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Topic: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior (Read 11123 times) previous topic - next topic
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Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

I am a frequent business traveler.  My current hotel room setup includes a pair of UE miniboom bluetooth speakers.  Despite having only an sbc codec, they sound decent and I love the fact that I can set up the pair to play in stereo.

I would like to to move up to either bluetooth aptx or google cast (I usually run my own portable wifi hotspot, so casting is an option).

Can anyone recommend a portable speaker with the following:

1. Not too large (current minibooms are 6x4x3 inches)
2. Play wirelessly from my phone either aptx bluetooth or google cast audio
3. Can play as a stereo pair (wirelessly)

I know that, my current minibooms have 3.5mm inputs, and I could accomplish the above via wires, but I prefer simple and fast setup and breakdown.

Any suggestions?

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #1
Please bear in mind that Chromecast requires an internet connection to work, this may not be always possible when travelling depending on hotel wi-fi etc.

I recently found a JBL flip 3 on sale and am very happy with it. No aptx but you can use 2 of these in stereo using the JBL connect app. This model has now been replaced by the flip 4 which might suit your needs.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #2
Please bear in mind that Chromecast requires an internet connection to work, this may not be always possible when travelling depending on hotel wi-fi etc.

I recently found a JBL flip 3 on sale and am very happy with it. No aptx but you can use 2 of these in stereo using the JBL connect app. This model has now been replaced by the flip 4 which might suit your needs.

Yes, I usually have my own travel wifi router, so I know how to set things up for chromecast, even when the hotel's wifi is tricky.

I'm not aware of any bluetooth APX speaker that can be wirelessly paired.  Please let me know if anyone knows of one.

I am increasingly becoming OK with a wired solution.  As such, I don't need the speakers to have bluetooth or cast built in.  If anyone has any recommendations of a fairly high-end battery speaker with an Aux in, that would also be of interest.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #3
I guess a great pair of computer speakers could work too.  I'd like to keep the kit under 5 lbs (excluding source)

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #4

Yes, I usually have my own travel wifi router, so I know how to set things up for chromecast, even when the hotel's wifi is tricky.

I'm not aware of any bluetooth APX speaker that can be wirelessly paired.  Please let me know if anyone knows of one.
.

OK. I don't know of a speaker that gives you both aptX and wireless pairing. It seems to be one or the other. Other than the flip 3 example, Creative Soundblaster Roar speakers use bluetooth for input but you can connect two of them by cable for stereo. They use aptX.

Up to you which is the most important requirement. I don't know if you have already done this, but I recommend you test whether aptX provides you with an audible benefit with the type of application you have in mind.  You may be surprised. This video gives you an easy way to download some files to compare, hope its ok to link to it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7j-Vwj-JyQ


Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #6
I guess a great pair of computer speakers could work too.  I'd like to keep the kit under 5 lbs (excluding source)

If you surf the web, particularly eBay and Amazon, there are any number of Bluetooth (BT) transmitters and receivers.

If its labelled 4.0 and particularly if it claims APT-X, then it probably is.

IME some of this gear is badly implemented enough that it may actually have a sonic signature.
The BT in more recent cell phones such as my Samsung S5 are alleged to be fully capable of APT-X.

In about a week I may have the time to do some bench tests, and maybe even be able to post music files excerpts for ABX-ing.  If there are any uploads laying around in public places that have critical passages, I'd like to hear about it before I run my tests, rather than... after.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #7
Perhaps this list will help:

https://www.aptx.com/products

Do your mobile devices support AptX? Note that iPhone and iPad don't, and the feature is disabled by default on MacBook and Apple desktops.

My favorite compromise to date is JBL's Charge 3 (non-AptX): some small speakers only sound decent if the room-acoustic gods are smiling, and you position yourself just-so, but this one seems relatively unfussy.

For really filling a space with sound, I might like to try a dipole design: The old Carbon Audio Pocket Speaker was one such (unreliable) product. BeoplayA2 looks intriguing but I have not tried.


Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #9
I guess a great pair of computer speakers could work too.  I'd like to keep the kit under 5 lbs (excluding source)

If you surf the web, particularly eBay and Amazon, there are any number of Bluetooth (BT) transmitters and receivers.

If its labelled 4.0 and particularly if it claims APT-X, then it probably is.

IME some of this gear is badly implemented enough that it may actually have a sonic signature.
The BT in more recent cell phones such as my Samsung S5 are alleged to be fully capable of APT-X.

In about a week I may have the time to do some bench tests, and maybe even be able to post music files excerpts for ABX-ing.  If there are any uploads laying around in public places that have critical passages, I'd like to hear about it before I run my tests, rather than... after.

Arny, it has been over a decade since we last corresponded, but it is nice to talk to you again!

Actually, most Bluetooth 4.0 devices are not aptx.  BT 4.0 primarily means low energy BT.  I think that APTX and other codecs were always allowed in the A2DP profile, which long preceded BT 4.0.  Thus 4.0 doesn't imply APTX, nor APTX imply 4.0.

Yes, your and my Samsung Note 5 are aptx sources.  I verified this using these steps (the last answer is mine): http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/26410/how-do-i-determine-which-a2dp-codecs-my-phone-supports-is-currently-using/100420

Unfortunately, most of my BT sinks are only using the required sbc, and then only with medium quality.  It isn't very good:

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 2.0.2 report
foobar2000 v1.3.14
2017-03-01 22:53:31

File A: OFortuna.wav
SHA1: eaf3fb5ca7b05f187a82de511264c0e30e3bf80e
File B: OFortuna_sbc.wav
SHA1: a95882eb3e45159242b33c883fb6756ede12b0b1

Output:
DS : Primary Sound Driver
Crossfading: NO

22:53:31 : Test started.
22:56:20 : 01/01
22:56:36 : 02/02
22:56:57 : 03/03
22:57:15 : 04/04
22:57:40 : 05/05
22:58:06 : 06/06
22:58:18 : 07/07
22:58:29 : 08/08
22:58:48 : 09/09
22:58:48 : Test finished.

 ----------
Total: 9/9
Probability that you were guessing: 0.2%

 -- signature --
b7daff94e04961488fe5266d743b2f20423b7b17

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 2.0.2 report
foobar2000 v1.3.14
2017-03-01 21:33:28

File A: 5.wav
SHA1: b51660c14afca6b208b51e71f503d71f4508aff5
File B: 5sbc.wav
SHA1: 92ff60ffbe9ab48ec872e9cdd7974f781c5b7468

Output:
DS : Primary Sound Driver
Crossfading: NO

21:33:28 : Test started.
21:39:23 : 01/01
21:39:56 : 02/02
21:41:43 : 03/03
21:43:55 : 04/04
21:45:36 : 05/05
21:47:01 : 06/06
21:48:31 : 07/07
21:49:45 : 08/08
21:51:12 : 09/09
21:51:12 : Test finished.

 ----------
Total: 9/9
Probability that you were guessing: 0.2%

 -- signature --
ffee232fbeeb263c77b3ed83e446d1b745bbb1dc

APTX is much better, mostly because it uses a higher bit rate than medium-quality sbc.  However, there is (to my knowledge) any software implementations of APTX freely available, so there aren't many test files available for testing.

I prepared the sbc files myself, and am happy to share (if it can be done legally).  Specifically, the first loud section of O Fortuna from Carmina Burana shows clear flaws in the sbc (medium profile) setting, however mp3 at 128 kbs does much better.  Would be interesting to see how they do on APTX.

I'd be happy to collaborate on this testing...

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #10
Perhaps this list will help:

https://www.aptx.com/products

Do your mobile devices support AptX? Note that iPhone and iPad don't, and the feature is disabled by default on MacBook and Apple desktops.

Yes, but iPhones support the AAC codec over A2DP bluetooth.  I would be interested if the receiver used in the youtube above also supports AAC, which might explain the performance...  I'll need to try to look it up.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #11

OK. I don't know of a speaker that gives you both aptX and wireless pairing. It seems to be one or the other. Other than the flip 3 example, Creative Soundblaster Roar speakers use bluetooth for input but you can connect two of them by cable for stereo. They use aptX.


Good info on the wired stereo option on the Roar!  Thank you!

So far, the only speaker I know that can play aptx and wireless stereo (although I haven't confirmed that it can do both at the same time) is the Riva S.  Has anyone played with this one?

Also, I am also thinking that, in my hotel, I don't really need wireless, a battery, or even bluetooth in the speaker.  That makes me think a wired set of "computer speakers" may be my best bet.  I'll try to start that in a separate thread, keeping this "wireless" discussion as a clear preference for fast set-up and breakdown needed for the road warrior.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #12

Yes, I usually have my own travel wifi router, so I know how to set things up for chromecast, even when the hotel's wifi is tricky.

I'm not aware of any bluetooth APX speaker that can be wirelessly paired.  Please let me know if anyone knows of one.
.

OK. I don't know of a speaker that gives you both aptX and wireless pairing. It seems to be one or the other. Other than the flip 3 example, Creative Soundblaster Roar speakers use bluetooth for input but you can connect two of them by cable for stereo. They use aptX.

Up to you which is the most important requirement. I don't know if you have already done this, but I recommend you test whether aptX provides you with an audible benefit with the type of application you have in mind.  You may be surprised. This video gives you an easy way to download some files to compare, hope its ok to link to it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7j-Vwj-JyQ

Hi again!  I have been doing research since my last post.  A few updates:

1. The clavinetjunkie youtube video double blind test is misleading.  I have been corresponding with the poster with the hopes that he sets things straight, specifically that the non-aptx files he is sharing are almost certainly using the high quality profile of sbc, not the medium profile that most people actually experience.
2. I have found a bluetooth speaker that does both aptx and wireless pairing, the Beoplay S3.  However, it has no battery, so must be plugged in via AC power.  That is actually a plus for me.  I just got a pair and will post once I got a chance to give a good listen.


Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #13
Surprising everyone, Google is going to implement both aptX and LDAC (Sony's BT codec) in the next major Android version "O". I don't know how good Samsung is with updates, but if you can get a phone with Android O later this year, then Sony has pretty much what you're asking for, only instead of aptX, you would have to use LDAC. The XB20 and above fit the bill except they don't have WiFi, but the HG1 does, and offers Google Cast. The caveat on that one is that apparently the stereo function is handled differently, you need to do it via the app and I think it syncs the speakers via WiFi, though I could be wrong about that.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #14
To add: apparently their last gen speakers (XB3, etc.) do support aptX, though are BT 3.0, and the newer are 4.2. Dunno how the low-energy 4.x BT spec would affect battery life; probably not noticeable since the low-energy spec was meant for wearables and other very small BT devices and peripherals.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #15
Surprising everyone, Google is going to implement both aptX and LDAC (Sony's BT codec) in the next major Android version "O". I don't know how good Samsung is with updates, but if you can get a phone with Android O later this year, then Sony has pretty much what you're asking for, only instead of aptX, you would have to use LDAC. The XB20 and above fit the bill except they don't have WiFi, but the HG1 does, and offers Google Cast. The caveat on that one is that apparently the stereo function is handled differently, you need to do it via the app and I think it syncs the speakers via WiFi, though I could be wrong about that.

Good info on the LDAC.  I wonder if it will really take off, as I think that, despite the future Android support, I'm not sure what problem it is solving.  If you want higher resolution, it seems that cast and airplay are already in place and have the solid backing of lots of influential players.  Why would you want 96 kHz/24 bit music to be played through a portable speaker that, due to its portability, has to make all sorts of compromises?  My hunch is that the portable audio community will work out the network routing implicit with needing a common access point for wifi, and that is much easier to solve than introduction of a new bluetooth codec.

Still, very interesting contribution, andy.  Thank you!

Does anyone have any better technical sources as to how LDAC actually works?  Is it running on top of the A2DP?

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #16
Good info on the LDAC.  I wonder if it will really take off, as I think that, despite the future Android support, I'm not sure what problem it is solving.  If you want higher resolution, it seems that cast and airplay are already in place and have the solid backing of lots of influential players.
It's solving the problem of Sony not having a proprietary format to push in this decade. Joking aside, it's not so much a direct competition to Airplay/Cast, since it's a BT codec, you don't need WiFi. It's a direct competition to aptX. Both are proprietary codecs that work through A2DP. BT in general also has much less latency than Airplay/Cast, both of which are impossible to do for video (unless you're streaming video/audio together), so for instance, no video watching on your phone and sound playing on your Airplay/Cast speaker. And forget about games. BT sometimes can support even games. Dunno if LDAC has any improvements on latency, but aptX has a low-latency codec, unfortunately I'm not sure if it's that popular. I've only seen one super crappy noisy as hell adapter that I bought and returned at Amazon.

Quote
Why would you want 96 kHz/24 bit music to be played through a portable speaker that, due to its portability, has to make all sorts of compromises?
Personally, I don't care about "hi-res" audio, but Sony is pushing it relatively hard. I don't like that marketing part of it, but on the other hand they are coming out with interesting products that not many other brands are, like their portable Cast speakers. I'm mildly interested in LDAC not for the "hi-res", but for the much higher bitrate than regular SBC. I would rather them concentrate in reducing latency though, than silly hi-res marketing that should have died in the 90's.

Quote
My hunch is that the portable audio community will work out the network routing implicit with needing a common access point for wifi, and that is much easier to solve than introduction of a new bluetooth codec.
There is WiFi Direct, but from what I've found myself, it's a mess. More miss than hit, to be honest. And I'm pretty sure its main feature, being able to stay connected to a WiFi access point and at the same time connecting via WiFi Direct to another device, requires hardware support that I don't think any current phone has (that I know of).

PS: btw, I don't remember where I got that the XB3 supported aptX, apparently it doesn't. I know some of the older speakers did, like the x7, but the newer ones like my x77 stopped supporting it in favor of their own proprietary codec. Just Sony being Sony.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #17
I find this whole LDAC vs aptx vs SBC codec discussion interesting, and will try to move it to a separate thread so andy and I can blather on. ;-)

Back to the topic at hand: I do think that aptx is "good enough" for the use case discussed.  Heck, I think even sbc at high quality (328 kbps) sounds pretty good-take a listen to the non-aptx (iPhone) files from clavinetjunkie posted above.  I don't think any more bits are needed by me, or most people. 

But, having been experimenting, I am becoming more and more frustrated with bluetooth A2DP in general.  It shares the same ISM band as wifi and a lot of other unlicensed devices.  In a hotel, the spectrum can get very crowded.  Even the Beoplay S3 (a "high-end" bluetooth solution) experiences drop outs (very frequently) and challenges re-pairing requiring a phone restart (infrequently).  I find I need to leave my phone right next to my speakers to maintain a solid bluetooth connection, at which point, what's the point?  If you need your phone sitting next to your speakers, I'll use wires, thank you very much.  Always just works and no dropouts.  I've wrapped a few thousand audio cables thus far, so I still expect fast setups and tear-downs.  Also, I can use my smartwatch to pause, skip, change volume on my phone, which works almost perfectly.

So I'm leaning towards just getting a decent set of "computer speakers", i.e. small powered speakers with 3.5mm input, no battery, no wireless audio.  The iLoud micro monitors are on order, and I'm also considering the small AudioEngine pair.  I'll let you know when I take a listen.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #18
Personally, I would go with one or two of the newer Sony XB speakers, or the older XB ones if money is an issue. But I have long stopped caring too much about "sound quality". Most of these small speakers don't even have tweeters, and they're not big enough to produce very deep frequencies anyway, and in the environment they're most likely to be used (outdoors, or like me, in the shower or kitchen) you're not likely to hear any subtle differences between the BT codecs.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #19
So far, the only speaker I know that can play aptx and wireless stereo (although I haven't confirmed that it can do both at the same time) is the Riva S.  Has anyone played with this one?

My wife uses one in her office, and I carry the larger model (Turbo X) when I travel. The Turbo S comes with a bag, but the Turbo X bag is an add on accessory. The Turbo S bag does not hold the power supply, just the unit.

The Turbo X cannot be paired, but it's the only little boombox I've heard that produces  a cognizable sonic image, when placed right and listening directly in front of it. My only complaint with either Riva box is that Bluetooth is generally annoying. AirPlay is far better in every material aspect.

Riva's top audio engineer, Donald North, is very good at his job. He was also heavily involved in the design of the Aurasound line of full-rangers and subwoofers with their "neo radial" underhung motor, which are still among the finest drive units ever made.

I have no idea about aptx. I don't think that works on Macs or iDevices, so it is of no interest to me.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #20
Personally, I would go with one or two of the newer Sony XB speakers, or the older XB ones if money is an issue. But I have long stopped caring too much about "sound quality". Most of these small speakers don't even have tweeters, and they're not big enough to produce very deep frequencies anyway, and in the environment they're most likely to be used (outdoors, or like me, in the shower or kitchen) you're not likely to hear any subtle differences between the BT codecs.

I wish it was a "subtle differences between the BT codecs".  It isn't.  The abx tests I post above are some evidence, but even in casual listening, it is pretty apparent.  I'll post some audio files so you can judge for yourself.

Re: Recommend: Portable aptx or google cast stereo speakers for road warrior

Reply #21

The Turbo X cannot be paired, but it's the only little boombox I've heard that produces  a cognizable sonic image, when placed right and listening directly in front of it. My only complaint with either Riva box is that Bluetooth is generally annoying. AirPlay is far better in every material aspect.

...

I have no idea about aptx. I don't think that works on Macs or iDevices, so it is of no interest to me.

As I mentioned above, I too am mostly giving up on bluetooth audio over a2dp.  Airplay is indeed better in every material aspect, and Chromecast, being multi platform, is better still.  Chromecast audio device is small and could easily be stuck on the back of your Riva Turbo with two-sided tape if you wanted higher quality wireless without the bluetooth headaches.  Perhaps there is a similar AirPlay dongle too?

Apple products do mostly ignore aptx, but instead use AAC, which is their answer for higher-quality lossy codecs.

Thanks for the hands-on reflections on the Riva products!  Much appreciated.