, it's as simple as that.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: AldeBaran on 2007-01-05 12:10:00
Hi all,

Don't shoot me but my foobar version 9 is not configured properly yet and I'm looking for the earlier version of this wrapper, please.

And, yes, I would be very interested in a wrapper for Dolby Virtual Speaker. 

Has anyone had any success taking an MP3 file, running it through Foobar with this wrapper and writing the output to file, copy to a portable device and enjoying psuedo-5.1 sound?

Al.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2007-01-05 14:29:59
Has anyone had any success taking an MP3 file, running it through Foobar with this wrapper and writing the output to file, copy to a portable device and enjoying psuedo-5.1 sound?

Yes, I'm doing it that way. Using foobar's converter makes that really easy.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2007-01-05 17:37:06
Has anyone had any success taking an MP3 file, running it through Foobar with this wrapper and writing the output to file, copy to a portable device and enjoying psuedo-5.1 sound?


Yep. Works like a charm.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hushypushy on 2007-01-05 19:15:36
And don't forget turning 5.1 files into stereo for portable headphone listening
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: AldeBaran on 2007-01-10 13:22:47
Hi,

I managed to get hold of the DTS decoder and I have converted some DTS music files I have to MP4. I have used 31kbps due to really hectic space limitations on my phone. I first ran the files through the Dolby Headphone plugin and I must say that I am impressed.

Even though the quality of the files is not great and the quality of the free headphones is not great either the sound comes out brilliantly.

It sounds a lot more natural than normal stereo music.

On the other hand, I have a test sound file that is a single voice saying "this is front left speaker", "this the front right speaker" etc and I must admit I can't really close my eyes and imagine two speakers in front of me and two behind me. The center speaker sounds like it is in my head and not in front.

I am using DH2 (Live room). I will try DH1 and see if it is any better.

But having said that - music (stereo and DTS) sounds much more alive when using this plugin.

Well done.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: AldeBaran on 2007-01-10 13:52:21
I am using DH2 (Live room). I will try DH1 and see if it is any better.


DH1 is more interesting - I can "locate" the speakers better and I would use this for movies.

DH2 feels more immersive but less discrete - the sound certainly rotates around myhead but I find it is less distracting than DH1.

Since I am encoding music to listen to while I am driving I think I will stick to DH2 so I don't look over my shoulder and crash. DH1 will be for listening at home with headphones.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: 5cylinders on 2007-04-08 06:56:29
a newbie's question:


Does anyone else  use dolbyhp along with bs2p (foo_dsp_bs2b)?
I place bs2p below the dolbyhp  (in DSP manager) . Is this the right order?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2007-04-09 13:58:03
I replied in [a href='index.php?showtopic=38291']this thread[/a].
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2007-04-24 13:45:36
I've recently upgraded my audio gear to a Sennheiser HD-650 headphone. I have to confess that I can no longer use Dolby Headphone without noticing its negative impact on music detail and clarity. DH was good when I had cheap Aiwa headphones but now I can hear too much the difference on the treble side.

My advice now is: for music listening purposes use DH if you don't want to or can't spend on better hardware; otherwise you can live without it or just use simpler crossfeed.

For movies DH is still a good immersion enhancement.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2007-04-24 13:56:05
Does that imply that you no longer have any interest in developing the plugin?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2007-04-24 20:32:35
Hmmm, interesting.

I don't own any hi-quality headphones, that's why I ask you.
Could it be that the Sennheisers (and probably some other praised headphones) mimic the sound(stage) of things like Dolby Headphone (or some HRTFs in gerenal) by themselves, to some degree?
Because, apart from the crossfeed and delay, DH seems to be not more than a certain equalization profile, captured in the HRTFs, which is applied to the sound.
Well-tuned headphones could reproduce that, at least in theory.

If this was the case, then listening to DH over such phones would result in the same effect being applied two times in succession.
Therefore, I would like to know how it sounds when you apply DH and equalize the Senns to be linear or mostly linear.
For testing I have uploaded 2 equalization profiles for the HD650 (from headroom), one (http://files.filefront.com/7332133) for linear response over all frequencies (which should be pretty bright without DH) and one (http://files.filefront.com/7331917) with rolled-off highs (like the "perfect" headphone should sound, if one ignores soundstage aspects).

I hope that headroom's data is correct (if not it might sound quite bad in some freqs) and that you find the time for thoroughly trying it out.
The impulse responses can be loaded with foo_convolve.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: mkeroppi on 2007-05-11 03:06:28
Some headphones do seem to have some type of crossfeed or at least compensate for HRTF. I'm using the ER-4B and DH is wonderful. Music does lose details/clarity (because of the "natural" reverb), but the bigger sound stage (which means separation between instruments) more than makes up for it when monitoring. Besides, the headphone sounds like a normal speaker now, and not from a headphone which is correct.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Erik Garci on 2007-06-21 22:11:19
Where can I get a version of the DH wrapper for 0.8.3?

I know it used to be available, since the initial version of the wrapper was created for 0.8.3, but the only versions that I have found are for 0.9.

The reason I want it is to try DH on the line input.  Since 0.9 is still missing the line input feature, I have to use 0.8.3 to use the line input.

In other words...
0.9 has the DH wrapper, but line input is still missing.
0.8.3 has line input, but I have not found the DH wrapper for it.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2007-06-26 12:20:43
Erik: Plugin version for foobar2000 0.8x is now uploaded in the official 3rd party components website as version 1.0.0. Sorry for the crappy Store&Serve, but I have to say that at least it worked back in june.

Good luck
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nawhead on 2007-09-01 12:27:21
Chungalin, I really think you should put up your latest version of the DSP (v 1.1.1) with the option to turn off Dynamic range compression on your main page.  That really is the superior version.  In my experience, dynamic compression drastically bloats the sound and introduces loudness at the sake of fidelity, so is only good for watching movies, and preventing clipping is mostly a side effect rather than a goal I think.  The reason it's on by default in applications like WinDVD and Power DVD is because those are movie players and not music players.  Have you tried to listen to the plugin without DRC on your Sennheisers?

And that storeandserve web site is trash!  Look what people are doing to get the test version (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2891398&postcount=49).   

Please officially release 1.1.1 and make Dynamic compression unchecked by default.  That's the setting I'm using on your plugin right now (Channel Mixer [6 chan, sub w/o bass redirection] -> Dolby Headphone [no compression]), and it sounds absolutely gorgeous.   

Just some more extraneous observations about using Dolby Headphone Wrapper...  Using an upmixer like the default "Convert stereo to 4 chan" with DHP is a must (otherwise the output is hollow and thin).  But it's not the most optimal sound.  Use another 3rd party dsp, skipyrich's Channel Mixer (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/Channel_Mixer_%28foo_channel_mixer%29), with 6 chan upmix, subwoofer enabled but no bass redirection (all other settings default), and you now get a very full sound.  For non-compressed rock, like old 60-70's stuff, Channel Mixer with subwoofer is absolute gold (in fact this combination is the best headphone sound I've heard for old super stereo 60's rock!).  Other types of music like jazz, classical, and vocals sounds amazing as well.

However, on modern rock/pop/r&b albums (stuff that's mixed too hot), this setting makes bass very boomy and I hear clipping on some .  For hot albums, I have to turn off the subwoofer switch altogether, but the resulting sound is almost identical to the default 2 to 4 chan upmixer.  Changing volume levels in Channel Mixer only thins the sound, and the clipping still remains.  And changing the amplitude in DHP doesn't stop the clipping either.  The real solution is to apply replaygain info on those tracks that clip, and the boominess/clipping goes away.  I use replaygain but still turn up the volume because I'm not doing it for volume normalization but to stop clipping.  And finally use the Advanced Limiter DSP right after Dolby Headphone. 

Now I'm in Dolby Headphone heaven!  I actually started applying replaygain info to my entire library just so I can listen to them all with this plugin! 
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: edwardar on 2007-09-01 20:15:11
nawhead, thanks very much for bringing this to my attention. I didn't even know that newer version existed!

Ed
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Erik Garci on 2007-09-02 07:11:43
Erik: Please try the following version. I think it's the latest version for 0.8x I compiled almost one year and half ago.

Dolby Headphone Wrapper (http://storeandserve.com/download/812646/foo_dsp_dolbyhp_%5Bfb2k_0.8%5D.zip.html)

Good luck

Thanks, but I am getting an error when I try to download it.

Can you provide a different link?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2007-09-03 00:02:27
nawhead: Thanks for letting me know of that. I'm sorry for the inconvenience to all plugin users. The 1.1.1 version was initially a test version to evaluate the effect of Dynamic Compression parameter, but I really forgot to make it official. Store & Serve was fine some months ago, but of course it's not the best way to keep it available for a long time. Now it's uploaded at official 3rd party plugins website as version 1.1.1, the only change from the "test" 1.1.1 is that the Dynamic Compression is disabled by default. I've also uploaded the 1.0.0 version for older foobar2000 0.8 as requested by Erik.

As I said previously, I'm no longer using it for music. If you read the older posts in this thread you will see that we already tried several upmixing variations to feed DH, including ChannelMixer and FreeSurround. The main problem (for my taste) is that without Dynamic Compression is difficult to harness the volume so the DH engine doesn't go outside 0db (i.e. clip) in all cases. I want to listen to music without the paranoid stress of "hey! I think I've heard a clip there!". Maybe as you say it's a matter of adjusting RG for your media to avoid bad peaks. Feel free to share the experience.

However, I don't plan to spoil the party to anyone. I'm happy to know that there're people enjoying the sound from this plugin.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2007-09-03 11:46:23
The main problem (for my taste) is that without Dynamic Compression is difficult to harness the volume so the DH engine doesn't go outside 0db (i.e. clip) in all cases. I want to listen to music without the paranoid stress of "hey! I think I've heard a clip there!". Maybe as you say it's a matter of adjusting RG for your media to avoid bad peaks. Feel free to share the experience.
Some guy at Head-Fi recommended setting the DHP volume to 71% (about -3 dB). I have tested both a 5.1 and a stereo source (upmixed to quad) and the peak levels are less then 1 dB below 0 dB but not above, so maybe that's the optimal setting. Using the advanded limiter plugin afterwards should take care of minor clippings if there are any.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nawhead on 2007-09-05 22:30:59
nawhead: Thanks for letting me know of that. I'm sorry for the inconvenience to all plugin users. The 1.1.1 version was initially a test version to evaluate the effect of Dynamic Compression parameter, but I really forgot to make it official. Store & Serve was fine some months ago, but of course it's not the best way to keep it available for a long time. Now it's uploaded at official 3rd party plugins website as version 1.1.1, the only change from the "test" 1.1.1 is that the Dynamic Compression is disabled by default. I've also uploaded the 1.0.0 version for older foobar2000 0.8 as requested by Erik.


Thanks for releasing 1.1.1 officially.  I really do think the Dolby Headphone Wrapper is the best crossfeed/speaker simulator available for Foobar2k right now.  I'm a big headphone buff too (or used to be, with a M-Audio 2496 sound card feeding Creek OBH-11 headphone amp to Grado SR-125 or Sony MDR-7506, nothing fancy, but it was passable for semi-cool) back in the day, and always used software crossfeeds.  I've gone pretty basic nowadays with just a Koss KSC-35 connected to the headphone jack on a Audigy sound card, but the Dolby HP plugin makes me think I have a better setup than I do!   


Quote
As I said previously, I'm no longer using it for music. If you read the older posts in this thread you will see that we already tried several upmixing variations to feed DH, including ChannelMixer and FreeSurround. The main problem (for my taste) is that without Dynamic Compression is difficult to harness the volume so the DH engine doesn't go outside 0db (i.e. clip) in all cases. I want to listen to music without the paranoid stress of "hey! I think I've heard a clip there!". Maybe as you say it's a matter of adjusting RG for your media to avoid bad peaks. Feel free to share the experience.

However, I don't plan to spoil the party to anyone. I'm happy to know that there're people enjoying the sound from this plugin.


I've been playing around more with the different upmixing solutions (with the help of Peakmeter (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=55358&st=0) as a visual aid), and I still think a replaygained track upmixed with Channel Mixer is optimal.  I've been listening to everything from opera to hardcore heavy metal and I'm not finding any unresolvable clipping issues. 

However, I've identified two situations in order of severity where tracks still clip with ReplayGain + Channel Mixer + Dolby Headphone:(Note: For situation #1, you have to be listening in album mode for this problem to affect you.)

For both instances, advanced limiter solves it.  However, since situation #1 is worse than situation #2, if you have an album with a couple -5 dB track gain on a +2 dB album, you may just want to playback in track mode so advanced limiter doesn't kick in so much. 

For me, I don't like it when advaned limiter kicks in a lot, so I'm preferring to listen to everything in track mode now.  Album gain doesn't seem to make sense to me anymore for anything but gapless albums.

Why do I go through the trouble you may ask?  I don't like the FreeSurround upmixer since it's hardcoded to 85% gain, and it's not a dynamically adjusting solution.  Same for just setting lower amplification in DHP itself.  I don't like the idea of just throwing away bits of information unnecessarily.  Also, the highs with Channel Mixer (with sub turned on, no redirection) has more sparkle when I adjust for volume difference [but don't take my word for it, I haven't done abx testing so I may be fooled].

But FreeSurround does bring out the low mids better than the default 2 to 4 channel upmixer, so it's good for people who don't have a replaygained library or don't want to go through the trouble of it (though I find replaygaining my library has brought me more benefits than I first sought out, but that's another discussion).
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nawhead on 2007-09-05 22:59:58
I have two different versions of the dolbyhph.dll, one from PowerDVD 4, and the one from PowerDVD 7, and the version numbering is wrong on 1.20!

From PowerDVD 4:
DolbyHph.dll (modified date 11/5/2001)
File version 1.2.0.222
Product Version 1.02.0222

From PowerDVD 7:
dolbyhph.dll (modified date 2/7/2007)
File version 1.10.0.270
Product version 1.10.0270

They messed up the file version # on the dolbyhph.dll from back in 2001.

To see the Product Version info, go to File Properties -> Version tab -> Product Version item (2nd from bottom).

Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2007-09-05 23:51:27
You should not rely on the modification date as it is only related to your file system and not the file itself. Some programs set that date to the date when the file is first copied to your hard disk. Version 1.10.0.270 is definitely much older than the shown date.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nawhead on 2007-09-06 04:04:54
You should not rely on the modification date as it is only related to your file system and not the file itself. Some programs set that date to the date when the file is first copied to your hard disk. Version 1.10.0.270 is definitely much older than the shown date.


You're thinking of file creation date.  The file modification date is separate from the file creation date.  But that really wasn't the part I was trying to impress.

Look at the product version numbering:

File version 1.2.0.222
Product Version 1.02.0222

File version 1.10.0.270
Product version 1.10.0270

1.10.0.270 is definitely newer than 1.2.0.222.

Now is there a noticeable audible difference?  Much harder to say...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nawhead on 2007-09-06 05:43:10
1.10.0.270 is definitely newer than 1.2.0.222.

Now is there a noticeable audible difference?  Much harder to say...


I just did an ABX test to see if the different dolbyhp DLL's have any audible difference.  Failed.  Then I realized I could have just done a binary comparison first.  "No differences in decoded data found."  Well I could have saved myself 45 minutes by doing that first!   

So I guess this was pointless arguing about version numbers.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2007-09-06 08:31:29
You're thinking of file creation date.  The file modification date is separate from the file creation date.
No, I know the difference between file modification dates and file creation dates. What I wanted to say is that programs often change the modification date to the creation date when it is initially written to the hard disk. Of course that is an unwanted behaviour. Therefore these dates are not reliable to show how old a file really is.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nawhead on 2007-09-07 22:07:50
You're thinking of file creation date.  The file modification date is separate from the file creation date.
No, I know the difference between file modification dates and file creation dates. What I wanted to say is that programs often change the modification date to the creation date when it is initially written to the hard disk. Of course that is an unwanted behaviour. Therefore these dates are not reliable to show how old a file really is.


Ok I understand, but that's why I pointed out the product version numbers as well.  But this is becoming off topic and might get modded. 

As I said above, I did the bit comparison (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/Binary_Comparator_%28foo_bitcompare%29) and the output of 1.2.0 (or 1.02) is the same as 1.10, so I'm convinced it doesn't matter which version of the DLL is used with this plugin.  I think the changes might have been cosmetic in the code, or maybe code optimizations, and nothing to do with signal processing.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nawhead on 2007-10-13 21:06:09
Thanks thuneau for your feedback.

Regarding the bug you report, yes, I was expecting this to happen (unfortunately). The point is that Dolby Headphone engine DLL is not multithread compatible. This means that only one stream of audio can be processed at a time for a given process that has loaded the DLL. Given the time shifts that Dolby Headphones introduces to signal, the DLL needs to use a small buffer to keep part of the previous input audio. Then the filter is not exactly 1:1 on every call. If you mix calls from different audio sources you will get a mess on output, since previously buffered samples from source A (play) are mixed with samples from source B (convert).

However I was expecting this to happen whenever concurrent play and convert with DH is performed, not only when a given file is being played/converted at the same time. I'll check it.


I just came upon this bug when I was converting a bunch of files for use on my new portable.  Every single file came out garbled!  I own a P4 HyperThreading CPU so foobar2k processes 2 files simultaneously at all times.  I thought I was gonna have to abandon my Dolby Headphone conversion plans, but I fortunately came upon this discussion about disabling hyperthreading with foobar (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=43830).  To do so, open up Task Manager, find the foobar2000.exe process, right-click, "Set Affinity," and uncheck CPU 1.  Voila, no more hyperthreading with foobar2000, and I can mass convert with Dolby Headphone for portable use.  Of course, I have to go through these steps every time I want to convert using DHP, but it's simple enough to remember.

Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: odyssey on 2007-10-13 22:19:11
Look at the product version numbering:

File version 1.2.0.222
Product Version 1.02.0222

File version 1.10.0.270
Product version 1.10.0270

1.10.0.270 is definitely newer than 1.2.0.222.

Well, last time I checked, 2 were less then 10...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nawhead on 2007-10-14 11:12:33

Look at the product version numbering:

File version 1.2.0.222
Product Version 1.02.0222

File version 1.10.0.270
Product version 1.10.0270

1.10.0.270 is definitely newer than 1.2.0.222.

Well, last time I checked, 2 were less then 10...


Don't be going all common sense on us now.  I'm a computer geek so I need leading zeros to tell me if 2 is less than 10! 
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: odyssey on 2007-10-14 13:33:47


Look at the product version numbering:

File version 1.2.0.222
Product Version 1.02.0222

File version 1.10.0.270
Product version 1.10.0270

1.10.0.270 is definitely newer than 1.2.0.222.

Well, last time I checked, 2 were less then 10...


Don't be going all common sense on us now.  I'm a computer geek so I need leading zeros to tell me if 2 is less than 10! 

I just think it was funny  True that some uses leading zeros, but I've seen this practice other places now. Take a look at Nero - They don't pad their number with zeros as well, and sometimes run up above 9 in their versioning scheme
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: blahdy on 2007-12-10 04:08:25
Hello, first post here..

First, this is an awesome plugin (made me switch out of winamp!) for headphone listeners.  quite the only DSP needed, period.

I wanted to put some additional observation here..and that is:

I think most people here would agree that while Dolbyhph.dll accepts 2.0 stereo input for processing, it's really designed for 5.1 input.  Thus, upmixing stereo material (i.e. most mp3's) to minimum of 4 channels or to 6 channels using skyprich's Channel Mixer is essential before passing off to dolby headphone..

It seems to me, Dolby Headphone sounds best when you send it a true, natively mastered 5.1 surround material (i.e. from a DVD for example).  Upmixing using free upmixers available for foobar2000 doesn't produce the realistic sound for me (then again, a 2 channel stereo is 2 channels, not 5.1... making 5.1 out of it is quite not realistic).

So I've been looking for 2ch->6ch upmixers for foobar2000 that have some additional feedback processing that bring more 'liveliness' to the sound while upmixing, similar to Dolby Pro Logic II, etc.  So far the best one I've found is Steve Thompson's V.I. VST Plugin available at http://www.stevethomson.ca/vi/ (http://www.stevethomson.ca/vi/)

Right now my foobar2000 DSP settings are chained like this:

1. Channel Mixer:  Upmix is switched off, subwoofer is switched off.  Channels are set to 6 channels on first page however.
2. VST Host bridge -> V.I. Plugin for upmixing
3. Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP (vol. set to 100%, dynamic compression off)
4. Advanced Limiter or custom compressor like VLevel if you notice any clippings

And quite simply, this setup produces the best ever headphone sound I've ever heard from standard 2 channel stereo mp3's -- definitely beats chaining thru typical freely available upmixers (i.e. built-in 4 channel upmixer, etc).  I can actually locate the sound as if being in a room, where as with typical setup before, it wasn't too realistic as this.

Only problem is that VST host bridge seems extremely unstable with V.I. Plugin loaded.  For example, re-seeking to different section of the song while playing would either produce lots of noise or crash foobar2000.  Alternative way for now is to convert stereo mp3's to 5.1 surround material by chaining ChannelMixer->VSTHostBridge and using Convert function (which I can then listen with just Dolby Headphone wrapper DSP loaded).

Anyway, just sharing my experience, thank you for the awesome plugin!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-01-04 23:18:16
I have evaluated the V.I plugin for some time now and I agree: It definitely improves the sound even further compared to the simple quad upmix. The mentioned DSP chain is exactly what I'm using now.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Andu on 2008-01-05 20:27:14
Is there a VST host bridge that works with foobar 0.9.5 and if there is do you care to link me?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-01-06 01:51:31
foo_dsp_vst (http://pelit.koillismaa.fi/plugins/show.php?id=205)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Andu on 2008-01-06 03:34:19
Thanks a lot

Edit: Can I just close the VI plugin or do I have to keep that window alive for it to work? I'm just asking because if I have work on the desktop to to it is rather annoying.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-01-06 10:56:24
You can close it.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: fluffycat on 2008-01-06 13:43:40
Hi guys, I'm a really really awful n00b in every sense of the word when it comes to audio and things, but I just wanted to say I stumbled upon the DH wrapper 2 weeks ago and am absolutely wowed! It made listening MUCH easier on the ears and it "felt" cooler too...

However, my problem is that although until now I've been using stereo->4ch and then Dolby Headphone wrapper in that order... Some music sounds absolutely unlistenable because of the bass. Amon Tobin's Four Ton Mantis just sounded awful. So I read this thread and what I understood was that stereo->4ch makes it sound a lot louder, but the bass can get too loud. Instead some people have been upmixing from stereo to 6ch/5.1. One component suggested was ATSurround Processor, which was good for bass but after a while I felt it was a bit tinny. Also, it was rather soft. Then I tried using ATSurround Processor on its own without Dolby Headphone, but it felt uncomfortable to my ears and not all that different from normal playback. Another one was skyprich's CHannel Mixer, but it wouldn't work (wrong version of foobar? I'm using 0.9.4.4) so I can't use that.

Any suggestions? I don't suppose it's possible to have sufficient loudness + proper handling of bass + surround-sound feeling all in one package is it... For the record I'm using audio-technica ATH-T22 headphones, maybe I should just get better headphones or do some equalizing or something :S
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-01-06 21:26:43
I don't have more bass when using "Convert stereo to 4 channels" and "Dolby Headphone". Maybe it's a clipping problem. I use ReplayGain and a -6 dB attenuation for material without ReplayGain information. With most music I don't get peaks above -6 dB that way. But when I disable ReplayGain and the attenuation I get peaks above 0 dB all the time. The peaks almost never go above +3 dB, though. So it would help to lower the amplification in the "Dolby Headphone" plugin to 71% (which equals -3 dB) to prevent clipping. Maybe that solves your problem. You should also disable "Dynamic compression" in the plugin's options. That could also be the cause of a too "thick" sound.

P.S.: Try the archive of the "Channel Mixer" plugin with the .7z extension instead of .zip. The former is for foobar2000 0.9.x while the latter is for 0.8.x. If you don't know how to handle it google for "7-zip".
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: fluffycat on 2008-01-06 23:06:14
I don't have more bass when using "Convert stereo to 4 channels" and "Dolby Headphone". Maybe it's a clipping problem. I use ReplayGain and a -6 dB attenuation for material without ReplayGain information. With most music I don't get peaks above -6 dB that way. But when I disable ReplayGain and the attenuation I get peaks above 0 dB all the time. The peaks almost never go above +3 dB, though. So it would help to lower the amplification in the "Dolby Headphone" plugin to 71% (which equals -3 dB) to prevent clipping. Maybe that solves your problem. You should also disable "Dynamic compression" in the plugin's options. That could also be the cause of a too "thick" sound.

P.S.: Try the archive of the "Channel Mixer" plugin with the .7z extension instead of .zip. The former is for foobar2000 0.9.x while the latter is for 0.8.x. If you don't know how to handle it google for "7-zip".


Thanks for the swift reply! I've turned dynamic compression off from the start, and have a DSP component called "Advanced Limiter" - I guess it's better to switch that out for a "Hard -6dB Limiter", although I can't hear the difference so clearly yet (shall check it out when I get back). I'll try reducing the Dolby Headphone plugin's amplification then. And many thanks regarding the archives - I didn't realise the .7z was newer (I know how to use it though).
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: eeasee on 2008-03-24 22:53:56
Can anyone tell me if the source of this wrapper is available anywhere?

THX
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: bilbo on 2008-03-27 18:51:59
Can anyone tell me if the source of this wrapper is available anywhere?

THX


It is included in some software distributions that come with new DVD drives. I know LG's have it. Check your software.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-03-27 19:07:44
I think eeasee means the source code.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: eeasee on 2008-04-02 06:07:30
correct, i meant the source code of the wrapper.
I'd like to port it to other plug-in APIs.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: capma on 2008-04-04 12:01:38
dolbyhph.dll (1.20.0.276) included in PowerDVD 8.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Erik Garci on 2008-04-04 14:49:58
Can anyone tell me if the source of this wrapper is available anywhere?

Have you tried sending a PM to Chungalin (the author)?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-04-04 23:27:27
dolbyhph.dll (1.20.0.276) included in PowerDVD 8.
Thanks. Sadly, this version still isn't thread-safe.

By the way, I discovered that using the plugin with different sample rates yields different results. The sound gets brighter with increasing sample rates. I also noticed that the "room" effect is reduced at high sample rates like 88.2 and 96 kHz.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-04-07 23:15:58
By the way, I discovered that using the plugin with different sample rates yields different results. The sound gets brighter with increasing sample rates. I also noticed that the "room" effect is reduced at high sample rates like 88.2 and 96 kHz.

I think I now know why this is. I prepared test files with different sample rates ranging from 8 kHz to 192 kHz. All those files only contain a single one-sample impulse in the center channel like it is used for convolution. I kept the remaining five channels silent. After applying the DHP effect I trimmed any silent parts from the beginning and end and measured how many samples remained. Here are the results:

8 kHz: 3072 samples
16 kHz: 4096 samples
22.05 kHz: 5120 samples
24 kHz: 5120 samples
32 kHz: 6144 samples
38 kHz: 6144 samples
39 kHz: 8192 samples
44.1 kHz: 8192 samples
48 kHz: 8192 samples
96 kHz: 8192 samples
192 kHz: 8192 samples

I see some kind of formula: For every 8 kHz of sample rate 1024 more samples are used for the calculation. With 8192 samples being the obvious limit no sample rate above 48 kHz should be used.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: servimo on 2008-04-10 05:14:23
Thanks for this plugin! 
I am using it with a 2.1 system and is sounding real good, although is made for a Headphone. I'm getting clear sound and no distortions, that I have before I started using it.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-04-16 01:01:09
I've been thinking a little about different stereo upmixing solutions to achieve the best Dolby Headphone experience. These are the most basic solutions:

1. Simple Stereo
(http://www.devir.de/temp/upmix4.png)
This is the most simple approach. It already yields good results but it doesn't create a surround effect. It's just like a two-speaker simulation (which might be absolutely desirable).

2. Channel Doubling / Quad
(http://www.devir.de/temp/upmix3.png)
This method just mirrors the two stereo channels to the rear channels. It provides the most primitive surround effect.

There are several other approaches that upmix stereo to "real" 5.1 by also creating a center and sometimes also an LFE channel. Many solutions have been tested with varying results.

[a href='index.php?showtopic=46611']Moitah's "Center Cut" DSP plugin[/a] inspired me to think about possible upmixing solutions based on the features that the plugin provides (keep only center information, keep only side information). The big difference to other plugins in this category is that it isn't really suitable for a real 5.1 system because the bass isn't distributed well between the channels and it can cause artifacts if not sitting at a perfect position in a perfectly symmetrical speaker arrangement and/or room. But using the DH plugin allows us to circumvent any of these real-world issues. So, let's think about an upmixing solution especially designed for DH. Two methods have come to my mind:

1. "Quad+"
(http://www.devir.de/temp/upmix2.png)
This is like a more sophisticated quad upmix. Only Lf and Rf have their center information removed while Ls and Rs are kept fully intact. The soundstage is in the middle with no shift towards front or center (just like quad).

2. "Double Center"
(http://www.devir.de/temp/upmix1.png)
This approach moves any center information to only the center channel. Both Lf/Rf and Ls/Rs have the center information removed. To compensate for a low center volume the center channel volume is doubled. Therefore center information comes only from the front but not the rear. So this shifts the soundstage towards the front which I think is somehow desirable.

What do you think about these methods?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-04-18 03:55:26
There's also a third possibility to upmix the channels:
(http://www.devir.de/temp/upmix5.png)
This is similar to "Quad+". The center channel stays the same while the side channels have switched places. I think this might be the best of the three approaches.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: blahdy on 2008-04-21 01:20:05
For me, the most important effect when playing via DH is the virtual presence of Center speaker, that produces more discrete center stage than traditional stereo.

Free Surround DSP plugin does a nice job keeping general stereo intact while upmixing to 5.1.  However, when you slide the Center dimension slider to far right (1.0 value), whilst center channel sounds great, it reduces sound field in LF and RF channels, reducing the whole soundfield to almost mono-like.

Right now, what I'm doing to circumvent that problem while keeping generally strong Center channel is as follows:

1. Free Surround DSP
    -> Keep Center channel dimension slider to a value that fits your taste (i prefer 0.3 to 0.5), keep it balanced, so you don't lose too much audio out of LF and LR channels, while allocating a pretty good audio presence to front-center.
    -> Music Mode on rear phase shift.
    -> Keep default mixing coeff's (0.8165+j/0.5774-j)
2. Channel Mixer
    -> Doesn't do anything in the DSP chain other than for debugging purposes.  You can selectively disable/enable individual channels to test audio coming out of them.
3. Matrix Mixer
  -> Rebalance audio to increase (or double audio output) on FC, BR and BL channels.  Increases output ratio on rear and front-center channels.
4. Equalizer
  -> Not necessary, but if your Matrix Mixer configuration produces lower volume b/c of misconfigured/clipping ratios, you can use equalizer to up the volume.
5. Dolby Headphone


This creates a more solid / powerful front-center presence via DH for me, as opposed to simply feeding DH after Free Surround, where in that case, LF, LR channels are just as loud as center, if not more.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-04-21 08:33:25
Okay, since nobody seems to be interested in the theoretical discussion about the upmixing process, let's throw in something of more practical use. I've created a plugin based on Moitah's Center Cut. It features the three described upmixing methods. Quad+ is called "full rear", the last described method is called "full front". Personally, I prefer "full front".

Here's the link: foo_dsp_upmix (http://www.devir.de/temp/foo_dsp_upmix.zip) (source of the modified file included)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: patul on 2008-04-22 05:20:05
Okay, since nobody seems to be interested in the theoretical discussion about the upmixing process, let's throw in something of more practical use.


I'm interested, but I am not in proper capacity when it comes to theoretical discussion, maybe you can contact tebasuna51 about this, I'm pretty sure he will be interested to have a talk or two about the upmixing process.

I'll try your plug in anyway.. Thanks..
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Bad Monkey on 2008-09-26 13:53:24
Is there any way to have this plug-in active if and only if 5.1 content is being played in Foobar?

I'd like to have it set-up so that regular stereo content skips it, but the odd AC3 that I have is fed through it.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-11-07 16:57:45
I sent the author a PM, asking for a recompiled version or alternatively the source code of the component. Hopefully he responds.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2008-11-07 17:19:09
I've been told by Hancoque about the incompatibility of the plugin with the latest fb2k version. I'll try to find a moment to recompile it, although I'm considering to release the source code to someone interested. As I've said before, I'm not using the plugin anymore but I still use fb2k as main audio player.

In the last two years I've been releasing the documentation I made about the DOLBYHPH.DLL to several persons, but I've just seen one of them developing something useful and readily available to anyone.

In the meantime, is anyone responsible there who's really interested in keep working with the plugin?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2008-11-14 15:21:28
Any news on your progress, Chungalin?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Yirkha on 2008-12-04 00:22:47
Because nobody else seemed to care, I contacted Chungalin and he was kind enough to give me the source code. So here is your updated version:

Dolby Headphone Wrapper v1.2.0
(obsolete links removed)

Changes:If I accidentally broke something, please let me know.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chungalin on 2008-12-04 01:02:20
Good luck to Yirkha with this component. I'm sure it's in good hands (and very fast hands indeed, given that I've passed him the code just a few hours ago and he's managed to produce something useful in that short time).
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Yirkha on 2008-12-04 03:07:14
Dolby Headphone Wrapper v1.3.0 (http://www.steorn.com/forum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/cool/boogie.gif)
(obsolete links removed)

Changes:
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Yirkha on 2008-12-04 20:41:35
Dolby Headphone Wrapper v1.3.1 
foo_dsp_dolbyhp-1.3.1.zip (http://yirkha.fud.cz/progs/foobar2000/foo_dsp_dolbyhp-1.3.1.zip) (58 KB)
foo_dsp_dolbyhp.dll (http://yirkha.fud.cz/progs/foobar2000/foo_dsp_dolbyhp.dll) (118 KB)

Changes:
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: bubbaganoush on 2008-12-14 23:39:20
Thank you. =)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Toxikator on 2009-02-27 13:22:53
I realize it's been an age since this was first posted, but two things.

First of all, a million thanks. Being able to wrap this into foobar I can finally start printing down various 5.1 mixes to 2-channel files and get them sounding NOT terrible.

The other thing I was going to ask was:

...I don't suppose, knowing what you know, you'd be able to make this kind of wrapper (or something similar) a VST, could you? I would LOVE to be able to use my 5.1 mixing console in Sonar to check 5.1 mixes and create halfway decent binaural downmixes.

EDIT: Nvm, I found another plugin that did this with some quick google work.

Anyway, thanks again for this!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Peter L on 2009-05-19 14:45:02
Wanted to add my thanks to the thread.  I Dolbyize my tracks before transferring to my MP3 player.  Hey, presto - a Dolby Headphone MP3 player!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: BASGTA on 2009-10-27 15:54:37
Great plugin.  Even though you're supposed to use them with headphones, they still make my speaker listening experience a lot better.  I don't know if it's because of this plugin, but when I sit in front of my speakers everything sounds awesome, but right when I stand up or move away I hear the bass a lot more.  Either way it's awesome, I haven't had the chance to try it with headphones yet however.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: CrazyRed98 on 2009-10-31 21:57:11
So quick question would this be helpful when I already have a Razer 5.1 Headphone's?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Jimbo51 on 2009-12-18 13:48:38
Thanks very much for this plugin. I love the effect, it's very convincing. I've found that narrowing the stereo width about 50% with the Channel Mixer plugin creates a realistic simulation of stereo speakers. By default the stereo width is 180 degrees, either side of your head, but narrowing it makes the sound stage more realistic (as the producer intended) and helps to make the headphones disappear. Try it
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2009-12-18 14:23:03
Dolby Headphone already simulates a room with a speaker system, so there's no need to narrow the stereo field before.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Jimbo51 on 2009-12-18 14:37:18
It's just a suggestion, it's not realistic that the left and right channels are either side of your head at 180 degrees.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2009-12-18 15:11:19
But they aren't. They would be without Dolby Headphone.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2010-01-17 10:23:14
The Dolby Headphone site states (http://www.dolby.com/professional/technology/pc/dolby-headphone.html) that DH can reproduce a "7.1-channel surround sound experience", given the right source material. Is there any indication that this is supported by the DolbyHph.dll implementation? Because that would be *very* interesting...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: pro_optimizer on 2010-01-17 23:15:32
The Dolby Headphone site states (http://www.dolby.com/professional/technology/pc/dolby-headphone.html) that DH can reproduce a "7.1-channel surround sound experience", given the right source material. Is there any indication that this is supported by the DolbyHph.dll implementation? Because that would be *very* interesting...


Nevermind -- that requires a virtual speaker system. (So who brings that to foobar? )
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: MusX on 2010-01-19 13:00:44
I'm using portable version of foobar
any chance for support relative path in this plugin config?
would like to use ./components/ path for my dolbyhph.dll instead of C:\Program Files\...
?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2010-01-20 15:37:19
Don't put the DLL in the components folder but in the main folder. And yes, the dot-notation works, I'm using it myself:
Code: [Select]
.\DolbyHph.dll
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: MusX on 2010-01-20 20:24:10
Don't put the DLL in the components folder but in the main folder. And yes, the dot-notation works, I'm using it myself:
Code: [Select]
.\DolbyHph.dll

thanks, just trying to set it up
I can't use .\ path in foobar prefs, I go and edit via notepad foo_dsp_dolbyhp.cfg,
when I change from C:\Program Files (x86)\foobar2000\dolbyhph.dll to .\dolbyhph.dll I will have the following error while running foobar:
Code: [Select]
---------------------------
Error
---------------------------
Error reading configuration file (Unsupported format or corrupted file).
Continue?
---------------------------
OK   Cancel
---------------------------

any other place where I can set it up?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Yirkha on 2010-01-20 20:53:47
It was possible in the old version, I've probably removed it later for some reason. Depending on "current directory" is never very reliable anyway.
Try the new version.

Dolby Headphone DSP Wrapper v1.4
(obsolete links removed)

Changes:
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2010-01-20 20:54:49
I can see the problem now. It seems like the location field was editable in an earlier version. I wonder why it isn't in the current version. You might want to look for an older version, edit the field by hand, save your DSP preset(s) and then switch back to the current version.

So, feature request: Make the field editable again.

Edit: Okay, never mind.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: MusX on 2010-01-20 21:48:41
yay! what a fast service  really shocked
works great  thaaaaaanks
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Yirkha on 2010-01-22 12:44:15
Dolby Headphone DSP Wrapper v1.4.1
foo_dsp_dolbyhp-1.4.1.zip (http://yirkha.fud.cz/progs/foobar2000/foo_dsp_dolbyhp-1.4.1.zip) (59 KB)
foo_dsp_dolbyhp.dll (http://yirkha.fud.cz/progs/foobar2000/foo_dsp_dolbyhp.dll) (122 KB)
Mirror (http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_dolbyhp)

Changes:
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: garbanzo.bean on 2010-01-24 19:26:34
tested i out with my Sennheisers using a 48Khz, 24 bit, 5.1 flac rip from bluray of David Gilmour's 2006 concert at Royal Albert Hall.

sounded very, very nice 
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: maniqui on 2010-04-22 05:57:26
Hi. Noob around here. First post

I'm trying to follow this suggested configuration (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=39404&view=findpost&p=534786) (a DSP stack of: Channel Mixer -> VST host bridge -> V.I plugin for upmix -> Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP -> Advanced Limiter), but I'm failing at the VI plugin for upmix step.

After running the VI Studio installer, it seems I should get a VI.dll file somewhere in my system. I've already searched for that file on my system, and it's definitely not there.
Any idea what could be going on? Is there any place where I could download that particular file? (on VI Studio website, there is a VII.dll file, but I'm not sure that's what I'm looking for).

Thanks in advance. And thanks also to both the author and maintainer of this plugin, which I'm just discovering...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: 2E7AH on 2010-04-22 06:38:45
I would use Channel mixer for upmixing and DH wrapper afterwards, no VSTs or anything like that
There are even Dolby upmixer components for foobar, but Channel mixer is enough for me
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: foodbar on 2010-06-22 17:28:10
I'm using foobar 1.0.3 and the latest version of the dsp (1.4.1), as well as the latest version of the dolbyhph.dll (1.10.0.270). The wrapper is telling me that the dll is valid and is the correct version, but when I have the dsp active, there is no audio output whatsoever. Even if I deactivate the dsp, foobar requires a restart before I regain output. I checked through all the other dsp's I have active and none of them are presenting the problem. It's probably something stupid on my part, but even so, I don't know what.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: necropimp on 2010-07-10 17:31:38
for me foobar just crashes when i select the dsp manager

edit... it was actually something else causing the crash... works great...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: TREX6662k6 on 2010-07-24 13:58:50
I'm usually not a fan of DSP's that radically change the music but this makes listening for long periods a lot easier. I like this.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: nevets1219 on 2010-08-25 00:39:43
For those that upgraded to foobar2k 1.1 and are getting:
Quote
Error: [foo_dsp_dolbyhp] Unable to load selected DLL, please check file availability or select a valid one.

Be sure to configure this plugin to point to the new location of dolbyhph.dll
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: chaos215bar2 on 2010-09-16 17:37:49
I really like the effect this gives to stereo audio, and it's great for those few 5.1 tracks I have, but I'm wondering where the limitation is preventing sample rates higher that 48 KHz from working properly. (As others have noted, the effect is lost on stereo audio at higher sample rates, and the plugin actually gives an error with 5.1 audio at higher sample rates.) I know some sound cards do support this. Does the dolbyhph.dll library just not support higher sample rates, even in the newest versions? Either way, great work with this plugin.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Hancoque on 2010-09-16 17:52:51
See this post (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=39404&view=findpost&p=557770) (including the quote) for a possible explanation.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: chaos215bar2 on 2010-09-16 22:53:38
Indeed, though that post doesn't explain exactly why this happens. It is entirely possible that the plugin itself is in some way causing that effect. I mainly asked because I saw no mention of the error when trying to run 5.1 audio at a sample rate higher than 48 KHz through the plugin, as opposed to stereo audio which doesn't cause an error but also doesn't sound correct. I fully expect that this is a limitation of dolbyhph.dll, even the latest versions, but it would be nice to have a definitive explanation from the plugin author for all who might be wondering to see.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Sandrine on 2010-09-16 23:50:06
I really like the effect this gives to stereo audio, and it's great for those few 5.1 tracks I have, but I'm wondering where the limitation is preventing sample rates higher that 48 KHz from working properly. (As others have noted, the effect is lost on stereo audio at higher sample rates, and the plugin actually gives an error with 5.1 audio at higher sample rates.) I know some sound cards do support this. Does the dolbyhph.dll library just not support higher sample rates, even in the newest versions? Either way, great work with this plugin.


I'm not getting any errors with my SB Audigy 2 at 24/96 5.1, in fact, I don't notice any difference between using this resolution or downsampling to 48khz.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: chaos215bar2 on 2010-09-17 02:42:46
I'm not getting any errors with my SB Audigy 2 at 24/96 5.1, in fact, I don't notice any difference between using this resolution or downsampling to 48khz.


That's interesting, since it's definitely this plugin generating the error. I tried placing a resampler before and after this plugin so I know exactly what the sample rate going into each plugin is. The last resampler can be set to 96 KHz without any problem, but as soon as the first resampler is set to 96 KHz and the input is 5.1, I get an error saying unsupported format 96000 Hz / 24-bit / 6 channel. This happens even if the last resampler is set to a value other than 96 KHz, implying that it's this plugin giving the error, since it's the only one that should be getting an input matching the error. Moreover, if the first resampler is set to 96 KHz and the input is stereo, then the output sounds the same regardless of whether I have this plugin in the chain or not, implying that the plugin is not giving an error with stereo input above 48 KHz, but isn't doing anything at all. I'm using dolbyhph.dll version 1.10.0.270.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Yirkha on 2010-09-19 20:09:03
The built-in filters in dolbyhph.dll (at least version 1.20.0276 here) support only sample rates 48000, 44100, 32000, 22050, 16000, 11025 and 8000 Hz. If the input data has any other sample rate, the nearest lower one is simply used instead.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: musicreo on 2010-09-20 10:58:49
I'm using the Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP nearly a year and I like it very much. So thanks to the developer.

I have a question. A 6.1 dts File from a video DVD can be played with Dolby Headphone. But why can't be a 6.1 Wave File  played with Dolby Headphone?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Yirkha on 2010-09-21 20:47:56
A 6.1 dts File from a video DVD can be played with Dolby Headphone. But why can't be a 6.1 Wave File played with Dolby Headphone?
What differences in behavior are there? I don't have a 6.1 file to check.

Nevertheless, I know that the default format with biggest number of channels supported by the library is 5.1 (FL, C, FR, SL, SR, LFE). And anything else with greater number of channels will most probably use this format with mismatched input data and therefore result in random noise (or worse).
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: musicreo on 2010-09-22 11:01:55
A 6.1 dts File from a video DVD can be played with Dolby Headphone. But why can't be a 6.1 Wave File played with Dolby Headphone?
What differences in behavior are there? I don't have a 6.1 file to check.

Nevertheless, I know that the default format with biggest number of channels supported by the library is 5.1 (FL, C, FR, SL, SR, LFE). And anything else with greater number of channels will most probably use this format with mismatched input data and therefore result in random noise (or worse).



Playing a 6.1 wave file is not possible. In Power DVD you can't choose Dolby Headphone and in foobar Dolby Headphone have no effect.

With  DTS 6.1 Dolby Headphone have no problems and it really seems that Dolby Headphone places the sound more behind you with the  extra back center channel in some scenes, compared to the ac3 file. Maby it  mixes the extra channel to  the SL, and SR or somthing else?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Yirkha on 2010-09-22 11:26:14
OK, thanks.

First, now I see a relevant part in foo_dsp_dolbyhp's code - if there are any more channels than the 5.1 layout described above, it's turned off and a helpful message is logged to the console.

Second, the libdca library, which foo_input_dts for fb2k uses, doesn't really decode anything more than a 3 front + 2 rear + LFE. Or do you actually see 7 channels for example in the status bar when you play such a file?

I'm not even sure if the DTS codec we are talking about can encode more than 5.1 input signal. From reading random pages on the Internets, it seemed like only some industry-grade DTS-ES extensions can do that.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: musicreo on 2010-09-22 14:47:40
OK, thanks.

First, now I see a relevant part in foo_dsp_dolbyhp's code - if there are any more channels than the 5.1 layout described above, it's turned off and a helpful message is logged to the console.

Second, the libdca library, which foo_input_dts for fb2k uses, doesn't really decode anything more than a 3 front + 2 rear + LFE. Or do you actually see 7 channels for example in the status bar when you play such a file?

I'm not even sure if the DTS codec we are talking about can encode more than 5.1 input signal. From reading random pages on the Internets, it seemed like only some industry-grade DTS-ES extensions can do that.


You're right. I looked at the DVD again. It  is only the DTS-ES Matrix surround and therefore only 5.1 with  the BC channel encoded from the BL and  BR channel  Only  Powerd DVD shows it as 6.1 and so I thougt that there are 7 discrete Channels but there only 6 Channels.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: anvil on 2010-11-05 23:34:53
Where can you find the newer version of dolbyhph.dll?

thanks in advance

anvil
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Qtax on 2010-11-06 23:59:20
Works great! A lot better and more realistic sound than SoudBlasters X-Fi CMSS-3D (Headphone).
Now I can enjoy my HD 650 even more.

/Q/;
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: musicreo on 2010-11-07 18:03:37
Where can you find the newer version of dolbyhph.dll?

thanks in advance

anvil


What do you mean with the new version?

In Power DVD 8-10 the version 1.20.0.276 is included. 
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: anvil on 2010-11-07 23:21:44
Strange,, thats what I thought.  I just down loaded PowerDVD 10 and it is ver 1.10

thanks.  any more thoughts here?

anvil..
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: fieryflare on 2011-02-07 21:32:07
I've installed the Dll, but I don't see any changes in Foobar. I'm using Windows 7 64 bit. I'm using Foobar version 1.1.2

How do you install it properly, I followed the Foobar FAQ and it seems to be installed but I can't find the plugin, where is it? What could be the problem?

Where can I find the settings window shown in this pic?: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...e:Dsp_dolby.PNG (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=File%3a%44sp_dolby.PNG)
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: musicreo on 2011-02-08 09:16:29
I've installed the Dll, but I don't see any changes in Foobar. I'm using Windows 7 64 bit. I'm using Foobar version 1.1.2

How do you install it properly, I followed the Foobar FAQ and it seems to be installed but I can't find the plugin, where is it? What could be the problem?

Where can I find the settings window shown in this pic?: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...e:Dsp_dolby.PNG (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=File%3a%44sp_dolby.PNG)



Preferences--Components--Install;or put the dll into the components directory.

Look at:Preferences-Playback-DSP-Manager-Available DSPs. There should be the Dolby Headphone Wrapper dsp.

To use the dolby headphone wrapper you must set the location of the dolbyhph.dll  in the menu.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Registereduser on 2011-03-02 11:00:52
How do I configure the plugin exactly? In preferences there is no way to configure. Thanks

Edit: HAHA nevermind  I figured it out. Thanks for the awesome plugin!
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: alp1509 on 2011-03-11 12:15:00
I got error message in the console: Error: [foo_dsp_dolbyhp] Selected DLL doesn't export required functions, check it's a real Dolby Headphone DLL or select another one. The status message in the DSP settings says also Invalid DLL; required functions missing. What I did wrong? Using latest versions of both foobar 1.1.5 and foo_dsp_dolbyhp 1.4.1
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: lvqcl on 2011-03-11 16:13:32
You also need DolbyHph.dll
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: hechacker1 on 2011-04-11 05:55:41
Thank you for this awesome plugin.

It sounds almost exactly like my Xonar DX Dolby Headphone function, but this one is slightly less lively in DH2 mode. It's also much quieter without dynamic compression. I wonder if the Xonar card does dynamic compression automatically?

But overall the sound quality is very good, and sometimes preferable to the sound card's DH implementation.

It's nice to have this for sound cards that don't have this feature.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: tony_almeida on 2011-10-13 09:33:31
Thank you @Hancoque
I am using your 2ch to 6ch plugin that you made in 2008 for dolby headphone wrapper.
It is the best way.
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Samurro on 2011-11-07 10:25:48
One Question, I got the Asus Xonar DX with the implemented Dolby Headphone, which DSPs or what configuration do I need for foobar2k to get the optimal sound out of it? I guess I don't need this wrapper?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: musicreo on 2011-11-07 13:14:59
You can use the Dolby Prologic upmix of your Xonar card for Stereo music. When you want to use a upmix dsp in foobar like  the Channel mixer  you have to activate  6 Channel input  in your Xonar audiocard or use  asio or wasapi output in foobar. 

I use the Xonar U1 with Dolby Headphone and this dsp for "optimal sound":  Equalizer, Neural Upmix, Matrix Mixer -- Dolby Headphone.

Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: processor on 2013-03-16 19:54:54
Hi, I just discovered that great plugin, and basically it works for me, but it has only minimal effect.

Contrary to most users (it seems), I do not want to upmix stereo sources. I would like to listen to real 5.1 recordings (i. e. AC3 files) with my AKG K-619 stereo headphones (connected to a SB X-Fi card).

Now, the plugin does work (with the 1.10 version of the DLL), but the effect is quite low. When I listen to a test file, the front parts seem to be 2 cm in front of my head and the rear parts seem to be 5 mm behind my head. With real music, it's impossible to distinct between front and back (as it is with real speakers).

Did I forget something, are my headphones not compatible, or is Dolby Headphone simply not better?
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: musicreo on 2013-03-30 14:23:35
Hi, I just discovered that great plugin, and basically it works for me, but it has only minimal effect.

Contrary to most users (it seems), I do not want to upmix stereo sources. I would like to listen to real 5.1 recordings (i. e. AC3 files) with my AKG K-619 stereo headphones (connected to a SB X-Fi card).

Now, the plugin does work (with the 1.10 version of the DLL), but the effect is quite low. When I listen to a test file, the front parts seem to be 2 cm in front of my head and the rear parts seem to be 5 mm behind my head. With real music, it's impossible to distinct between front and back (as it is with real speakers).

Did I forget something, are my headphones not compatible, or is Dolby Headphone simply not better?


What music are you listening to? There a several 5.1 albums that are not so good  and have a bad channel seperation (e.g. voice in all 5 channels instead of only center speaker)


The effect that the front seems to be very close to your head is a well known problem for binaural recordings.  This is because the used HRTFs don't match perfectly to everyone and then it is hard to trick your brain  when you see there is no speaker  in front of you.  But normaly the rear speakers sound pretty realsitic and 5.1 music  should sound much better with DH.






Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: SoNic67 on 2013-03-31 02:52:24
Did I forget something, are my headphones not compatible, or is Dolby Headphone simply not better?

No, you didn't miss nothing. There is no real substitute for listening real multichannel music in 5 speakers. I know that because I did try it a lot...
Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: shadowking on 2015-03-24 11:04:13
Did I forget something, are my headphones not compatible, or is Dolby Headphone simply not better?

No, you didn't miss nothing. There is no real substitute for listening real multichannel music in 5 speakers. I know that because I did try it a lot...



I have been trying this out and mostly pleased but today I arrived at truly amazing settings for my CD-Audio collection. I have used BS2B with good results and what started to bother me with DHP is a superstereo effect although clearly more pleasant than plain headphone listening . Using channel mixer I found that reducing stereo image to 0.73 or so yielded a detailed soundstage like Bs2b but with more spacial 3D.

Settings:

Channels = 6
stereo image width = 0.73
Upmix = copy
center = 0.45
sub = 1.00
rear = 1.05

Title: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: shadowking on 2015-05-09 10:48:36
Unfortunately, After a while most of my experiments started to disappoint . I arrived at some other better settings. The biggest surprise is the channel mixer delay settings. I played with them for a while and thought it was better on than off - another step closer to speakers. Typically, I would set a the same positive value on the front and rear channels. Last week i experimented more and set a slightly higher value for the center channel. I think the results are astonishing. This is the most critical parameter for me as without the delay there is still a headphone sound although wider.

FL = 1M
FR = 1M
C = 1.34M
RL= 1 M
RR=1M

Alternative:

FL = 0.05M
FR = 0.05M
C = 0.07 ~ 0.08M
RL= 0.05M
RR=0.05M

Channels = 6 [minus rear center]
stereo image width = 1.00
Upmix = copy
center = 0.55
sub = 0
rear = 0.70
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: mzso on 2018-01-24 15:36:07
Hi!

So, since Yirkha was last active in 2012 I guess this plugin is essentially abandoned?

Since I use this DSP to process files converted to my phone I just wanted to bring up that there's a (IMO) superior virtual surront dsp thanks to TH Köln (http://audiogroup.web.th-koeln.de/ku100nfhrir.html) and musicreo (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112100.msg946438.html#msg946438) who converted it to be usable with EqualizerAPO (https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21ANohIPEaJXkyXKY&id=896E01D482F1CE76%21981&cid=896E01D482F1CE76).
So I was wondering if this could be added to the plugin, or a similar sibling foobar plugin could be created for it, which I can use in foobar
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: tjnewton on 2021-04-15 19:32:18
Am aware there hasn't been a lot of discussion in this forum for some time, but I've recently started listening to 5.1 files on my headphones with Foobar and the Dolby wrapper. What I'm curious about is whether I also need to add Freesurround or Channel Mixer into the mix as well, or, since my files are already 5.1, do I just need to use DHW by itself?
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: sveakul on 2021-04-15 20:19:06
Am aware there hasn't been a lot of discussion in this forum for some time, but I've recently started listening to 5.1 files on my headphones with Foobar and the Dolby wrapper. What I'm curious about is whether I also need to add Freesurround or Channel Mixer into the mix as well, or, since my files are already 5.1, do I just need to use DHW by itself?
If the files are already 5.1 you just need DHW as there's no need to upmix anything in that case.
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Fool_on_the_hill on 2022-10-09 12:01:50
Any chance to see a new version for foobar2000 2.0?
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Chibisteven on 2022-10-10 05:14:30
Any chance to see a new version for foobar2000 2.0?

This component is a DSP component.  It should work with the 32-bit version of foobar2000 2.0 just fine.
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Fool_on_the_hill on 2022-10-12 18:08:21
Any chance to see a new version for foobar2000 2.0?

This component is a DSP component.  It should work with the 32-bit version of foobar2000 2.0 just fine.
But foobar2000 2.0 is a 64-bit app...
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: sveakul on 2022-10-12 18:16:14
Click the "32-bit" link on the download site:
(https://i.imgur.com/yaOBZCO.png)
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Cannonaire on 2023-01-25 11:09:42
Is there going to be a version of this plugin for 64-bit foobar2000? I'm planning on switching to 64-bit after v2.0 final comes out. My concern is that this might not be possible since the required Dolby Headphone dll is 32-bit... I don't know much about coding, but is it possible for such a thing to work? Thank you.
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: sveakul on 2023-01-25 18:36:55
If the plugin conversion never happens, you can try a different effect combination out right now to see if that would be a suitable substitute.  For example, the built-in "Upmix to 5.1" DSP into the now-free jb_isone_pro_surround.dll VST (https://plugins4free.com/plugin/2069/ (https://plugins4free.com/plugin/2069/)).  The latter is 32-bit but the Foobar VST adapter will handle either/or on the Foobar v2 in use.  I have used the Dolby wrapper and found it pretty inflexible compared to this alternative.
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Cannonaire on 2023-01-28 21:51:21
If the plugin conversion never happens, you can try a different effect combination out right now to see if that would be a suitable substitute.  For example, the built-in "Upmix to 5.1" DSP into the now-free jb_isone_pro_surround.dll VST (https://plugins4free.com/plugin/2069/ (https://plugins4free.com/plugin/2069/)).  The latter is 32-bit but the Foobar VST adapter will handle either/or on the Foobar v2 in use.  I have used the Dolby wrapper and found it pretty inflexible compared to this alternative.
I don't really use Dolby Headphone all the time - I have a different crossfeed I like for most music. But sometimes I like the sound of Dolby Headphone specifically, like when I listen to the music from Deus Ex or some other things. Having Dolby Headphone on the 64-bit version would just be really nice, even if there are alternatives that are technically better.
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: marc2k3 on 2023-01-28 21:56:47
There is no source posted in the thread and the last person to update this hasn't signed in with their account since 2012.

Do you really need 64bit fb2k 2.0? Probably not...
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Fool_on_the_hill on 2023-03-23 04:33:33
Dolby Headphone is the best 3D DSP for diffuse field calibrated headphones (like Sennheiser HD600, HD650, Etymotic) for neutral sound imo. Dolby Atmos is awful on diffuse field calibrated headphones.
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Cannonaire on 2023-07-18 21:29:41
In the event that a 64 bit version of this were made, is there even a 64 bit dolby headphone dll that it could work with?
Title: Re: Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP
Post by: Reiginsei on 2024-01-22 02:15:51
For 5.1 audio files, the Dolby Headphone Wrapper does not accept SL SR for the surround channels.

The FB2K console prints a message that the plugin cannot process audio beyond 5.1 channels.

AC3/DTS 5.1 will not work with Dolby Headphone Wrapper, unless you remap SL SR to BL BR with matrix mixer.

The VU meter should show only 2 output channels when the plugin is working properly.