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Topic: Just had my first contact with an iPod (Read 29254 times) previous topic - next topic
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Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #50 –
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I picked the X5L based on long battery life, strong reviews on sound quality, and support for MP3/FLAC/OGG/WMA. An id3 tag database with browsing, gapless playback, and final implementation of DRM 10 support would make this a near-perfect DAP (mechanical design flaws aside).

Thanks for listening. Hope this is useful to anyone searching for their next DAP.
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thanks you for posting, it is very usefull indeed.

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It seems the Rockbox project is making good progress on the iPod port.  Once that's done all the Rockboxers and iPoders can join hands and live in harmony.

cool, yes.

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ignore this, it pays to read the entire post when responding.
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good point

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #51 –
If I may wade in here, sound quality is not a point of distinction between the new iPod and the X5. The two represent probably the most similar products I've ever come across in that regard with a very small, virtually academic advantage for the iPod, and on the downside the EQ grains up the sound to equal levels on both machines. I use a combination of the Sony Qualia 010, Ultimate Ears UE-10Pro and the Sennheiser HD25-1 headphones out of portables.


I have a large collection of properly tagged music since they've all been ripped by me, so the X5's method of organisation doesn't offer any real advantages to me. In fact, it was a disadvantage. I sold the X5 recently and am happy with iPod. It has fewer functional tics and does what it does (limited in comparison to the X5) with no oddities, workarounds, etc. The navigation speed is a bit of a letdown after the 4G / Nano but at least it does still buffer your presses, which makes it a bit better once you know the menu structure.


I'll miss the remote on the X5, but since that noticeably screws up the sound perhaps not that much 


The 30Gb iPod is less than half the thickness of the 30Gb X5L, and it's still nearly half when cased with a tough Agent 18. Battery life is more than sufficient for commutes, while in my case a Tekkeon battery pack provides additional, X5L-beating power on flights, also giving me a functional line out for amping purposes if necessary. Yamipod provides loading / unloading functionality away from a copy of iTunes.


The video was a murky jerky joke on the X5, while it is surprisingly watchable (if I had to) on the iPod. However I wouldn't use it... get a PVP/PSP for that.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #52 –
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*yawns* what a useless topic of discussion. It only serves for eliciting zealot posts. You like iPod, good for you & enjoy it. Please try to post facts than biased opinions. After all, this is HA not Apple fan boards.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352919"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Would you have jumped in and said the same if it were a thread on, well, anything non-Apple? And what would "facts" be when discussing DAPs? Spec sheets? As has been pointed out, all the companies have very different approaches, so it can be useful for new buyers to read opinions from actual owners.

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I bought a new iPod Video 30GB for my wife. It is quite okay when compared to a Rio Karma.

Bottomline: There are better DAPs out there. You just have to look around.

Great analysis!

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #53 –
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I'll miss the remote on the X5, but since that noticeably screws up the sound perhaps not that much  



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I'm glad to hear from someone who has heard both the X5 and the Ipod 5th gen.  Did you do any ABX tests with them??  Also, I was wondering about this issue with the remote.  One of the things that made me lean toards the X5 was the remote.  What exactly does it do the the audio quality???

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #54 –
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I'm glad to hear from someone who has heard both the X5 and the Ipod 5th gen.  Did you do any ABX tests with them??  Also, I was wondering about this issue with the remote.  One of the things that made me lean toards the X5 was the remote.  What exactly does it do the the audio quality???
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I first adopted a comfortable listening level for the X5. I then level-matched both portables to within 0.2db (the closest I could get in other words) given volume steps on the X5 and employed an audio switch hooked up without looking which was which. The Sony Qualia 010 (fitted with the factory cable, for portable use I use a shortened custom cable) was used, arguably the world's most accurate headphone. I also do plug & unplug tests, etc.


I've compared a lot of portables using similar methods now, and I have to say that the 5G and X5 are very, very close. Practically speaking, there was no real winner.




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Also, I was wondering about this issue with the remote.  One of the things that made me lean toards the X5 was the remote.  What exactly does it do the the audio quality???
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It very noticeably decreases the dynamic range and roughens up the sound by a bit. More so than a Sony remote for example. I had a listen through another X5 remote, and I got exactly the same results. It's noticeable with even fairly cheap phones. I should have measured it or done something else but it was just obvious so I didn't pursue it further, just stopped using the remote. The remote would have been useful for when amped, but the X5's line out isn't that hot. For casual commuting use etc it could be an acceptable tradeoff I guess.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #55 –
@ bhangraman

what iPod case are you using?
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #56 –
hey, got a nano and hooked up to my black box (sharp sd-sg11) and it is great... even with hq, distortion is not much a factor... but that sort of distortion is not fault of ipod only, any machine will distort with gain up too much... eq is gain, in certain areas, boost too much depending on song and bai bai smooth sound.  love the nano.  was impressed by many many others, but small and no jumping tracks and certainly smaller than my dr7 md recorder, though that was my little child..

cannot go wrong with nano, imho..

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #57 –
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I first adopted a comfortable listening level for the X5. I then level-matched both portables to within 0.2db (the closest I could get in other words) given volume steps on the X5 and employed an audio switch hooked up without looking which was which. The Sony Qualia 010 (fitted with the factory cable, for portable use I use a shortened custom cable) was used, arguably the world's most accurate headphone. I also do plug & unplug tests, etc.


I've compared a lot of portables using similar methods now, and I have to say that the 5G and X5 are very, very close. Practically speaking, there was no real winner.


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    ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the kind of comparison I've been waiting for!!  At first I heard that the X5 was much better, but as I tried to weed through all the useless "podboys" and "anti-podboys", I came to see that they are considered very similar by a lot of unbiased listeners.  This was a very helpful test/post.  Thanks!!! 
    By the way, I'm glad you mentioned the issue with the remote.  I actually plan on listening to my DAP in quiet environments REALLY listening to it  .  . . not just using it as a "commute to work on the subway" thing, so the sort of degredation you're describing sounds pretty bad.  I guess I'm  on the fence still (won't have the cash for a DAP for a little bit anyway).  Think I'm leaning (gulp) Ipod 5th gen.

    Many thanks from a person trying very hard to be unbiased  towards ipods.  It's hard to buck the anti-ipod feelings, but when the player's got what ya need  .  .  .

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #58 –
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If I may wade in here, sound quality is not a point of distinction between the new iPod and the X5. The two represent probably the most similar products I've ever come across in that regard with a very small, virtually academic advantage for the iPod...


I would personally like to thank you for "wading in".  The kind of objective information you provided might have altered my decision, but I am hoping Cowon gets their act together and improves usability (id3 browsing) of the X5. Bummed to hear about the remote, as I just ordered one! The X5 does have OGG support, FM tuner, and (beta) compatibility with Yahoo music (which I want to use to investigate new artists), so I cannot second guess myself at this stage.

Gracias!

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #59 –
I like the remote for what it does. It's the most informative one out there, so it was a bit of a shame. For throwing on the PX200's, K26P or whatever for example while commuting... well, you're not going to worry about ultimate quality so it was acceptable. But the majority of my time with the portables are spent with the Qualia and the HD25, and the dynamic loss and additional scratchiness is unfortunately emphasised by both phones because of their response.


As far as a remote for the iPod goes, I was intrigued to see a wireless display remote which might be out in the first quarter. It goes on the dock so the headphone port is still free, and it has a dock pass-through so that line out should still be free. I'm sure it won't be as good as the X5's remote in terms of what it does and it probably won't allow full navigation, but it seemed interesting.


I ought to say that the test was carried out both amped and unamped. With the X5, the Line Out of the subpack has a known issue so it was compared out of both the LO and the headphone out amped (full vol, all fx/eq off) method. I have to say that the LO is not as terrible as later measurements seemed to bear out (the bendy line on the graph did not seem that bendy in real life  ) but it as nevertheless lacking substance in the lows as well as appearing somewhat cloudy. With the headphone out amped though, once again it was pretty much on a par with the 5G's Line Out through a Pocketdock.


The choice between the X5 and the iPod these days seems to come down solely to the features on offer and the way they work. Obviously there is the placebo and 'I bought it so it must be the best' aspect, but it seems to me that core sound quality is not the measure of selection of these two players. Sonically, EQ will have a bearing in the feature comparison since the iPod still has non-adjustable presets, but since both do X5 and iPod EQ's muck up the effective sound quality to a similar extent, those searching for the best in portable sound will invariably stay off the EQ making that comparison redundant.


Jojo, the one inthe pic is the zCover. As of late I'm using the Agent 18 Videoshield.


I hope to get the Zen Vison M as soon as it's generally available over here and not being sold at a premium.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #60 –
I think there's another point also for the iPods. They are mainstream and their defects are known. The iAudio are probably less tested and their potential hidden problems (mecanical, rare sound problems, battery, support availability ...) could be unknown at the moment.

In fact I bought an iPod Photo mainly because I know all its downs, limitations. I've already been trapped once by an Archos player which appeared later to have a widespread soldering problem on many sold players, and I couldn't get to send it for repair because of some seller problems. In fact I could not send the player directly to Archos because, at this time, they only accepted support requests from retailers.
So, to sum up, do not focus only on sound quality and visibible functionalities, other issues could happen.
Stupidity is root of all evil.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #61 –
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I think there's another point also for the iPods. They are mainstream and their defects are known. The iAudio are probably less tested and their potential hidden problems (mecanical, rare sound problems, battery, support availability ...) could be unknown at the moment.

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    Good point.  I was thinking about that the other day.  With a company that does not sell in retail stores (brick and mortar), it's harder to deal with issues when they do come up.  The flip side is the product could have less problems than ipods.  I guess it's a coin flip.
    Speaking of unknowns, does anyone here have any knowledge of the Wolverine MVP-9100  100 gb player?  I think they also make a 60gb and maybe lower.  The layout is a little like the H1xx series with a stick in the , middle.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #62 –
note about firmwares, there is an Ipod firmware, that is basically a modification that allows you to run either iPods firmware, or uLinux, it is not working on newer ipods but its progressing good: http://www.ipodlinux.org/blog

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #63 –
thank you so much for your comparision. I always knew the g5 cannot sound any better and its good to hear that it cant.

To all ipod ownes swithc of album art. It slows down your ipod, going from track 1 to 2 by not skipping just listening is quicker, skipping songs is quicker and less battery drain.

regards

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #64 –
One point I haven't heard a lot of discussion on is the ipod's weak battery life.  I've had a 30GB ipod photo (4G?, the model that preceded the latest) for about 8 months now and my actual battery life is about half that Apple claims.  Just scrolling through menus on the color screen causes the battery meter to drop!  (and no, I don't leave the backlight on).

This is coupled by the wonderful phenomenon of my ipod "resetting" if it remains dormant for a +/- 24 hour span = a 30-40 second apple logo screen (of death) and loss of my place in whatever album/playlist I was in the middle of.  Of course this is accompanied by a steep loss in remaining power as well.

On these two issues alone I would not buy another ipod.

I cringe at the thought of what video does for an ipod's battery life.
Could any 30GB/60GB video users speak to it's in-practice battery life (vs. Apple's claims)?

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #65 –
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This is coupled by the wonderful phenomenon of my ipod "resetting" if it remains dormant for a +/- 24 hour span = a 30-40 second apple logo screen (of death) and loss of my place in whatever album/playlist I was in the middle of.  Of course this is accompanied by a steep loss in remaining power as well.


The display of the Apple logo, the longer wake up time and loss of place (if you don't have a 'hibernating' model) are all expected behaviours:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60945

Though having said that, 30-40 seconds is a *long* time, and I'm not sure what you mean by "of death" as that would generally suggest a reboot was needed. iPod reboots are not out of the question but if it happens every time your iPod goes into deep sleep then it sounds like something's broken.

One thing I've noticed about iPod battery is that the meter is highly unreliable, often taking a while after undocking or switching on to hit it's real level. If you're trying to gauge battery life by eyeballing the meter you may want to bear that in mind or try actually timing it with a stopwatch.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #66 –
Thanks for the link bawjaws, seems the phenomenon I described is in fact "deep sleep."  And to think all this time I just wanted to turn my ipod "off."    After further thought the 30-40 seconds is probably an overzealous overestimate of wake-up time, though it certainly feels that long. 

I am still only getting about 3 to 5 hours of playing time on a full charge (no stopwatch, just a rough estimate based on # of albums listened to), depending of course on my ipod's sleeping habits.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #67 –
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I am still only getting about 3 to 5 hours of playing time on a full charge (no stopwatch, just a rough estimate based on # of albums listened to), depending of course on my ipod's sleeping habits.
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Is that with MP3, AAC or ALAC ?

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #68 –
All right. I finally broke down and purchased an Apple iPod 5th gen 30GB. My main player up until now has been the iRiver H120 loaded with Rockbox. The H120 is still a remarkable player (thank you Rockbox) for doing what matters most; playing music and playing it well.

Why did I get an iPod? I've been holding off on getting one because (1) they're so popular and I hate following the crowd, and (2) Apple is starting to remind me of a certain other company's remarkable success in the computer industry as well as a big blue retail chain. But! I can't discount a player if it's a good player. Which it is, IMHO. I won't talk sound quality, even though I have a preference, because I haven't done any tests to back it up.

I will say that I'm happy with the iPod because it is very easy to navigate, looks aethistically impeccable, and does quite a lot of things. The color screen is quite nice and is slightly larger than 4th gen models. I'm even impressed with it's ability to play H.264 / AVC videos, although that's pretty much for bragging rights as the battery will only last 2 hours while playing them. My next test will be to encode MPEG 4 files and see how long the battery lasts on those. I'll have to up the bitrate, but with 30GBs of space, I'm willing to sacrifice a little space if I can play at least a couple of 2 hour movies before I have to worry about a recharge.

And to top it off, I'm gambling that Rockbox will continue to progress as wonderfully as they have so far, and flesh out the coding on the iPod.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #69 –
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I am still only getting about 3 to 5 hours of playing time on a full charge (no stopwatch, just a rough estimate based on # of albums listened to), depending of course on my ipod's sleeping habits.
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That really sucks. I just got my wife a 5gen 30gb ipod for Christmas, and we tested the battery today. After a full charge from last night, it lasted 12.25 hours of continuous mp3 playing (ranging from 128 cbr to --ape). This was using no backlight, but with album art loading from the files.

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #70 –
Very interesting discussion.  I'm 100% in love with my Karma, but since Rio folded I've  been wondering what my next player will be if/when my Karma dies.

Quick question for X5 owners:  I've been told that the X5 has a 9,999 file limit -- is that true?  If so, it would seem to be a major disadvantage of  the X5 (especially the 60GB version) over the iPod. 

I have ~3500 files on my 20GB Karma (a combination of -q6 ogg vorbis music files and -q2 ogg vorbis audiobook files), so surpassing the 9,999 level on a 60 GB player doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me.  It saddens me to say this, but if my Karma died tomorrow (and I couldn't buy a refurb), I think I'd probably re-convert everything from flac to mp3 and go with the iPod.
Rio Karma --> e4

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #71 –
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One point I haven't heard a lot of discussion on is the ipod's weak battery life.  I've had a 30GB ipod photo (4G?, the model that preceded the latest) for about 8 months now and my actual battery life is about half that Apple claims.  Just scrolling through menus on the color screen causes the battery meter to drop!  (and no, I don't leave the backlight on).


If your iPod still has warranty (or AppleCare) coverage, you should be able to get the battery replaced for free (you can only do this once).

If you don't have a warranty, this page will help you out: http://www.apple.com/support/ipod/service/battery/


I think if the battery life drops below 50% of it's capacity, you can get it replaced.

Also if you have the EQ and/or SoundCheck on, that chews up battery life. Not to your extreme, but it might be part of the problem.
iTunes 10 - Mac OS X 10.6
256kbps AAC VBR
iPhone 4 32GB

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #72 –
the only thing i don't like about ipod in particular, is the propietary batteries, i really prefer normal ones. how much life should i spect from it, before need to change it?

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #73 –
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the only thing i don't like about ipod in particular, is the propietary batteries, i really prefer normal ones. how much life should i spect from it, before need to change it?
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The latest iPod models get between 12-20 hours a charge, depending on the model and your demands on it (video for example only lasts 4 hours if I recall right, EQ and SoundCheck cause it to take up more juice, etc.).
iTunes 10 - Mac OS X 10.6
256kbps AAC VBR
iPhone 4 32GB

Just had my first contact with an iPod

Reply #74 –
Ugh, thanks again for the advice everyone, I did get my 30GB photo last March so thinking I'll pursue this under the Limited Warranty.  Now where did I put that serial number & receipt again? 

The more I think about it I guess I'm just another frustrated user about my ipod's inability to hold a decent charge.  I'm also of the opinion that Apple makes (or has made in the past) inflated claims as to the battery life of ipods.  Maybe they're accurate  under certain conditions (soundcheck, EQ, albumart, & backlight off?) but it would be nice to at least see them substantiated in some way.

I also find it rather smug of apple not to at least try to develop an ipod with a user-replaceable battery, I mean why have the customer buy a replacement battery when they could just buy a next-gen. ipod?

Again these are only my personal opinions.