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Topic: Line out on PC-out is weaker than normal LINE? And looking for afforda (Read 3050 times) previous topic - next topic
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Line out on PC-out is weaker than normal LINE? And looking for afforda

Hey!

I got these monitors from Yamaha (HS80) hooked up to my PC and they do sound alright. However I discovered when I plug in a regular cd-player to these speakers. The sound will become richer and fuller. I used to DJ at a small youth-club and one thing I learned was dedicated LINE in-outs probably have a higher voltage resulting in better sound. So I have been using this realtek sound-out form my MSI GM785-E65 motherboard for quite some time. But the bass was lacking. First thought this was because of the Yammies which do tend to lack some bass according to reviews. Then I thought it was my room-acoustics because the bass is fine when playing from a regular cd-player. Now I figure it is the PC-line out which line-signal might be weaker?

Long story short: am currently looking for an affordable dedicated pci-e soundcard which could make me happy and drive the sound for the Yammies. One candidate might be frem the Asus Xonar range. The Snr. seems even better than the Terratec 6Fire I used to have. But is no longer supported under Win7.

please a little soft if I talked bs.

Line out on PC-out is weaker than normal LINE? And looking for afforda

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Funkalicious on
I used to DJ at a small youth-club and one thing I learned was dedicated LINE in-outs probably have a higher voltage resulting in better sound.


This is not how speakers work.  Higher voltages just mean higher volume.  Voltage has no impact on quality.

Quote from: Funkalicious on
First thought this was because of the Yammies which do tend to lack some bass according to reviews. Then I thought it was my room-acoustics because the bass is fine when playing from a regular cd-player.


These are sensible things to look into.

Line out on PC-out is weaker than normal LINE? And looking for afforda

Reply #2 –
On a club, you probably had professional equipment, which uses a standard of +4dBU for line levels. Consumer products, on the other hand, use a standard of -20dBU. This is mostly intended to get less noise on longer runs of cable. But this is not directly related to quality. So you probably just notice the difference in volume.

What is true is that not all soundcards have the same output level, so getting another one can improve it. Check the specifications for max voltage output.

Line out on PC-out is weaker than normal LINE? And looking for afforda

Reply #3 –
CD players usually output a maximum voltage of about 2 Vrms for a 0 dBFS signal. For onboard HD audio codecs, the full scale voltage is typically about 1.2 Vrms (it can vary by a couple tenths of a Volt), and possibly lower if you set the volume to less than 100%. Lower volume is perceived by humans as less bass. Other than that, the only hardware reason why the onboard audio would lack bass is very small output capacitors (for example, 4.7 uF is suggested in some datasheet PDFs), but the monitors would still need to have a rather low input impedance for that to make a notable difference (only 2 kiloohms for 3 dB attenuation at 17 Hz); so, that is not a likely problem. It may also be worth checking for software issues, such as bad mixer settings, speaker configuration (e.g. not routing bass to an LFE channel that does not exist), and unwanted DSP effects. However, I think it is most likely a simple low volume = low bass psycho-acoustical effect.

If you are looking at Xonar cards, the D1 (PCI) or DX (PCIe) would have 2 Vrms line outputs, and should be plenty good enough. But it is cheaper to just turn up the volume on the monitors more to compensate for the lower output voltage of the Realtek codec.

Line out on PC-out is weaker than normal LINE? And looking for afforda

Reply #4 –
There are standards for both pro and consumer line level.  You can look it up on Wikipedia, but there are variables....  0dB line level is defined, but unless you are running calibrated test tones, the level will vary depending on the equipment, the loudness of the program material, and the volume control setting.

Typically, consumer line-level outputs can put-out at least 0dB, and an amplifier (or amplified speaker) can hit full power with an input of 0dB or less.    So...  when you mix & match equipment you should never be in a situation where you can't get full power.   

The specs for your monitors specs say -10dBu.  I believe that is 0dB consumer line-level (you can check Wikipedia to confirm).  So, you should be able to hit full-power with most consumer equipment.

Quote
Then I thought it was my room-acoustics because the bass is fine when playing from a regular cd-player. Now I figure it is the PC-line out which line-signal might be weaker?
There shouldn't be a lack of bass from your soundcard unless it is defective, or unless there is some adjustment or "enhancement" set up somewhere on your computer. 

Yes.  The room can make a difference.  When you compare the CD player to the computer, you need to match the levels (somehow) and test in the same room.

Line out on PC-out is weaker than normal LINE? And looking for afforda

Reply #5 –
ouch! i wrote -20dBU. Indeed, it's -10dBV..
 

Line out on PC-out is weaker than normal LINE? And looking for afforda

Reply #6 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
0dB

Without a reference, this is figure is meaningless.