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Topic: Phono cartridge questions (Read 7512 times) previous topic - next topic
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Phono cartridge questions

I have an Oracle Delphi Mk. III with SME V tonearm, to which I attached a Sumiko Blue Point cartridge about 20 years ago. For a variety of reasons, this outfit has seen very little use--probably an average of 50 hours per year over that period.

I have been told--by my dealer--that the stylus wear is not really a concern with high-end cartridges, but that with time, the cantilever loses compliance and can damage the grooves. I have not noticed any loss of sound quality in recent use. Replaying records that have been played recently reveals no audible problems. I am wondering whether I should consider replacing this cartridge at this point?

If so, what would you recommend in the 500$ or less price range. The great majority of my LPs are in good to excellent condition, but I do collect historic monos, and some of these do have some surface imperfections. For this reason I was advised against the Blue Point Special when considering options over 20 years ago.

Also, I have had a new (unused) Ortofon MC-30 Super cartridge along with passive preamp (Ortofon T-20) and--I believe a phono preamp (Ortofon MCA-76)--sitting here for about 20+ years as well. I got them basically free when I bought a bunch of other high end audio from an estate. I have always been curious about them, but have never tried them because the Sumiko has been working great.

In any case, would the Ortofon still be useable? Would it sound good? My high-end audio dealer (who does not carry Ortofon) basically told me that it is crap, and I'd be king of the idiots if I even considered using it. Of course, I take this kind of advice with a grain of salt--Everything the guy does not carry is crap of course.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Phono cartridge questions

Reply #1 –
Contrary to what your pusher dealer told you, stylus wear is an issue with all cartridges. They usually last around 1000-2000 hours of playback before getting too worn down to use. However, he is right that the little rubber suspension bushings will lose compliance over time and either become rigid or crumble away.

If it still sounds good to you, and you've only put around 1000 hours on it as you say, it's probably fine for another couple of years.

Ortofon make great cartridges, but the only way to knnow whether your MC-30 Super is still good is to inspect it for wear (use a microscope or a high-power loupe). If that checks out, try playing some records with it. If it sounds good to you, it's good to go!

Phono cartridge questions

Reply #2 –
The Ortofon's definitely worth trying. Your dealer's just trying to keep you brand loyal to the stock he carries.

You could also look at retipping/refurbishment, as opposed to buying a new cartridge.

Phono cartridge questions

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Kadsura on
I have an Oracle Delphi Mk. III with SME V tonearm, to which I attached a Sumiko Blue Point cartridge about 20 years ago. For a variety of reasons, this outfit has seen very little use--probably an average of 50 hours per year over that period.

I have been told--by my dealer--that the stylus wear is not really a concern with high-end cartridges, but that with time, the cantilever loses compliance and can damage the grooves. I have not noticed any loss of sound quality in recent use. Replaying records that have been played recently reveals no audible problems. I am wondering whether I should consider replacing this cartridge at this point?


Looks to me like fear-mongering.  This is an overview of how most cartriges are made:



This is a moving iron cartridge, but moving magnet cartridges are very similar. Moving coil cartridges put a coil where the iron is, and magnets where the coils are.  From the standpoint of this dscussion, its all the same.

The most relevant part of a cartridge suspension for this discussion is the elastic material shown as shaded where the cantilever passes through the suspension.

A bad diamond stylus can damage LP's but for that to happen due to a weak stylus suspension seems unlikely.

The stylus cantilever is not a compliant member, it is supposed to be as stiff as is reasonably possible.

The compliance of a cartridge is in the elastic materials that support the stylus. They mostly affect the mechanical positioning of the stylus.

If the stylus suspension fails, a change in the position of the stylus with respect to the body of the cartridge should be noticeable.

Ironically, there's a pretty good chance that any replacement stylus would be NOS and have compliant parts with a similar date of manufacture.

IME the lifespan of a cartrdige suspension can be indefinate unless there are environmental or quality problems.

Phono cartridge questions

Reply #4 –
This Shure FAQ page suggests this is a legit concern. [I've read about this for decades but never found any conclusive evidence using evidence based scienece]:

  "QUESTION:I  have a Shure V15 type IV phono cartridge which I purchased new many years ago.  The cartridge has always performed flawlessly and  has very low hours of use. It has been in storage for several years.

I  tried to use it recently and found that the sound was "thin", lacking
bass  and tracking extremely poorly. It sounded like it was overloaded and skipped all  over the record.

The cartridge is mounted in a removable headshell. I  swapped the cartridge/headshell with another cartridge/headshell combination  that I have. The second unit worked, so it seems that the turntable (rega planar  2) and tonearm are still set up correctly (tracking force, anti-skate, VTA,  alignment, etc.).

Is there some component in the cartridge that degrades with time? Is there anything I can do to  correct the situation? Any help/information would be greatly  appreciated.


    ANSWER:Is  there some component in the cartridge that degrades  with time?
* Yes. The elastic bearing that supports the stylus shank. Atmospheric ozone hardens it; like tire  rot on bike tires.

Is there anything I can do to correct the situation? 
* Sorry, there is not.

Beware of any replacement stylus that you may find for sale. Shure have not made  the replacement stylus since the late 1980's,  therefore even a new stylus may have a hardened  bearing."


I do own a pair of binoculars, decades old, and the rubber fold down eyecup for eyeglass wearers has become hard, brittle, stiff and cracked, so I can attest to rubber changing when it gets old.



 

 

Phono cartridge questions

Reply #5 –
Quote
If so, what would you recommend in the 500$ or less price range.
I like the "or less" part! 

This is just my opinion, but I can't see the point in spending more than the cost of Shure's best cartridge (under $100).  There might be a slight improvement with a more expensive cartridge, or if you hear a difference you may even prefer the sound of the less expensive cartridge. 

Unless you're getting tracking problems the biggest difference is going to be frequency response and you can adjust that with your equalizer (or bass/treble controls).  In fact, you can make a bigger  difference (and maybe a bigger improvement) with EQ.    And, the variation in frequency balance between any two records is generally going to be greater than the difference between any two reasonably-good cartridges.  That's especially true with older records.

No matter how good the turntable/cartridge you are still playing analog vinyl and you're never going to get the quality you get from a $50 CD player.  Back in the vinyl days I was always chasing after better sound and I might have paid more for slightly  better sound.    I'm not saying you should get the cheapest cartridge & turntable you can find, but in the digital era I don't see the point in going crazy trying to improve analog sound.  (Except, I do try to improve digitized  vinyl by removing the "snap", "crackle", and "pop".

Phono cartridge questions

Reply #6 –
Just get a test disc. If your existing cartridge tracks that OK I'd stop worrying about it, though at 1000 hours I'd be thinking of a replacement stylus (or cartridge if it's non-user replaceable.) The Denon DL304 is a MC that tracks very well and should work well in your SME. Only drawback is its very low output, but that applies to the Ortofons too IIRC

Phono cartridge questions

Reply #7 –
Quote from: botface on
Just get a test disc. If your existing cartridge tracks that OK I'd stop worrying about it, though at 1000 hours I'd be thinking of a replacement stylus (or cartridge if it's non-user replaceable.) The Denon DL304 is a MC that tracks very well and should work well in your SME. Only drawback is its very low output, but that applies to the Ortofons too IIRC

The unused Ortofon he has is the 'Super', which I think (not 100% sure) means it is a higher-output version of the regular MC30.

Phono cartridge questions

Reply #8 –
First: The MC30 Super could be ancient, or it could be 2010 revived MkII. I would imagine that to make quite a difference in terms of rubber rot.

Second: The "if it sounds OK, it is OK" is not straightforward when it comes to something that might wear down the media. The OP is right in asking helluvalot of questions.


Quote from: JabbaThePrawn on
Quote from: botface on
Just get a test disc. If your existing cartridge tracks that OK I'd stop worrying about it, though at 1000 hours I'd be thinking of a replacement stylus (or cartridge if it's non-user replaceable.) The Denon DL304 is a MC that tracks very well and should work well in your SME. Only drawback is its very low output, but that applies to the Ortofons too IIRC

The unused Ortofon he has is the 'Super', which I think (not 100% sure) means it is a higher-output version of the regular MC30.


Was there ever a non-"Super" MC30? I don't remember (I used an MC30 Super) until 1998, when I effectively packed down my turntable. There was a "Supreme" with very low output. Figures:

0.05 mV for MC10 Supreme, MC20 Supreme, MC30 Supreme
0.09 mV for MC100 and MC200
0.125 mV for MC2000 and MC3000 (higher thousands were up to .14)
"> 0.20 mV" for the Super, though 0.25 for at least the reintroduced MC20 MkII
3.3 mV for the Turbo (just to point out that "higher" output MC isn't "high-output MC").