Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: Should I upgrade, or is what I have good enough? (Read 3592 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Should I upgrade, or is what I have good enough?

Hi guys, I'm new here but I've lurked the forum for, like, almost a decade. I just had a few questions about my current equipment and any possible upgrades. I'm... well, I'm poor, but I amass nice things from my birthdays and Christmastime, so I'm more interested in "budget" gear. I'm currently running an idsd nano off of my computer, driving a pair of ATH-MSR7s. I was wondering, being more objective as you are, what your opinions are on these two items and how they (literally) measure up.

I originally bought the nano because it was sub-$200, portable, has an amp, and (unfortunately) has really big numbers (384/32 support and up to DSD256). I don't really care for all that placebophile crap now and am aiming toward flat, well-measuring devices. I've heard that the nano actually has some poor measurements (relatively speaking) and that the MSR7s aren't quite flat. Basically I am aiming at "mathematical" reproduction right now and am eyeballing the Schiit Modi 2 and Magni 2, or an O2+ODAC combo. Not so sure about the headphones, I like them (honestly, this setup is probably the best freaking sound I've heard) but I want to find what's ideal without it turning into that whole infinite upgrade treadmill. Something I can buy and just be set. Do you think I should even bother changing anything around? Oh, I guess I should mention that one of those ASUS Strix cards could be an option as well,, I'm just leery about the idea that a gaming internal sound card could compare to something like an ODAC.

Oh, and on my Nexus 7 my headphones sometimes pick up (sometimes loud) distorted CB radio broadcasts, which is weird. On my idsd they happen to come in, but quieter and clearer. And the idsd when connected to the usb cable will also audibly pick up FM or something. I hear talk and music different than the CB broadcasts. Is there anything I can do about these issues? I think a ferrite USB cable should stop the FM or whatever, no? And why the heck are the MSR7s so prone to these CB broadcasts?

Anyways, thanks for your time and hopefully input.

Re: Should I upgrade, or is what I have good enough?

Reply #1 –
You've asked a lot of questions above and most of them are opinion-based which is not a good fit for this forum. Maybe that's why no one is responding.

Nearby CB/FM signals can be a difficult problem to solve. The first step is to eliminate whatever connecting wires you can. Headphone cables, USB cables, interconnects all act as antennas and pick up the radio. You might try wireless or Bluetooth headphones. As you mention, ferrite chokes may also help. You'll need to try all of this to see if any help and it still may not be enough to totally get rid of the interference.

If you know the source of the CB signal -- look for a nearby house with a big antenna in the back yard -- you might ask the owner to limit his activity to certain times of the day. If you are in an apartment or condo and it's one of your neighbors, your association may have rules about CB usage.

Re: Should I upgrade, or is what I have good enough?

Reply #2 –
Starting with the OP's last question, the MSR7s are unusually sensitive for full-sized cans (23 mV @ 90 dB @ 37 ohms), so chances are you'd hear things that might be a good bit less obvious on others. You can also get two cable lengths for them, the longer one would probably make a better antenna for the problematic bands, too.

AM demodulation problems (which is what's happening here) have become a fair bit less common but they may still occur in areas with high signal strength. The "different talk and music" is going to turn out to be the local flamethrower or station down the block on the AM broadcast band, I assume, so I'd do a cross-check with a receiver covering that. The "CB" might just as well be ham radio, I doubt most people would be able to tell them apart if they couldn't make out the modulation (either FM or SSB, neither of which is intelligible when using an AM detector). The upside of that would be that a ham might be able to help you with RFI proofing your amp. It's a pretty cool hobby really, plenty to learn there. I would have been licensed years ago if only I'd ever had an opportunity to put up a decent antenna for the bands that really interest me (shortwave, ideally including 160 meters), but unfortunately there never was that kind of space available. It's all a lot more fun if you're out in the country somewhere with a big backyard.

So who's the bad guy doing AM demodulation here? I'd suspect the headphone amp chip, seemingly a TPA6130A2 in this case. Undegenerated bipolar inputs run at low tail current tend to be prone to this and require adequate protection. Oddly enough, the unit appears to be nearly immune to cellphone interference (good thing when used as a DAC on your phone, obviously), so you'd think if they managed this, achieving the same for the AM bands wouldn't be too far off, though admittedly we are talking frequencies about 2-3 orders of magnitude lower, which is another world really.

The measurements I found for the nano iDSD were unconclusive and overall almost more confusing than helpful, even though there was an indication of relatively high HF IMD in both measurements and subjective impressions. I'd be tempted to whip out RMAA and take some measurements myself. Which is not that trivial, as you need a soundcard with a decent-quality input (I'd look out for a used Asus Xonar D1 or DX if you've got an ordinary PC), a decent splitter cable if you want to do loaded measurements with headphones attached, and some sort of mobile / battery-powered device to attach the nano iDSD to, so as to avoid ground loop issues. And then you need to set up the sound drivers and software properly, and get the hang of it all. Then you'd generate test tones and transfer these over to the playback device. It would also be advisable to have some mean 0 dBFS (digital full scale) and over test tones, like the trusty fs/4 (11025 Hz) +3 dBFS sine - some DACs have problems even with 0 dBFS no matter what you do (which is what can happen if the analog supply is also the DAC reference voltage), others refuse to go over even a bit due to internal resampling or again lack of analog headroom.

All that being said, it looks like frequency response is just fine, output impedance is low (not like the MSR7 would care much), and I wouldn't be surprised if distortion weren't just about negligible at the very low levels commonly required by the MSR7. The only potential question mark remaining is digital level handling - and even if that turns out to be a problem, it is often possible to include some digital attenuation in software. If you have ReplayGain take care of this, you get the extra bonus of sensible volume across your entire collection even if it ranges from the early '80s to modern times.

Headphones tend to be a matter of taste, it's not easy to get them dead flat really, so you generally settle with using the "ear EQ" to take care of that when performance otherwise is OK. I'm not generally much into closed cans as I'm pretty allergic to "cupped ears effect" (my first good ones were super-duper-open, Sennheiser HD590), but MSR7s seem to measure fine and Tyll Hertsens said they're good if a bit on the bright side for his liking, so assuming you like their signature you're not too badly off really. (There seems to be some gain in wearing comfort to be had by using other earpads and possibly reducing clamping force a bit.) I'd still try some good (midrange) open ones at some point. Other than that you'd probably be forgiven if you concentrated on good source material in the meantime, since what good are the best headphones in the world if your music collection is lame?

Re: Should I upgrade, or is what I have good enough?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: HollowScholar on
Hi guys, I'm new here but I've lurked the forum for, like, almost a decade. I just had a few questions about my current equipment and any possible upgrades. I'm... well, I'm poor, but I amass nice things from my birthdays and Christmastime, so I'm more interested in "budget" gear. I'm currently running an idsd nano off of my computer, driving a pair of ATH-MSR7s. I was wondering, being more objective as you are, what your opinions are on these two items and how they (literally) measure up.

I originally bought the nano because it was sub-$200, portable, has an amp, and (unfortunately) has really big numbers (384/32 support and up to DSD256). I don't really care for all that placebophile crap now and am aiming toward flat, well-measuring devices. I've heard that the nano actually has some poor measurements (relatively speaking) and that the MSR7s aren't quite flat. Basically I am aiming at "mathematical" reproduction right now and am eyeballing the Schiit Modi 2 and Magni 2, or an O2+ODAC combo. Not so sure about the headphones, I like them (honestly, this setup is probably the best freaking sound I've heard) but I want to find what's ideal without it turning into that whole infinite upgrade treadmill. Something I can buy and just be set. Do you think I should even bother changing anything around? Oh, I guess I should mention that one of those ASUS Strix cards could be an option as well,, I'm just leery about the idea that a gaming internal sound card could compare to something like an ODAC.

Oh, and on my Nexus 7 my headphones sometimes pick up (sometimes loud) distorted CB radio broadcasts, which is weird. On my idsd they happen to come in, but quieter and clearer. And the idsd when connected to the usb cable will also audibly pick up FM or something. I hear talk and music different than the CB broadcasts. Is there anything I can do about these issues? I think a ferrite USB cable should stop the FM or whatever, no? And why the heck are the MSR7s so prone to these CB broadcasts?


If you have a fairly recent Android smart phone, here is a no-cost experiment that might help you learn something about your needs. Try listening to some familiar music using a music player (such as Google Play) on the Smartphone, with the addition of one piece of inexpensive trial ware that is very functional in its free version: Neutralizer.  Neutralizer has a built in hearing test that you can use to set the equalizer to compensate for any other frequency response failings of your system and your ears. Neutralizer acts by applying its settings to Android's built-in 12 band octave equalizer so it has very low overhead.  I obtain good results from Google Play by on this Samsung S5 by  playing files from a 32 GB high-bitrate MP3 library on a uSD card that is loaded internally.
 

Re: Should I upgrade, or is what I have good enough?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Apesbrain on
If you know the source of the CB signal -- look for a nearby house with a big antenna in the back yard

CB antennas are not necessarily big or prominent.  A quarter wave vertical at that frequency is only about two and a half meters high and can be made of pretty thin wire easily hidden among trees for example.  Also power output is very low if the operator is obeying the law.

Some people don't and if your next door neighbour is running an illegal kilowatt or more yes it can cause lots of problems.  The cure is to find him (or her) out and report them to the F.C.C. (or equivalent authority if you don't live in the U.S.A.).

Finding them might not be easy if they are using a stealth antenna.  You might contact a local group of Hams and they can do a "Fox Hunt" and track them down.

Ham radio operators can legally use more power and might more likely cause interference.  They are obligated by law in most jurisdictions to address interference problems.  They talk differently than C.B. users and if you hear things like "QSL"  "CQ CQ CQ" or "73" that's a Ham, not a CB'er.  HF ham band antennas are usually much more visible as well, although they can be made less visible as well.


Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH