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Topic: Can we rip DVD-A's yet? (Read 22588 times) previous topic - next topic
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Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

From the gist of what I've read on Doom9, there is currently no way to rip DVD-A.

Is this true, or can I get some of the audio off of it at all?

Basically, I have Queen's A Night at the Opera on DVD-A.  I saw it at the store a year ago and thought it was pretty nifty.  But now I want to access those songs whenever I want w/o having to put it into a DVD player.

At this point, I don't care if I lose the 5.1 information, I just want some MPC backups.  Is there a way I can do this yet?

Thanks,

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #1
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Is there a way I can do this yet?

No, unless you connect the S/PDIF out of your DVD player to the S/PDIF in of your sound card.

Wouldn't be a really decent rip, but better than nothing.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #2
Also, doesn't DVD Audio limit you to analog output only? Or has this been hacked already?

If there is a solution for S/PDIF output with a Audigy 2 card and DVD-Audio, I would be glad to know of it. I have no plans whatsoever to connect my external amplifier with 6 analog cables to my computer.

I was cheated on this by Creative, that didn't print anything at all about this limitation exept in fine print. When I got the card, I thought I could send DVD-Audio to my amplifier via S/PDIF just as from the DVD movie player does. Boy was I angry when I found out about this limitation.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #3
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Also, doesn't DVD Audio limit you to analog output only? Or has this been hacked already?

If there is a solution for S/PDIF output with a Audigy 2 card and DVD-Audio, I would be glad to know of it. I have no plans whatsoever to connect my external amplifier with 6 analog cables to my computer.

I was cheated on this by Creative, that didn't print anything at all about this limitation exept in fine print. When I got the card, I thought I could send DVD-Audio to my amplifier via S/PDIF just as from the DVD movie player does. Boy was I angry when I found out about this limitation.

No such limitation to my knowledge.  I've been able to play said DVD in PowerDVD, and it puts out the SPDIF audio without a problem.  But this is on an nVidia based system.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #4
 PowerDVD can't play DVD-A.
There is only one DVD-A player software for PC : the Creative DVD-A player.


Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #6
Oh, it is a pure DVD Audio. But it got several different tracks, to get backwards compability.

PowerDVD can only decode DVD Video, which does contain quite an extensive spec for good audio to. The spec says 24/96 DTS, which is probably what PowerDVD decodes. It is quite impressive, I didn't know about any 24/96 DTS discs yet, as it is a very new spec from DTS.

Explained shortly, DVD Audio is maximum 24/192 for 2 channel, and 24/96 for multichannel. This is lossless compressed audio, which is the big difference. DTS offers the same multichannel spec (with its latest norm) at 24/96, but this is lossy compressed audio. I wasn't able to find their bitrate spec for 24/96 DTS (I imagine it is quite high), but standard DTS 16/48 is 768KBit or 1.509MBit. There is also a standard PCM soundtrack on the DVD-Audio you got.

So basically you can get very good audio, as the disc got DTS 24/96, but DVD Audio mode would be even better (in theory anyway).

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #7
I also read some discussion before about DVD Audio and analog output only. (It might have been on this forum even, I'm a bit forgetful) There was speculation that there might be a bandwidth limitation with 24/96 multichannel DVD Audio (uncompressed) over S/PDIF. There was talk about Firewire solutions for this in future DVD Audio players.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #8
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I wasn't able to find their bitrate spec for 24/96 DTS (I imagine it is quite high), but standard DTS 16/48 is 768KBit or 1.509MBit. There is also a standard PCM soundtrack on the DVD-Audio you got.

I read somewhere it was 4096kbps for 5.1 24/96 audio. But don't take my word for granted - I might be confused, and I don't remember where I saw it.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #9
There is some good reviews of DVD-A at
http://highfidelityreview.com/reviews/dvdaudio.asp

When I get a standalone DVD-A player (can't use my Audigy2 to play DVD-A with my amplifier, as it don't do S/PDIF then), I will certanly get a few of those. Eagles and ELP seems good, got good reviews.

I also found a discussion about MLP compression for DVD-A, and why Pink Floyd's album Dark Side of the Moon was released on SACD instead of DVD-A. Personally, I think its just bull, and that it was money which where the real reason.
http://highfidelityreview.com/features/mlp_encode.asp

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #10
is it technically possible to rip dvd-a and the encode it for example with vorbis to a 5.1 file ? (i know it's not possible yet but will it may be sometime?)

on sacds it is physically not possible i think (or am i wrong? )

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #11
I've just spent the last couple hours stabbing at this.

I can't even get at the LPCM (rather, I think I get at it, but I just get a bunch of static instead).  Even with this attempt at backwards compatiblity, I seemed to be screwed.

For those curious, I'm using DVDdecryptor, DVD2AVI, and BeSweet/azidts to try and get at these, and every variation seems to produce static (and only static).

I guess I'm SOL until someone figures out a way to crack CPPM

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #12
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is it technically possible to rip dvd-a and the encode it for example with vorbis to a 5.1 file ? (i know it's not possible yet but will it may be sometime?)

it's theoretically possible. You only need to decrypt and decode the MLP stream. Unfortunately, until now, there is neither decryptor nor decoder publicly available. (except the commercial ones, that limit what you can do with the stream)

Quote
on sacds it is physically not possible i think (or am i wrong? )


Right, PDM (DSD) is not processable by PCM encoders.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #13
Quote
Quote
is it technically possible to rip dvd-a and the encode it for example with vorbis to a 5.1 file ? (i know it's not possible yet but will it may be sometime?)

it's theoretically possible. You only need to decrypt and decode the MLP stream. Unfortunately, until now, there is neither decryptor nor decoder publicly available. (except the commercial ones, that limit what you can do with the stream)

Quote
on sacds it is physically not possible i think (or am i wrong? )


Right, PDM (DSD) is not processable by PCM encoders.

hm i guess this is an advantage of the dvd-a format. many people love to hear music on their pc, making playlists, burning own compilations and stuff. all this is not possible with sacd then (unless you use analog output which takes alot of time). with dvd-a maybe it will be sometime. even listening to 5.1 music on your pc.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #14
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hm i guess this is an advantage of the dvd-a format. many people love to hear music on their pc, making playlists, burning own compilations and stuff. all this is not possible with sacd then (unless you use analog output which takes alot of time). with dvd-a maybe it will be sometime. even listening to 5.1 music on your pc.

Actually, it's possible with SACD and much easier that with DVD-A, you just need to use the Red Book part.

Besides, ripping DVD-A is only a possibility so far, it's impossible to predict it we'll ever come across dome decrypter/decoder.

Decoding, specifically, would require some pretty heavy reverse engineering.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #15
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When I get a standalone DVD-A player (can't use my Audigy2 to play DVD-A with my amplifier, as it don't do S/PDIF then), I will certanly get a few of those. Eagles and ELP seems good, got good reviews.

Even if u use a standalone DVD-A player, u still only able to get analog output for the DVD-A track.
Break The Rules!!!

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #16
FWIW, the one DVD-Audio I have "Studio Voodoo" will also put out DTS 6.1 and
Dolby DIgital 2.0.  I think DTS sponsored the production and the Dolby 2.0 is just so
they can say it plays on any DVD player.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #17
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Quote
When I get a standalone DVD-A player (can't use my Audigy2 to play DVD-A with my amplifier, as it don't do S/PDIF then), I will certanly get a few of those. Eagles and ELP seems good, got good reviews.

Even if u use a standalone DVD-A player, u still only able to get analog output for the DVD-A track.

Yeah, thats true, I know that. I mentioned earlier that there was talk about a new digital interface for DVD-A, with enough bandwith. Maybe firewire or something like that.

But with my current setup, the computer is quite a bit away from the amp, and I don't wont to draw 6 new analog lines for it. But if I sometime get a DVD-player with DVD-A capability, it will be above the amp, and not so big hassle to use analog RCA cables.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #18
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Actually, it's possible with SACD and much easier that with DVD-A, you just need to use the Red Book part.

Some weeks ago I read somewhere that the redbook part of "Dark Side of the Moon" was much more compressed than the SACD part. Is this true?

And if yes, ripping this would not be an alternative.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #19
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Some weeks ago I read somewhere that the redbook part of "Dark Side of the Moon" was much more compressed than the SACD part. Is this true?

I never listened to the SACD part of Dark Side (I don't own a SACD player), but I have no problem with the RedBook part. Might not be the best remaster ever, but it isn't bad (IMO)

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #20
Quote
Quote
When I get a standalone DVD-A player (can't use my Audigy2 to play DVD-A with my amplifier, as it don't do S/PDIF then), I will certanly get a few of those. Eagles and ELP seems good, got good reviews.

Even if u use a standalone DVD-A player, u still only able to get analog output for the DVD-A track.

This isn't entirely true. Last i heard, and i'm not actually 100% up to date in this area at the moment, the only digital interface for DVD-A would be the 'DENON Digital Link 24/192', which connects from its flagship DVD player to its top of the line home cinema amplifier.
DVD-A1 DVD Player
AVC-A1SR Amplifier
The cost for buying both of these would be somewhere upwards of £3000 as i recall.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #21
Quote
Quote
on sacds it is physically not possible i think (or am i wrong? )


Right, PDM (DSD) is not processable by PCM encoders.

On a SACD there are physical watermark somewhere in the TOC. Unfortunately there exists no DVD ROM which can read the watermark.

So you can't even read the data off the SACD disc, not to mention how to process them...

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #22
Quote
Quote
Some weeks ago I read somewhere that the redbook part of "Dark Side of the Moon" was much more compressed than the SACD part. Is this true?

I never listened to the SACD part of Dark Side (I don't own a SACD player), but I have no problem with the RedBook part. Might not be the best remaster ever, but it isn't bad (IMO)

Here is a quote from Stereophile Magazine about this matter:

Quote
But as John Atkinson and others have found (see this issue's "As We See It"), it appears that, although they were likely sourced from the same analog tape, the new CD layer was processed differently during mastering from the stereo SACD layer. JA's graphs and analysis indicate that the CD layer was compressed and peak-limited a bit to make it sound more aggressive. Did they muck up the CD layer to make it sound inferior to the SACD, or were they just trying to make it "pop" more on CD-only systems and radio stations? Who knows?

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #23
Quote
Quote
Even if u use a standalone DVD-A player, u still only able to get analog output for the DVD-A track.
This isn't entirely true. [...] the only digital interface for DVD-A would be the 'DENON Digital Link 24/192'

He said analog, not digital 

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #24
Why are DVD-A's being manufactured using lossy compressors such as DTS & Dolby?  They may be good compressors in part because of their huge data-rates.. but isn't that partly defeating the purpouse of DVD-A in being the highest quality one can get?

This thread sparked me to venture to doom9 for the first time to try and decode an audio DVD my sister won, Orbital : The Altogether.  I'm under the impression it was one of the first 5.1 albums produced (~2001) and I didn't bother buying it on cd because of her winning this  (even though I only got a DVD player this year..)

I have found Sonic Foundry's Soft Encode a great tool, it decodes AC3 multichannel to wav's etc..  but sadly no DTS, so I'm not getting the highest quality files off there..

One question I have though - I can't extract the stereo files (there is Dolby 2.0 on the x81 channeL), so is there a "recommended" method of downmixing to stereo?  Going down to mono is easy, 50% left + 50% right..    but from 5 down to 2, there's lots of options

My guess would be...  100% Front Left + 50% Rear Left + 25% Center, and the same on the right, followed by normalizing them to a nice level..  What do more sensible people thing?
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