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Topic: Encoder and the future (Read 4694 times) previous topic - next topic
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Encoder and the future

Hello
I just wanted to know your advices. i'm going to rip my entire collection of CD on my hard drive, and i want to encode it: i'm interseted in good quality, but i also want to buy (in 5-6 months i think) a portable device with a hard drive (such as Archos').

I'heard that musepack (mpc) or AAC are better quality than mp3, but for the moment, only mp3 (and wma for some of them) are recognised by these devices. Which format is going to be implemented on them , according to you?? :confused:  And so, which encoder is the best for me??

Thank you!!

Encoder and the future

Reply #1 –
I don't think you'll find a portable with mpc support.
Ogg might have a change if there not already is a few that does support ogg.

Encoder and the future

Reply #2 –
Yes, ogg is supported now by the RIO Volt, they told that it will certainly be in one of the next firmwares  Can't tell you how happy I am

Encoder and the future

Reply #3 –
It's a balance between compatibility and quality.  MPC is generally thought to have the best archiving quality, certainly it's tops in terms of transient-related artifacts.  A few, a very small number of people, dislike the codec because they find it "grainy" or "flat" or hollow-sounding.  But this is a very small group of people.  MPC is patented, hasn't caused any problems yet for users, but it could in the future.

Ogg is fully open-source and patent-free, usable under the general public license.  Quality pretty close to MPC on some counts; certain audiophiles like it better.  Its quality has risen rapidly, but a 1.0 release still isn't out yet.  Current version - release candidate 3 - still has some issues, though nothing that's likely to stand out very much.  The format is gaining popularity, and the future for player support is quite promising.

Mp3 is the standard, not nearly the quality level of ogg or mpc at a given bitrate; you'd probably want to archive with the --alt-preset standard setting, which is mp3 vbr and gets average bitrates between 200 and 250, usually (correct me if I'm wrong here).

On my end, I'm going to wait to archive my collection at least until ogg 1.0 comes out.  I don't know when this will be, but I assume it'll come out by midsummer or earlier, based on past ogg update speed.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Encoder and the future

Reply #4 –
Ogg Vorbis is definitely the way to go. The only disadvantage is that you will have to wait a while before a portable comes out. But there definitely will be a portable which supports it. The cool thing is when people start buying portables just because of the Ogg Vorbis support, the portable makers will start to notice.

MPC may be better than Ogg Vorbis at high bitrates, but those are not the type of bitrates which you want to fill your portable with

Already Ogg Vorbis is better than WMA and MP3Pro at the low bitrates. And it will still improve. Amazing isn't it? I can't wait.

Encoder and the future

Reply #5 –
Quote
Originally posted by Benjamin Lebsanft
Yes, ogg is supported now by the RIO Volt, they told that it will certainly be in one of the next firmwares  Can't tell you how happy I am



WOW!!! Are you sure? Will it be availible for sp100 (a first riovolt)? When will they release it?
Even you don't know HOW HAPPY I AM !!! (-;

Encoder and the future

Reply #6 –
I, too, am planning to convert my CD collection to a compressed digital format. I intend to store these on some sort of external drive (at least 100gig), which can retained as I invariably update and change my computer system...

I am stuck as to which audio format to use, and I wonder if some do better than others encoding certain types of music, but I am just guessing. Hence, I am following this thread with interest...

What I do want is the ability to tag. One of the reasons I want all the music in one place is so that I can access it all intuitively: shuffle play, search and play by genre, group, album, release date, etc. The only way I know how to do this is with tags. I guess mpc does not use tags-I get error messages in the encoder, and it tells me to turn the tagging offin eac-when I do things work fine...

Any suggestions, input, and observations are appreciated. Thanks, in advance.

Encoder and the future

Reply #7 –
I think the external drive 100GB+ with FireWire interface is the way to go.

Just saw 120GB drive, for a very reasonable price. And RPM doesn't need to be that high. 5400RPM is fine. Just to keep the a/v files.

Of course I have the same issue as many of us do. Which format to use? I really like LAME with 'alt-preset standard' settings. I'm getting 200Kbps on average. The quality is outstanding. But then my portable should have the sufficient capacity for those file. Like iPod.  With OGG we can probably get 128Kbps on average with roughly the same quality, but support is the issue.

I don't care about CDR-based MP3 players, primarily because of the form factor. I may as well listen my CDs on a portable.  Don't like 2.5'' harddrive based devices either - too bulky. Either iPod or something smaller, like those supporting CF format. So I'll be waiting to see if anyone of them offers OGG support.  And Firewire interface is a MUST. My friend just got iPod (well, he's a big MAC fan anyway), and among other things he really likes the fact how quickly he can dump the mp3 files to iPod.

I wonder if Apple would be offering OGG support on iPod - just to be on a bleeding edge ...

Encoder and the future

Reply #8 –
If you must rip or encode before Ogg 1.0 is released, MPC may be the best choice. Simply because it's the only archival-quality format that is tried tested and true, and it's far more reliable than Chevy trucks:D. Otherwise I would say use Ogg, AFTER all of the kinks and things are worked out. Granted, Ogg is sounding mighty nice these days, but rember that quality-wise it is STILL under development - in contrast with MPC, which is finished and stable quality-wise. As soon as the MPC-MP3 direct transoding tool is out, it will be simple enough to transcode directly from archival format to MP3 suitable for non-critical listening on a flash memory-based player. Of course, you could always wait for Ogg 1.0 and get yourself an Ogg portable.

Just my opinion anyway.

James
The sky is blue.

Encoder and the future

Reply #9 –
Quote
Originally posted by mpcfiend
Granted, Ogg is sounding mighty nice these days, but rember that quality-wise it is STILL under development - in contrast with MPC, which is finished and stable quality-wise.
James


Yes, Ogg is still in development.  But that doesn't mean that it is currently unstable.  The format is fixed, and even if specific replaygain support is added to ogg - which at this point appears unlikely - any new decoders will be fully compatible with older ogg files.  With the hardware support ogg is likely to receive in the future, anything you encode now will be usable later on such hardware.

And I should note that MPC isn't _fully_ finalized yet; SV8 with replaygain integration still hasn't come out.

Not to imply that I'm knocking mpc; I just don't expect it to have the same hardward support that ogg will have, and even though mpc may transcode better than other formats, transcoding still hurts the sound quality.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Encoder and the future

Reply #10 –
Quote
If you must rip or encode before Ogg 1.0 is released, MPC may be the best choice.


One could infer from this statement that the quality of ogg vorbis will be superior to that of .mpc-if this is the case, then waiting might be the right idea...

I have seen external drives that can attach via USB or Firewire (or SCSI). This would be ideal, as I could use it with my current system (which does no have firewire), but the drive would also not become obsolete-by utilizing firewire, which should be around for some time. The largest capacity I saw for these was 100 gigs...

Encoder and the future

Reply #11 –
Quote
Originally posted by tangent


MPC may be better than Ogg Vorbis at high bitrates, but those are not the type of bitrates which you want to fill your portable with


Well, in fact, if i manage to buy a portable hard drive device, bitrate is not a real problem... I'd prefere have the best quality, even if that "costs" about 200kb/s...