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Topic: Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise. (Read 12971 times) previous topic - next topic
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Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

I am now seriously considering buying either Ipod 120 gb (6th gen) or Zune 120. Any recommendations as other contenders that can match these two in means of sound quality and capacity are also welcome.

My first and foremost priorities are sound quality and gapless playback capability. I listen to progressive rock mostly and gapless playback is essential for this genre.

I don't care about video, games, marketplace, radio, wifi, interface etc. So here are my questions that I think will help me determine which one I should get; most of them are about Zune 120 as I know more about Ipod than Zune 120.

1. Does the gapless playback feature on Zune 120 work perfectly, or does it fail? There were some complaints regarding its not working well; have they fixed it?

2. I will be able to move all my mp3 files not downloaded from itunes or the zune marketplace into the Ipod or the zune, right? Or do these players only accept strore-bought/downloaded files?

3. Will I have to pay for any subscription to use these players? I do not intend to buy any files from these stores (I already have enough music on the hdd of my computer and my cd shelves), so will that be a problem? 

4. Will I have to pay for a subscription to be able to download firmware / software updates from these players' respective websites?

5. What features can be added to each device via mods or hacks that are not available on the original devices?

6. I know that the volume on the European 6th gen 120 gb Ipod is capped; I checked one and the volume was pretty low for me. The US version is said to be loud enough for anyone. How is the volume level on the Zune 120 (US version)? If anybody knows the volume levels of both machines in decibels, that would be great.

Lastly; this question is preferably for those who own or have owned both the 6th gen 120 gb Ipod and Zune 120 (or for those who had compared them):

7. In means of sound quality which one's better? Or is the difference negligable? (I do not intend to use an amp or anything other than earphones. So please do not include the +amp configuration in the comparison).   

Please tell me anything else that you think I should be taking into consideration when making my decision, excluding the facts about the Ipod having far more accessories, the Ipod store having a far bigger database of games, audio and video files for buying and the capability of being able to send files to other Zune users etc...

Thanks in advance.

Regards to all.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #1 –
Sorry, I'm not a Zune owner (and I realise your asking more about them, i'll just post what i know anyway incase there's something of usw), but for iPods...:

2. Yep should be no problem with standard mp3's, ipods will play m4a (mp4/aac), mp3, alac, wav (i think?), maybe a couple of others.

3. No subscription fees are required. To use the Itunes Music Store (if you're buying something, not just to use iTunes) you need to either provide a credit card number or buy a voucher, but there's no subscription fee.

4. Not for iPod. Firmware updates are available through iTunes (as are iTunes updates).

5. Another OS called Rockbox can be used with ipod, and adds alot more features including being able to play more formats, more games (i.e. doom ), bunch of other advanced features... it's a bit buggy though, and the battery doesn't last as long between charges.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Middy on
5. Another OS called Rockbox can be used with ipod, and adds alot more features including being able to play more formats, more games (i.e. doom ), bunch of other advanced features... it's a bit buggy though, and the battery doesn't last as long between charges.


Thanks for your reply.

Rockbox doesn't support 6th gen 120gb Ipod as far as I know. Or does it?

It is mentioned on the Rockbox site ( http://www.rockbox.org/ ) that "1st through 5.5th generation iPods" are supported; however the "6th gen" label is not official (amazon.com and fans cal it that), so does the 5.5th gen mentioned at this site also include the new 120 gb Ipod???

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #3 –
Quote
5. Another OS called Rockbox can be used with ipod, and adds alot more features including being able to play more formats, more games (i.e. doom tongue.gif), bunch of other advanced features... it's a bit buggy though, and the battery doesn't last as long between charges.


Nope the Rockbox doesn't work with the 120 GB IPod Classic. Not many people actually find the need for them so it's a waste to develope the firmware for it. I guess that's how Rockbox team looks at it. Who know's? They may add support in the the near future.


Quote
2. I will be able to move all my mp3 files not downloaded from itunes or the zune marketplace into the Ipod or the zune, right? Or do these players only accept strore-bought/downloaded files?


They should accept all files. The IPod has a number of applications that exist out there that allow you to transfer files on to your IPod including ITunes. My friend has a Zune 30. I am not sure what device he uses to synch up to his portable on that end though. The files that you download from the ITunes Store are usually encoded with AAC at 128 kbps or 256 kbps for the "Plus" service and I believe they just removed the DRM restrictions that they used to have on them. The Zune Marketplace on the other hand is more then likely using DRM on their files so it's difficult to say. 


Quote
5. What features can be added to each device via mods or hacks that are not available on the original devices?


These models don't support the Rockbox at all. Different models of the IPod are supported under Rockbox firmware. Some of the models include the 1st and 2nd Generation IPod's and the Nano's.The Zune is not supported at all. If it were up to me I wouldn't buy either of them, because of this and some other setbacks, but this is just me   

Quote
7. In means of sound quality which one's better? Or is the difference negligible? (I do not intend to use an amp or anything other than earphones. So please do not include the +amp configuration in the comparison).


Haven't we already been over this to an extent? It depends on whether or not you are talking about the line output or the headphone driven test. The results according to the RMAA tests show both about being equal (I am assuming this a line output test)

Note: The Zune 120 is not included in this test, but I am assuming it's exactly the same as the Zune 80.

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3204&p=9
budding I.T professional

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #4 –
Quote from: HotshotGG on
Nope the Rockbox doesn't work with the 120 GB IPod Classic. Not many people actually find the need for them so it's a waste to develope the firmware for it. I guess that's how Rockbox team looks at it. Who know's? They may add support in the the near future.


Marginally off-topic (?) but I believe that Apple has locked the firmware on iPods after 5.5G. Whether the Rockbox developers like it or not, they can't develop for the new models.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #5 –
2.  Yes, both devices can play mp3 files just fine.  You do not need to purchase music from the iTunes Store or Zune Marketplace in order to copy music to those respective devices.

3.  No.  In fact, Apple doesn't even offer a subscription service.  Microsoft does with their Zune but it isn't mandatory.

4.  No, firmware updates are free.  Just keep in mind that both devices probably won't receive many major updates if they receive any at all.  Microsoft is better with their updates as they make it so the older devices can run the newer firmware.  However, firmware 3.0 really wasn't all that different from firmware 2.0.  Apple will come out with minor updates for the iPod classic but know that, when they come out with a new iPod classic (if they come out with a new iPod classic), the older model will not be updated with the newer features.

5.  Not much.  Both devices are rather new and haven't been hacked yet.  However, there really isn't much you will want to add since you aren't interested in videos, games, radios, interface, or anything like that.

6.  I have a 30GB Halo 3 Zune and find that the volume is slightly lower than my 120GB iPod classic.  It is running the latest firmware.  I don't know if the 120GB Zune is louder.  Both should produce volumes that are more than loud enough.

7.  Some websites say that the Zune has a slight edge over the iPod in terms of sound quality.  Other websites measure output and say that they are both equal.  Other websites, who try to conduct blind tests, say that they can't distinguish between the two.  It is really hard to find subjective views on audio quality as blind tests are nearly impossible to conduct and everyone has that preconceived notion that iPods produce bad sound quality.  Now it seems that the main complaint about the iPod is its equalizers.  The iPod still lacks visual custom equalizers and some people don't like this.  The Zune doesn't offer a visual EQ either.  In fact, if EQs are your thing, the Zune offers less choices.


All-in-all I think that both devices will give you what you want.  Gapless playback may not be perfect on both devices but it is still there.  Basically I think it comes down to which interface you like, which software you like (Zune PC software or iTunes), and if you ever plan on buying accessories down the line.  I have been working with iPods ever since 2002 and I have learned one thing: never say never.  Never say that you aren't going to buy accessories for your device, never say that you don't want videos as most people will actually watch videos on their portable device, and so on.  You never know what you are going to be interested in with your portable device.  I know you are moving from a portable CD player to either one of these and both the Zune and iPod offer a large amount of features over audio playback.  You just never know what you are going to do with the device in the 2-3 years that you own it.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #6 –
Quote from: gorgekko on
Quote from: HotshotGG on

Nope the Rockbox doesn't work with the 120 GB IPod Classic. Not many people actually find the need for them so it's a waste to develope the firmware for it. I guess that's how Rockbox team looks at it. Who know's? They may add support in the the near future.


Marginally off-topic (?) but I believe that Apple has locked the firmware on iPods after 5.5G. Whether the Rockbox developers like it or not, they can't develop for the new models.

Correct.
The Zune (IIRC) firmware is at least cryptographically signed, and the iPod fimwares from the "Classic" (6th Gen) / Nano 2nd gen on up are encrypted.  There is no way to develop for them until that point in time the encryption is not only broken (which would allow reverse engineering to see how the undocumented rebranded hardware works (big challenge in and of itself)) but a method is found to either sign custom code or remove the check that the firmware is signed/encrypted.
The 1st gen Zune is basically a Gigabeat S with the "bug" fixed which allowed the firmware protection to be defeated.

This leads into the direct response to your question #5:
Because of the forcefully closed nature of the firmware - there are no non-Apple / non-Microsoft addons / hacks for these players.
I don't even think you can sync the Zune without using the Zune software.
There was a problem with a non-documented checksum on the newer iPods and it made non-iTunes iPod managers unable to sync to the newer devices, but this has been reverse engineered - so there is a wealth of non-iTunes options for managing your music on the iPod.


In direct response to the idea that "Not many people actually find the need for them so it's a waste to develope the firmware for it." let's be clear:
Rockbox is developed by people for selfish reasons - it is developed by those with an itch and the ability to scratch that itch.  Rockbox targets are in no way, shape, or form chosen by popularity.  (Gigabeat F?  M:Robe????) 
That and if you look here I think you'll notice the 120GB "Classic" is the #2 selling iPod.  Clearly many, many, many people find a need for them.
In fact, before the "Touch" came out the 80GB 5.5th gen sold more units than all the Nanos put together.



EDIT:  Removed implied credit to Rockbox where it should not have been.
Creature of habit.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #7 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
6.  I have a 30GB Halo 3 Zune and find that the volume is slightly lower than my 120GB iPod classic.  It is running the latest firmware.  I don't know if the 120GB Zune is louder.  Both should produce volumes that are more than loud enough.

7.  Some websites say that the Zune has a slight edge over the iPod in terms of sound quality.  Other websites measure output and say that they are both equal.  Other websites, who try to conduct blind tests, say that they can't distinguish between the two.  It is really hard to find subjective views on audio quality as blind tests are nearly impossible to conduct and everyone has that preconceived notion that iPods produce bad sound quality.  Now it seems that the main complaint about the iPod is its equalizers.  The iPod still lacks visual custom equalizers and some people don't like this.  The Zune doesn't offer a visual EQ either.  In fact, if EQs are your thing, the Zune offers less choices.


All-in-all I think that both devices will give you what you want.  Gapless playback may not be perfect on both devices but it is still there.  Basically I think it comes down to which interface you like, which software you like (Zune PC software or iTunes), and if you ever plan on buying accessories down the line.  I have been working with iPods ever since 2002 and I have learned one thing: never say never.  Never say that you aren't going to buy accessories for your device, never say that you don't want videos as most people will actually watch videos on their portable device, and so on.  You never know what you are going to be interested in with your portable device.  I know you are moving from a portable CD player to either one of these and both the Zune and iPod offer a large amount of features over audio playback.  You just never know what you are going to do with the device in the 2-3 years that you own it.



Thank you all for your replies.

Does anyone happen to know the volume levels of both the Ipod and Zune 120 in decibels? I wish I could find the same information for my D-EJ915, also, to be able to compare. Since there's no Zune wehere I live, and the Ipod's volume is capped, there's no way for me to know what the volume level be like before the device I intend to order online arrives. And I guess there's no way for me to refund the Zune as there's no Zune store etc.. in my country.

Zune 120 has no equalizer and this is an important issue. My discman didn't have one, but I never needed to have one, as it sounded better than most of whatever else I have heard. However I can't seem to qualize the winamp in a decent way how hard I try; somehow the music always seems either too bassy or thin. So the lack of equalizer maybe a handicap, or it may not. It's just scary that I will have to see what it adds up to only after the Zune arrives...

And the sound quality... Yes, I know people try to be scientific here as individual opinions are just individual opinions. But people do have them, and one likes to hear them, along with the technical factual data.

You've all been so helpful. I thank you all. And kornchild2002; thanks so much for taking the time and patiently responding to all of my questions.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #8 –
Quote from: meurglys0 on
And the sound quality... Yes, I know people try to be scientific here as individual opinions are just individual opinions. But people do have them, and one likes to hear them, along with the technical factual data.


I'm not going to deep-link the paper, but you can read about it here and download there as well, but it has been shown that there is a very strong correlation between accuracy (cold, hard, measurable accuracy) and listener preference when it comes to loudspeakers.  It is not a reach at all to conclude then that a more accurate DAP / headphone combo will be perceived as better by most.  (It is hard to have accuracy at the speaker level w/o accuracy at the player level.)

This is not to say that if Device A is more accurate than Device B then you necessarily will have a problem with Device B - it is to say that if we accept that accuracy can be measured, and if Device A is demonstrable as an accurate device - there is no need to worry about that part of the sound chain.

The only current-gen Zune RMAA test I see is actually the first google hit here.  While we don't see all the pretty charts, what we are privy to is dead nuts, and where not dead nuts is below my threshold of my hearing (OMG!  20HZ stereo crosstalk 72 decibels down!  ).  Point being - I'd eat my left big toe before believing there is an audible difference between the two from what I have seen and read.

You asked earlier about a decibel rating for the loudness of the players.  The reason you don't see one is it is impossible to spec.  Absolute volume is a product of output power and the headphone you are using.  Perceived volume is going to be all that plus the (very personal) fit of said headphone in/on your ear.  That kind of thing just can not be quoted.
That said...
This ABI thread (post #4 in particular) claims the Zune is not as loud as the iPod - take that as you will.
That said...
Can't find any cold facts, but the consensus amongst the unwashed is that they are both 30mW* players.

EDIT:  D-EJ915 is claimed to be a 10/15mW** player, just googled that.  So both (iPod/Zune) should at least as loud.  (NOT twice as loud - that's a topic for another discussion.)



*Total (both channels), into 16ohms I'd assume (cause it looks bigger that way).
**Depending on generation - Not sure total or single channel spec, again into 16 I'd assume.
Creature of habit.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #9 –
Quote from: meurglys0 on
And the sound quality... Yes, I know people try to be scientific here as individual opinions are just individual opinions. But people do have them, and one likes to hear them, along with the technical factual data.


I can only report on what I have read on websites.  I cannot hear a difference between my 120GB iPod classic and my Zune.  It appears that many websites were claiming audible superiority for the 30GB Zune when it was first released but I have seen most of the claims disappear over the years.

So I agree with Soap that anyone would be hard pressed to hear the differences if there are actually any audible differences between the two devices.

The lack of in-depth EQ for both devices should not bother you then.  I don't use EQs with my portable devices so the lack of a visual one with the iPod and the lack of multiple EQs for the Zune have never bothered me.  I know that some people like to fine tune their music but I am not one of them.

Have you decided on a device to purchase.  Your post made it seem like you went with the 120GB Zune but I am not sure.  As I said, both devices should give you want you want.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #10 –
Quote
That and if you look here I think you'll notice the 120GB "Classic" is the #2 selling iPod. Clearly many, many, many people find a need for them.
In fact, before the "Touch" came out the 80GB 5.5th gen sold more units than all the Nanos put together.


Maybe on Amazon. That doesn't necessarily mean that that's what's true elsewhere on the web or even in consumer electronics stores for that matter.


Quote
The only current-gen Zune RMAA test I see is actually the first google hit here. While we don't see all the pretty charts, what we are privy to is dead nuts, and where not dead nuts is below my threshold of my hearing (OMG! 20HZ stereo crosstalk 72 decibels down!  ). Point being - I'd eat my left big toe before believing there is an audible difference between the two from what I have seen and read.


I just posted that link above.  .

Quote
In direct response to the idea that "Not many people actually find the need for them so it's a waste to develope the firmware for it." let's be clear:
Rockbox is developed by people for selfish reasons - it is developed by those with an itch and the ability to scratch that itch. Rockbox targets are in no way, shape, or form chosen by popularity. (Gigabeat F? M:Robe????)
That and if you look here I think you'll notice the 120GB "Classic" is the #2 selling iPod. Clearly many, many, many people find a need for them.
In fact, before the "Touch" came out the 80GB 5.5th gen sold more units than all the Nanos put together.


I was speculating I didn't know the firmware was encrypted. I had thought originally that they had choose to develope the firmware for certain players based upon the demand for them, but I guess that is not true. 
budding I.T professional

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #11 –
Quote from: HotshotGG on
I was speculating I didn't know the firmware was encrypted. I had thought originally that they had choose to develope the firmware for certain players based upon the demand for them, but I guess that is not true. 


Usually ports happen when someone with a player shows up with source code and asks to get it put into SVN.  Current rockbox developers typically don't decide anything, they keep working on whatever originally interested them.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #12 –
I have an iPod 160 GB AND a Xune 120GB.

Zune Pros:
nice interface (the song names don't scroll so if they're longer than 50 chars your SOL, way to half ass it MS)
bigger screen
fits easier in my hand
controls aren't as obnoxious

Zune Cons:
seems to have an underpowered battery
seems to have an underpowered processor (songs stutter if i'm doing a lot on the zune)
the software is oversized and underpowered
the screen resolution is too low for the size


iPod Pros:
more discspace than zune
great battery life
itunes smart playlists are awesome
software is more "solid" feeling

iPod cons:
screen is obnoxiously small for playing videos
the touch wheel sucks ass and the interface is really half assed. At least the song title scroll though!
doing things the "apple" way isn't necessarily the right way and so logic goes out the window on some things like the arbitrary storage of artwork (itunes auto-places artwork in a separate file but if you manually add artwork to a file in itunes it will save it to the song, wtf?)



all in all, they're both great devices. I'm still on the fence with which I prefer.

For what it's worth, my wife loves the zune & hates the ipod & she has ZERO patience for technology. I thought she would prefer the ipod but I guess coolness doesn't beat out useability. She also thought it was VERY arrogant for apple to just assume you would know how to use it and not include ANY instructions "because it's sooo intuitive!" (ya, right) and I have to agree with her on that one.

Both Zune Software and iTunes are missing critical features & functionality that the other one has.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #13 –
Quote from: frozenspeed on
doing things the "apple" way isn't necessarily the right way and so logic goes out the window on some things like the arbitrary storage of artwork (itunes auto-places artwork in a separate file but if you manually add artwork to a file in itunes it will save it to the song, wtf?)


I actually think this is a benefit, I just wish that the iTunes Store had more album art in its inventory.  Anyway, album artwork downloaded by iTunes takes up around 1-1.5MB.  This would increase the file sizes of each and every song if iTunes were to embed the artwork into each file.  Instead, iTunes will download the file and just associate the artwork with each appropriate file.  So an album size will increase by 1-1.5MB instead of 12MB+ (assuming an album is 12 songs long).

I agree with your post though except I don't think that iPods need to come with instructions.  I had a 30GB Zune and never looked at the documentation.  Then again, I have been working with portable "mp3" players since 1998.  Just download the appropriate software and plug the device in.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #14 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Have you decided on a device to purchase.  Your post made it seem like you went with the 120GB Zune but I am not sure.  As I said, both devices should give you want you want.


Indeed I am very close to getting Zune 120, though I have not made my final decision. I will definitely inform you when I make it, for you've helped me a lot. I will tell you of my experience with the device when it arrives, too.


Quote from: frozenspeed on
Zune Cons: seems to have an underpowered battery


Could you please tell me how long the battery lasts before needing a recharge? With wma lossless and mp3 and video respectively...

Thanks in advance.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #15 –
Ignore this post.  Something happened and FireFox ended up posting some of the results but not all of them.

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #16 –
I am not sure about the 120GB Zune but I can give you the battery tests for my 30GB Zune.  Microsoft rates my Zune as having 14 hours of audio playback and 2.5 hours of video playback on a single charge.  I assume that Microsoft took their measurements with the wi-fi antenna turned off.  So here is what I got:

Format                Bitrate/setting                    Length of performance
iTunes AAC            128kbps VBR                          12.5 hours
iTunes AAC            256kbps VBR                          11 hours
Nero AAC                -q0.5                                    11.7 hours
WMA 9.2                128kbps VBR                          12.5 hours
WMA 9.2                192kbps VBR                          11.4 hours
Lame (3.98.2)        -V 5                                      13.7 hours
Lame (3.98.2)        -V 2                                      11.8 hours
WMA                      Lossless                                6.4 hours
WMV                      768kbps (128kbps audio)        2 hours

I conducted these tests a few days ago as I sold my Halo 3 Zune and wanted to make sure that it was still lasting as long as it did when I initially purchased the device.  I synced different playlists containing different songs to my Zune.  I ran each playlist twice and took an average of the playback times.  I initially conducted a couple of tests but was always getting around 10 hours of audio playback.  I then turned the backlight completely off and conducted the tests.  I was never able to achieve the full 14 hours of audio playback on a single charge (I was using the default Zune earbuds).  Lame performed the best with AAC and WMA taking a bigger hit on the battery.  Video playback was terrible.

I have been reading over many reviews and it appears that this is a common trend with Zunes that has not been fixed.  People are hardly ever able to get Microsoft's advertised playback times.  Apple has changed the way they advertise the iPod.  I don't know if you remember or not but Apple got in trouble over the 3G iPod when it was released back in 2003.  Apple said that their 3G iPod would last for 8 hours on a single charge.  The issue was that most people were getting around 4-5 hours on a single charge and this was with using standard 128kbps mp3/AAC files.  Ever since then Apple's battery estimates have been either very accurate or under what the player can actually get.  I have a 120GB iPod classic that is rated for 36 hours of playback on a single charge yet I get an average of 46 hours on a single charge.  Video playback is also really nice.  Apple rated the 120GB iPod classic for 6 hours of playback yet I get much more than that.  The older 160GB iPod classic is even better as people get over 50 hours of audio playback and 9-10 hours of video playback.

These are just my tests so take them as you will.  I don't know how the 120GB Zune performs in the real world but I have heard from many websites and forum posts that, just like the 30GB Zune, is unable to achieve the battery efficiency that Microsoft advertises.
 

Zune 120 or 6th Gen 120gb Ipod? Sound Qualitywise.

Reply #17 –
My 160GB iPod died and so I took the opportunity to try out a 120GB Zune.
I'm overall happy with it but its taken a lot to get there:

Converting my APEv2 tags to ID3v2 (Compatibility mode) (foo_dop transparently handled the APEv2 tags), mass adding a custom BAND tag because Zune doesn't use the Album Artist tag.
There's also a lot of inconsistencies with how the Zune organises and displays music. Eg 1,10,2,3..etc yet its able to correctly sort A State of Trance under "S". Same behaviour occurs with "The" as well.
And its locked down to using the Zune Software which has a tendency to modify tags without notifying you (which was fixed by setting Read Only flags on my library)

Haven't used it enough to test its battery life (Which was fantastic on the iPod). Zune also lacks a EQ (never used iPods EQ anyhow) and volume limiter but the volume slider also displays a number which makes it easier to remember your ideal levels (which was harder to do on the iPod)

I also have to use an additional external application to sync my plays to Last.FM.

Once Rockbox is on the Gigabeat S, Zune support would be nice if they are able to flash its bootloader.