Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS? (Read 5303 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

OPUS has been here for a while and has one of the best efficiencies among lossy codecs. It's even open source so no royalties...

So why is the adoption rate for OPUS in DAPs so abysmal?

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #1 –
The firmware of Xduoo X3ii supports Opus.
Players with Rockbox on them, of course do, too.

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: pr0m3th3u5 on
So why is the adoption rate for OPUS in DAPs so abysmal?

Same reason it was abysmal for Vorbis. Where's the incentive for manufacturers?  MP3 and AAC still hold the lion's share of the market, which is shrinking for dedicated DAPs anyway, as most people will happily use their phone/etc.

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #3 –
Right.   Digital music is distributed on CDs, MP3 (Amazon) and AAC (Apple).  If you want your Taylor Swift album in Opus you'll have to convert it yourself.

It's not a big deal for a manufacturer to add a CODEC to their firmware but the support costs might not be worth the slight-additional sales.    If they thought it would be profitable I'm sure they'd do it!  ;)

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #4 –
Same old story of "there's no demand".  No demand because it doesn't exist.  AAC is popular because people were more or less forced to use it, not because there was a massive clamour for it.  Depressing.

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #5 –
Probably 2 weeks after the last DAP is made...

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: lithopsian on
Same old story of "there's no demand".  No demand because it doesn't exist.  AAC is popular because people were more or less forced to use it, not because there was a massive clamour for it.  Depressing.

And AAC/MP3 are mature codecs i don't see the point on anything outside MP3/AAC at the 160 ~ 256kbps area. Vorbis/Opus still suffer from windy puff artifact & need above 320kbps to fix it which shows in some tracks in my collection.
Got locked out on a password i didn't remember. :/

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Heliologue on
Quote from: pr0m3th3u5 on
So why is the adoption rate for OPUS in DAPs so abysmal?

Same reason it was abysmal for Vorbis. Where's the incentive for manufacturers?  MP3 and AAC still hold the lion's share of the market, which is shrinking for dedicated DAPs anyway, as most people will happily use their phone/etc.
Support for Vorbis was slow to materialize, but it's there now. I think the bigger overlap is with the cost of drive space much cheaper that there's less incentive for newer lossy formats. People can download FLACs of their favorite tunes, and play as is on a FiiO device for under $100.

Quote from: ani_Jackal3 on
Quote from: lithopsian on
Same old story of "there's no demand".  No demand because it doesn't exist.  AAC is popular because people were more or less forced to use it, not because there was a massive clamour for it.  Depressing.

And AAC/MP3 are mature codecs i don't see the point on anything outside MP3/AAC at the 160 ~ 256kbps area. Vorbis/Opus still suffer from windy puff artifact & need above 320kbps to fix it which shows in some tracks in my collection.
What kind of tracks? I've never had a windy puff artifact problem with Vorbis at 268 kbps VBR aoTuV.

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: ajp9 on
Quote from: Heliologue on
Quote from: pr0m3th3u5 on
So why is the adoption rate for OPUS in DAPs so abysmal?

Same reason it was abysmal for Vorbis. Where's the incentive for manufacturers?  MP3 and AAC still hold the lion's share of the market, which is shrinking for dedicated DAPs anyway, as most people will happily use their phone/etc.
Support for Vorbis was slow to materialize, but it's there now. I think the bigger overlap is with the cost of drive space much cheaper that there's less incentive for newer lossy formats. People can download FLACs of their favorite tunes, and play as is on a FiiO device for under $100.

Quote from: ani_Jackal3 on
Quote from: lithopsian on
Same old story of "there's no demand".  No demand because it doesn't exist.  AAC is popular because people were more or less forced to use it, not because there was a massive clamour for it.  Depressing.

And AAC/MP3 are mature codecs i don't see the point on anything outside MP3/AAC at the 160 ~ 256kbps area. Vorbis/Opus still suffer from windy puff artifact & need above 320kbps to fix it which shows in some tracks in my collection.
What kind of tracks? I've never had a windy puff artifact problem with Vorbis at 268 kbps VBR aoTuV.

Merzbow - Kongara, Need 350kbps aoTuV to sound fine. But 192kbps AAC/MP3 sound fine.
Got locked out on a password i didn't remember. :/

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: ani_Jackal3 on
And AAC/MP3 are mature codecs i don't see the point on anything outside MP3/AAC at the 160 ~ 256kbps area. Vorbis/Opus still suffer from windy puff artifact & need above 320kbps to fix it which shows in some tracks in my collection.
Can You provide a sample (up to 30 seconds) where Vorbis/Opus have such artifact? You can upload it here https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?board=35.0

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #10 –
iBasso DX160, HiBy R6 Pro and Sony NW-ZX507 all support Opus.
 

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #11 –
Are dedicated DAPs with fully custom software even needed these days? Everything can just run Android. (where Opus support is built into the OS, and even if it's not usable for some reason, you can install a player which supports it, such as foobar2000 for Android)
a fan of AutoEq + Meier Crossfeed

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: magicgoose on
Are dedicated DAPs with fully custom software even needed these days? Everything can just run Android. (where Opus support is built into the OS, and even if it's not usable for some reason, you can install a player which supports it, such as foobar2000 for Android)
Exactly. I just dusted off my wife's old Samsung A3, factory reset it, installed foobar2000 and added a load of Opus encoded tracks for my kids to use (instead of the 20 year portable CD player I recently found and they snatched and started using lol. AA batteries being used up like nobody's business!).

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #13 –
@ani_Jackal3

Quote from: IgorC on
Quote from: ani_Jackal3 on
And AAC/MP3 are mature codecs i don't see the point on anything outside MP3/AAC at the 160 ~ 256kbps area. Vorbis/Opus still suffer from windy puff artifact & need above 320kbps to fix it which shows in some tracks in my collection.
Can You provide a sample (up to 30 seconds) where Vorbis/Opus have such artifact? You can upload it here https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?board=35.0

Also read Terms of Service.  More specifically TOS8:

Quote
TOS 8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must -- to the best of their ability -- provide objective support for their claims.  Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings.  Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.

Basically until moment You weren't able to provide any evidence of your claims.

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: magicgoose on
Are dedicated DAPs with fully custom software even needed these days? Everything can just run Android. (where Opus support is built into the OS, and even if it's not usable for some reason, you can install a player which supports it, such as foobar2000 for Android)
I don't know the validity of such claims, but there's people that say the Android OS gets in the way of resampling, pure audio path and probably some other things of which I don't recall. Eh, whatever. I prefer to have the option of installing any apps (or none at all) on my DAP and Android allows that.

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: clintb on
I don't know the validity of such claims, but there's people that say the Android OS gets in the way of resampling, pure audio path and probably some other things of which I don't recall.
 
People!? Who? Self-proclaimed audiophiles!?
Listen to the music, not the media it's on.
União e reconstrução

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: includemeout on
Quote from: clintb on
I don't know the validity of such claims, but there's people that say the Android OS gets in the way of resampling, pure audio path and probably some other things of which I don't recall.

People!? Who? Self-proclaimed audiophiles!?
If I were to guess, probably the same people claiming they NEED and can hear how much better 192/24 FLAC files sound. Oh, and don't forget the fully unfolding (of your wallet) MQA files. Gotta have them, too!

Re: When will DAPs start supporting OPUS?

Reply #17 –
I'm pretty sure that DAPs these days are either cheap crap competing only on price or audiophile stuff running android.

Generally the former doesn't really have the incentive to add niche stuff like Opus support and the latter can generally sideload 3rd party software unless they lock stuff down harder than the early Android phones sold by AT&T where you needed to use USB debugging to add software that wasn't from what was then called Android Market.