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Topic: Lame 3.98 beta 6 (Read 167739 times) previous topic - next topic
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Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #75 –
I tested my usual problem samples Birds, eig, harp40_1, herding_calls, lead_voice, trumpet, trumpet_myPrince with current 3.98b6 @ -V2, -V1, -V0, --abr 230.

One of the most remarkable things is that eig has improved even more. This extremely bad pre-echo sample is abxable of course, but quality for -V1 is so good that it isn't a practical problem to me. It's pretty good even with -V2.

Other than for eig everything was fine (not abxable) to me with -V0.
Quality scales well when going -V1, -V0. With -V1 for instance I can abx eig, harp40_1, and lead_voice. trumpet_myPrince is a bit on the edge (7/10). But quality is very good to me even with those tracks I can abx. -V2 is fine as well though inferior to -V1 as expected (I can clearly abx trumpet_myPrince, and trumpet is a bit on the edge).

I've liked to use ABR in the very high frequency range, but with this version ABR isn't an alternative any more for me. To me ABR 230 quality is very good too, but inferior to -V1 (with the exception of the tremolo problems lead_voice and trumpet_myPrince which however aren't too bad with -V1).
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #76 –
I have tested my velvetrealm sample. There is a noticeable improvement moving from V2 to V1 ... though V1 is still 100% abx-able. V0 shows no improvement to my ears on this sample.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #77 –
Quote from: john33 on
New builds just posted at Rarewares. Significant changes:

Quote
merger from test branch:
- features a new psy model, a modification from NSPSY

VBR NEW uses the new psy model, unless you call lame with --nspsytune, or
the developer only switch --psymodel x, with x in {1,2}


I thought VBR NEW was used by default since some time ago now? So is this the same "new" or a new "new" available since Lame 3.98 beta 6 only?
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #78 –
Quote from: Jojo on
I thought VBR NEW was used by default since some time ago now? So is this the same "new" or a new "new" available since Lame 3.98 beta 6 only?

vbr new was never default and still isn't, it just means that when you use vbr new it will use a new psy model.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #79 –
Quote from: enVias on
Quote from: Jojo on

I thought VBR NEW was used by default since some time ago now? So is this the same "new" or a new "new" available since Lame 3.98 beta 6 only?

vbr new was never default and still isn't, it just means that when you use vbr new it will use a new psy model.

yes it is, at least for some of the -V presets. I think since Lame 3.97 since it has been found superior in sound quality. So, is this new vbr-new mode a new algorithm and is it safe it use?
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Jojo on
yes it is, at least for some of the -V presets. I think since Lame 3.97 since it has been found superior in sound quality. So, is this new vbr-new mode a new algorithm and is it safe it use?

From the wiki:

Quote
The --vbr-new switch enables the new VBR mode. Lame will encode much faster than the old/default VBR mode. In terms of quality, --vbr-new appears to be better than the old model, but reports of artifacts when using the new model do exist. Despite these possible issues, --vbr-new is currently recommended over the default VBR mode due to both the speed and quality increases afforded by the new algorithm.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #81 –
from the changelog: "The newer VBR code is now LAME's default VBR routine"

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #82 –
Quote from: twostar on
from the changelog: "The newer VBR code is now LAME's default VBR routine"

ok, so vbr-new became the default setting since 3.98b1. anyway, back to the original question, what's up with that new vbr-new routine mentioned in beta 6?
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #83 –
Quote from: Jojo on
Quote from: twostar on

from the changelog: "The newer VBR code is now LAME's default VBR routine"

ok, so vbr-new became the default setting since 3.98b1. anyway, back to the original question, what's up with that new vbr-new routine mentioned in beta 6?


Are you asking what is meant by:

Quote
Fix for some rare scalefactor selection issue the newer vbr code had at low compression levels


Seems to be a minor bug that was caught and fixed.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #84 –
I did a short test (single sample, I know, kind of like anecdotal evidence) at -V9 and found the quality of the new beta slightly worse than the same file encoded with 3.98b4 (more distortion in the voice and guitar). In both cases, there is a loud "click" at the beginning of the track that is not audibly present in the original file. This click was only on the right channel with b4, and centered (and a bit quieter) with b6.

You can download the sample here.

Edit: The "click"-issue exists only with --vbr-new, it's gone when using --vbr-old. Also, it vanishes when you use -V9 but --resample to anything other than 24khz. It's not present with -V8 --resample 24000 either.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #85 –
Interesting update - Sun Dec 9 22:47:37 2007 UTC @ lame.cvs.sourceforge.net

merger from test branch:
  • features a new psy model, a modification from NSPSY
VBR NEW uses the new psy model, unless you call lame with --nspsytune, or the developer only switch --psymodel x, with x in {1,2}

features of the new psy model:
  • speed: it does determine the resulting block type before doing the fft and other psy stuff and will calc long/short blocks only as necessary
  • interchannel masking effect: it will be calculated after the mid-side fix and it's working on convolution bands, instead of scalefactor bands
  • mid-side fix: calculated on convolution bands, instead of sf bands
  • mask_adjust feature: it's now used earlier in the convolution calculation

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #86 –
The 'official' beta 6 is now at Rarewares.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #88 –
I just tried the offical Beta 6, its seems to be faster then 3.97 (3.97 = 24x - 25x  3.98b6 = 25x - 27x) at encoding on my Core 2 Duo E6600 CPU. Also the bitrates on a few encodes i did are just slight bigger then 3.97 by 1 - 3 kbps but alot smaller then the early 3.98 betas.

Stigmata V2

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.1 report
foobar2000 v0.9.5 beta 8
2007/12/17 11:53:32

File A: F:\Listen Tests\Stigmata LAME3.98b6 Offical V2.mp3
File B: F:\Listen Tests\Stigmata.wav

11:53:32 : Test started.
11:54:53 : 00/01  100.0%
11:55:33 : 01/02  75.0%
11:55:52 : 02/03  50.0%
11:56:09 : 03/04  31.3%
11:56:32 : 04/05  18.8%
11:56:51 : 04/06  34.4%
11:57:34 : 05/07  22.7%
11:58:16 : 05/08  36.3%
11:58:29 : 06/09  25.4%
11:58:52 : 07/10  17.2%
11:59:08 : 07/11  27.4%
11:59:48 : 08/12  19.4%
11:59:51 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 8/12 (19.4%)


This really sounds alot better then 3.90.3 and much much better the 3.97. I would find it transparent but i got a feeling that the bacground noise was faster and a possible warbling after a few secs where the precho would appear on lossy encode.

Die In A Crash (Sample) V2

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.1 report
foobar2000 v0.9.5 beta 8
2007/12/17 12:03:33

File A: F:\Listen Tests\Die In A Crash (Sample) LAME 3.98b6 Offical V 2.mp3
File B: F:\Listen Tests\Die In A Crash (Sample).wav

12:03:33 : Test started.
12:03:51 : 01/01  50.0%
12:04:03 : 02/02  25.0%
12:04:33 : 03/03  12.5%
12:04:55 : 04/04  6.3%
12:05:07 : 05/05  3.1%
12:05:12 : 06/06  1.6%
12:05:24 : 07/07  0.8%
12:06:01 : 08/08  0.4%
12:06:11 : 09/09  0.2%
12:06:21 : 10/10  0.1%
12:06:22 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 10/10 (0.1%)


A very easy to ABX artifact on the wierd noise at the start of the track around 0:03 - 0:06. Anyway a lossless sample can be found here if anyone would like to try it since it is a killer sample at V0 --vbr-new on 3.97.

Die In A Crash (Sample) V0

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.1 report
foobar2000 v0.9.5 beta 8
2007/12/17 12:06:46

File A: F:\Listen Tests\Die In A Crash (Sample) LAME 3.98b6 Offical V 0.mp3
File B: F:\Listen Tests\Die In A Crash (Sample).wav

12:06:46 : Test started.
12:07:58 : 01/01  50.0%
12:08:24 : 01/02  75.0%
12:09:03 : 01/03  87.5%
12:09:55 : 02/04  68.8%
12:10:18 : 03/05  50.0%
12:12:23 : 03/06  65.6%
12:13:23 : 03/07  77.3%
12:13:51 : 04/08  63.7%
12:14:21 : 05/09  50.0%
12:15:19 : 06/10  37.7%
12:15:48 : 06/11  50.0%
12:16:03 : 06/12  61.3%
12:16:08 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 6/12 (61.3%)


So far i recken its transparent, i had trouble trying to ABX this track at V0 on Beta 6 unlike 3.98b5 and 3.97.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #89 –
Quote from: john33 on
The 'official' beta 6 is now at Rarewares.

Thanks from me, too. Just interested: does this compile includes "fixing typo" in vbrquantize.c (Mon Dec 17 00:08:56 2007 UTC)?

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #90 –
any chances BETA 6 becoming 3.98 final? Or will we have to wait a whole year....

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #91 –
Quote from: MedO on
I did a short test (single sample, I know, kind of like anecdotal evidence) at -V9 and found the quality of the new beta slightly worse than the same file encoded with 3.98b4 (more distortion in the voice and guitar). In both cases, there is a loud "click" at the beginning of the track that is not audibly present in the original file. This click was only on the right channel with b4, and centered (and a bit quieter) with b6.

You can download the sample here.

Edit: The "click"-issue exists only with --vbr-new, it's gone when using --vbr-old. Also, it vanishes when you use -V9 but --resample to anything other than 24khz. It's not present with -V8 --resample 24000 either.

What player software are you using? I can't hear any loud click in the beginning of your sample. Maybe you can upload your encoded file too.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #92 –
Quote from: robert on
What player software are you using? I can't hear any loud click in the beginning of your sample. Maybe you can upload your encoded file too.


I used foobar2000 0.9.5 beta 5 for playback (tried beta 8 now with the same result). Winamp and the decoding function of lame itself work ok, as does an older version of Foobar. So it's probably my fault for trusting a beta version  . I can upload the encoded file as well as the version decoded by the foobar beta if you like, but it's probably rather a case for the foobar support forum.

Related to this: is there a recommended decoder for doing comparisons? I was under the impression that the differences between them were inaudible these days, but this problem gives me some doubts.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #93 –
Quote from: MedO on
I used foobar2000 0.9.5 beta 5 for playback (tried beta 8 now with the same result). Winamp and the decoding function of lame itself work ok, as does an older version of Foobar.

Well, yes it sounds like a problem of foobar then.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #94 –
Quote from: /mnt on
I just tried the offical Beta 6, its seems to be faster then 3.97 (3.97 = 24x - 25x  3.98b6 = 25x - 27x) at encoding on my Core 2 Duo E6600 CPU.

The 3.98 stable release will be a little bit faster too. Alpha and Beta versions do have some debugging code inside, which is disabled in stable releases. I for myself have no use of LAME's own replaygain calculation and add "--noreplaygain" to my commandlines, which makes encoding faster again.

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #95 –
Quote from: robert on
Quote from: MedO on

I did a short test (single sample, I know, kind of like anecdotal evidence) at -V9 and found the quality of the new beta slightly worse than the same file encoded with 3.98b4 (more distortion in the voice and guitar). In both cases, there is a loud "click" at the beginning of the track that is not audibly present in the original file. This click was only on the right channel with b4, and centered (and a bit quieter) with b6.

You can download the sample here.

Edit: The "click"-issue exists only with --vbr-new, it's gone when using --vbr-old. Also, it vanishes when you use -V9 but --resample to anything other than 24khz. It's not present with -V8 --resample 24000 either.

What player software are you using? I can't hear any loud click in the beginning of your sample. Maybe you can upload your encoded file too.

Yeah, I hear that click too in foobar.  I don't hear it on my ipod, though.
 

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #96 –
Can we get 3.98 final as a Christmas gift?

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #97 –
Quote from: Bourne on
Can we get 3.98 final as a Christmas gift?


From HA wiki:
Quote
LAME development began around mid-1998.

Maybe 3.98 final will be anniversary edition...     

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #98 –
I tested the EIG sample, and it's very good with 3.98b6. I cannot ABX it anymore at V0. (I could with 320CBR). Good work, and please RELEASE IT!

Lame 3.98 beta 6

Reply #99 –
Could you just stop telling lame developers how to handle development? Besides, this beta introduces changes to the psymodel - and you propose to do a stable release immediatelly afterwards without much public testing? Maybe better stick to the stuff which you understand: being a user.
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.