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Topic: Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary? (Read 87269 times) previous topic - next topic
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Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #275 –
Quote from: ajinfla on
Quote from: greynol on
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-the...ml#post37191770

Hah, another funny thread, missed that one. "Prove my sighted believer evaluations wrong" - the studiophile/audiophile mantra. 
Clearly after 11 pages, evidence is, shall we say, a bit lacking. The dance floor remains open however....


Here's an interesting paragraph from a paper that AJ has been praising:

Toole: The Measurement and Calibration of Sound
Reproducing Systems

"Over the years a few investigators have attempted to identify
advantageous room curve targets for small rooms. However
the studies that the author is aware of have been compromised
by a lack of adequate loudspeaker measurements
and/or information about the room acoustics. No doubleblind
listening tests appear to have been done so there are
no trustworthy subjective evaluations. Consequently, the
resulting targets can be challenged"

On the one hand it supports AJ's contention that sighted evaluations can be argued with, but on the other hand it supports  my contention that DBTs in this area are very difficult or impossible to do right, so there haven't been any.

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #276 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Arnold ABX. Krueger: Obviously, a listening methodology with a high propensity for false positives such as sighted evaluations.

On the one hand it supports "AJ's contention" that sighted evaluations can be argued with

That isn't "my contention"Krueger.


Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
my contention that DBTs in this area are very difficult or impossible to do right, so there haven't been any.

Loudspeaker manufacturer

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #277 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
On the one hand it supports AJ's contention ...

This person seems to be in denial even about the efficacy and necessity of room treatment.

So there is no point in talking about the how, when being still stuck at the why.


Waiting for the next ...
"I hear it when I see it."

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #278 –
Quote from: xnor on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
On the one hand it supports AJ's contention ...

This person seems to be in denial even about the efficacy and necessity of room treatment.

So there is no point in talking about the how, when being still stuck at the why.


Waiting for the next ...



It seems to be getting worse and worse.

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #280 –
Quote from: xnor on
This person seems to be in denial even about the efficacy and necessity of room treatment.


Never said they were not necessary for studiophile believers. Actually the opposite. I've always encouraged those stricken with the disorder to seek/apply as much "treatments" as possible:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-the...ml#post22250017
It's just the typical knee jerk responses/salespitch about necessity for non-studiophiles and the absurd anti-science claims I take issue with.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #282 –
Quote from: Kees de Visser on
Quote from: ajinfla on
Nice violin, but it would sound better in a more reverberant space.

Oh after 12 pages of hysterical sobbing and whining, the sound is coming through quite clearly. In lieu of a shred of valid evidence of course.
Kees, has this sort of reliable evidence made any inroads with the studio folks? Or is causing the type of hysterics and denial as seen in these threads?

cheers,

AJ
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #284 –
Quote from: ajinfla on
It's just another one of AJ's habitual lies.

"I said it, but didn't say it then"

Oh the temerity!

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #285 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
I'll stand by that statement

You better: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-the...ml#post21816304
It was obviously "bad" arnyk, your other persona. The one that hates Toole, dismisses his body of work and mountain of references, dismisses any valid evidence to the contrary if it conflicts with belief, or might harm sales of peddlers, etc, etc.
Now how to reconcile that studiophile belief with incessant posting in a thread which specifically asks for valid reliable evidence/DBT for "treatments" efficacy, when you dismiss blind tests in favor of "authority" sighted "listening", well...
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #286 –
Quote from: ajinfla on
efficacy

I hope you realize you've left a gaping hole in how others interpret what you're saying.

efficacy: sound treatments make an audible difference

-or-

efficacy: sound treatments make an audible improvement in subjective preference as determined by objective means

???

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #287 –
Of course, with the natural progression of the disorder, we are now being told that the floor of the cell must also be thickly padded.
We might actually be in agreement here!


The words "binaural perception", "adaptation", "blind listening tests", "source directivity/polar response" etc, etc. are nowhere to be found.
There are some pretty cool "diagrams" of some sort of omni-directional laser firing "sound" source being used to sort this all out. Great stuff.

But if "we" want to hear what the studiophiles "heard in studio", ummm, "accurately", there seems to be something missing here....


Hmmm, what could it be....?
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #288 –
Quote from: greynol on
Quote from: ajinfla on
efficacy

I hope you realize you've left a gaping hole in how others interpret what you're saying.

efficacy: sound treatments make an audible difference

-or-

efficacy: sound treatments make an audible improvement in subjective preference as determined by objective means

???


Like this:
ef·fi·ca·cy
?ef?k?s?/
noun: efficacy
the ability to produce a desired or intended result.


The intended result is always touted "improvement".

cheers,

AJ
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Bass Traps and Other Treatments: Why so frequently assumed necessary?

Reply #289 –
Right, but it is painfully inconvenient for people to do something other than interpret "intended result" as "makes an audible change" and then project logical fallacies.