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  • MinorKey
  • [*]
EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Hello,

I've been a long-time fan of this forum and EAC, but I've never had the need to post here - until now. This is because I was always able to find the answers to my questions, but now I have a little issue I would need your help with. It's really basic actually and I'm sure that for all you experts on here it won't be any kind of problem.

I backup my CDs as single files - I use the action "Copy Image & Create CUE Sheet". Generally I'm pleased with my results - so far all the tracks I have ripped and that are present in the AccurateRip database came out as accurate.
I was thinking of writing a little utility for converting EACV1.3 logsinto CUE sheets and so I started examining some of the logs EAC generated for me. I was shocked to see that I haven't found any pre-gap information in them - at least I think it's not there.
Here is one such log along with the CUE sheet accompanying my rip.

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 5. September 2017, 13:52

Vintersorg / Till Fjälls del II

Used drive  : ASUS    SDRW-08D2S-U   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 103
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 896 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" %source% -o %dest%


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  6:55.22 |         0    |    31146  
        2  |  6:55.22 |  4:16.18 |     31147    |    50364  
        3  | 11:11.40 |  6:58.72 |     50365    |    81786  
        4  | 18:10.37 |  7:20.48 |     81787    |   114834  
        5  | 25:31.10 |  5:25.74 |    114835    |   139283  
        6  | 30:57.09 |  6:33.58 |    139284    |   168816  
        7  | 37:30.67 |  4:58.65 |    168817    |   191231  
        8  | 42:29.57 |  5:46.39 |    191232    |   217220  
        9  | 48:16.21 |  3:25.36 |    217221    |   232631  


Range status and errors

Selected range

     Filename C:\Vintersorg - Till Fjalls del II (Digipak Edition) - CD 1.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Extraction speed 3.1 X
     Range quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 7729BB59
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

 
AccurateRip summary
 
Track  1  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [904C0DED]  (AR v2)
Track  2  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [CD3A9B30]  (AR v2)
Track  3  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [CFDAE941]  (AR v2)
Track  4  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [1CE636FD]  (AR v2)
Track  5  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [C78A8579]  (AR v2)
Track  6  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [2BC266A4]  (AR v2)
Track  7  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [F54631D6]  (AR v2)
Track  8  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [97B9025B]  (AR v2)
Track  9  accurately ripped (confidence 1)  [DE9C39D2]  (AR v2)
 
All tracks accurately ripped

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

[CTDB TOCID: YMjwGyf0etMAt9dzMFjslSuz5i8-] found
Submit result: YMjwGyf0etMAt9dzMFjslSuz5i8- has been confirmed
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | (13/13) Accurately ripped
  2   | (13/13) Accurately ripped
  3   | (13/13) Accurately ripped
  4   | (13/13) Accurately ripped
  5   | (13/13) Accurately ripped
  6   | (13/13) Accurately ripped
  7   | (13/13) Accurately ripped
  8   | (13/13) Accurately ripped
  9   | (13/13) Accurately ripped


Code: [Select]
REM GENRE "Viking/Folk/Progressive Metal"
REM DATE 2017
REM DISCID 800C1D09
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v1.3"
PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
TITLE "Till Fjälls del II"
REM COMPOSER ""
FILE "Vintersorg - Till Fjalls del II (Digipak Edition) - CD 1.flac" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Jökelväktaren"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "En väldig isvidds karga dräkt"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 00 06:55:21
    INDEX 01 06:55:22
    INDEX 02 09:05:27
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "Lavin"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 00 11:11:39
    INDEX 01 11:11:40
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE "Fjällets mäktiga mur"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 00 18:10:36
    INDEX 01 18:10:37
    INDEX 02 25:29:09
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    TITLE "Obygdens pionjär"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 00 25:31:09
    INDEX 01 25:31:10
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    TITLE "Vinterstorm"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 00 30:57:08
    INDEX 01 30:57:09
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    TITLE "Tusenåriga stråk"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 00 37:30:66
    INDEX 01 37:30:67
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    TITLE "Allt mellan himmel och jord"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 00 42:29:56
    INDEX 01 42:29:57
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    TITLE "Vårflod"
    PERFORMER "Vintersorg"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    INDEX 00 48:16:20
    INDEX 01 48:16:21

I haven't done it for all of my CDs, but in this particular case I'm sure that I even pressed F4 to detect the gaps manually prior to extraction. I thought I understood how EAC's gap detection works, but this issue with my logs got me thinking. Is it correct that one doesn't have to detect gaps manually before extracting single file images inorder to get an exact CD copy?
I'm sure I haven't instructed EAC to explicitly detect the gaps in case of many of the albums found in my collection and yet many of the CUE sheets contain pre-gap info. This seemed quite natural to me as EAC automatically detects gaps prior to every extraction as long as the gaps aren't detected first using the manual "F4" method (or so I think). For this reason pressing F4 every time seemed quite redundant to me.
Am I missing something? If my CUE sheets contain pre-gaps, why aren't these showing up in the log?

Many thanks and have a great day! :-)
  • Last Edit: 14 September, 2017, 07:23:54 AM by MinorKey

  • kode54
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #1
They appear to be encoded in the cue sheet as index 0 info. You had the opportunity to configure how they are applied to your files, as well.

  • MinorKey
  • [*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #2
They appear to be encoded in the cue sheet as index 0 info. You had the opportunity to configure how they are applied to your files, as well.

Thank you for your reply.
Well, I know that you can select where in the files you want the gaps to be placed when ripping to individual tracks, but is it normal that status reports (.log files) do not contain pre-gap information in case of image + CUE rips?

  • MinorKey
  • [*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #3
After some more testing I came to the conclusion that it is in fact normal that my extraction logs do not contain pre-gap information. It seems that this type of info only gets written to log files when extracting as multiple tracks + CUE.

Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #4
You're right, it's because you're ripping in range mode.  Here's an example from one of my rips as individual tracks:

Code: [Select]
Track  1

     Filename \Lee Morgan - Lee-Way (1960) [FLAC]\01. These Are The Soulful Days.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 63.2 %
     Extraction speed 2.9 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC D81EF62D
     Copy CRC D81EF62D
     Accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [477DE36E]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename \Lee Morgan - Lee-Way (1960) [FLAC]\02. The Lion And The Wolff.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.44

     Peak level 55.5 %
     Extraction speed 3.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 09288B7D
     Copy CRC 09288B7D
     Accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [5DF1D0D5]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

  • JunkieXL
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #5
As Kode54 said, the pregap lengths are being stored under the index 0 lines.  Index 1 is the start of the song.  I'm not familiar with what the index 2 line is being used for though.  Maybe a post gap length or something?
JXL

  • MinorKey
  • [*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #6
You're right, it's because you're ripping in range mode.  Here's an example from one of my rips as individual tracks:

Code: [Select]
Track  1

     Filename \Lee Morgan - Lee-Way (1960) [FLAC]\01. These Are The Soulful Days.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 63.2 %
     Extraction speed 2.9 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC D81EF62D
     Copy CRC D81EF62D
     Accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [477DE36E]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename \Lee Morgan - Lee-Way (1960) [FLAC]\02. The Lion And The Wolff.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.44

     Peak level 55.5 %
     Extraction speed 3.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 09288B7D
     Copy CRC 09288B7D
     Accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [5DF1D0D5]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK
Thank you for confirming. :-)
Thinking about it it makes sense, but for my purpose it's a little disappointing that it's not possible to reconstruct the original CD structure from single-file rip logs.

  • shaboo
  • [*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #7
Quote
Thinking about it it makes sense, but for my purpose it's a little disappointing that it's not possible to reconstruct the original CD structure from single-file rip logs.
That's why there is a CUE sheet. If you want to reconstruct the original CD structure, you have to generate and keep the CUE sheet. I don't see much sense in repeating CUE sheet information in the log file, just to allow for reconstruction of the CUE sheet.

  • MinorKey
  • [*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #8
As Kode54 said, the pregap lengths are being stored under the index 0 lines.  Index 1 is the start of the song.  I'm not familiar with what the index 2 line is being used for though.  Maybe a post gap length or something?
JXL
Thanks a lot for your input. :-)
I myself have no clue what indices higher than 1 mean, but I've read that some tracks can have them. That being said, after examining some of my CUE sheets (including the one I posted) I realized that I have been using wrong gap detection settings for who knows how long. :-( I'm not sure why, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.
Compared to some (or perhaps most) of the guys on here my collection is rather small (some 200 CDs), but since I'm not sure when I started ripping with incorrect gap settings, I guess I will have to generate CUE sheets for all of the albums I have. ;( Only thing is that I'd like to preserve some of the info in my old CUE sheets (such as track titles and file-naming conventions).

  • MinorKey
  • [*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #9
Quote
Thinking about it it makes sense, but for my purpose it's a little disappointing that it's not possible to reconstruct the original CD structure from single-file rip logs.
That's why there is a CUE sheet. If you want to reconstruct the original CD structure, you have to generate and keep the CUE sheet. I don't see much sense in repeating CUE sheet information in the log file, just to allow for reconstruction of the CUE sheet.
Quote
Thinking about it it makes sense, but for my purpose it's a little disappointing that it's not possible to reconstruct the original CD structure from single-file rip logs.
That's why there is a CUE sheet. If you want to reconstruct the original CD structure, you have to generate and keep the CUE sheet. I don't see much sense in repeating CUE sheet information in the log file, just to allow for reconstruction of the CUE sheet.
I agree, when I think of it it would be redundant to include the entire CD structure in logs for single file rips. After all, it's assumed that one knows what they are doing and that they have the CUE sheet. It's true that logs for multiple file rips contain the pre-gap information, but now I assume that this is because non-compliant CUE sheets aren't generated after extraction by default.
I just thought that a tool for creating CUE files from logs could be useful for those who have lost their original ones due to some reason. I know that there is an online tool for doing just that - that's what gave me the idea and that's why I asked my question in the first place. My idea was to create an offline alternative, but I guess I'll put this aside for the time being. I'm much more concerned with regenerating my CUE sheets anyway. :-(

  • shaboo
  • [*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #10
As Kode54 said, the pregap lengths are being stored under the index 0 lines.  Index 1 is the start of the song.  I'm not familiar with what the index 2 line is being used for though.  Maybe a post gap length or something?
Indices 2,3,... used to be quite common in the beginning of the CD age to divide a track into separate parts, for example an intro (index 0), the song (index 1) and an outro (index 2). They were mainly used to divide very long tracks in classical music or in progressive pop/rock. I have some albums from Marillion and the Alan Parsons Project that are using indizes. A CDP can not only jump to a particular track mark on a CD, but also to a particular index mark, an ability that somehow got lost during the computer/smartphone audio age. I don't know how much indices are still used on the CDs that are manufactured today.

  • JunkieXL
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #11
Thanks for the added information.  That's actually kind of cool and makes a lot of sense for certain music.

I'm listening to Nirvana's MTV Unplugged In New York album right now and think it would have been useful if they had used it.  There is some chatting and audience interaction after some of the songs that I wouldn't mind skipping or leaving out entirely.
JXL

  • Porcus
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: EAC: Why Doesn't My Log Contain Pre-gap Information?
Reply #12
A CDP can not only jump to a particular track mark on a CD, but also to a particular index mark, an ability that somehow got lost during the computer/smartphone audio age.

I was about to write that the ability largely got lost way earlier, as quite a lot of manufacturers dropped the index navigation buttons altogether long before you had smartphones. But OTOH I am not so sure that the "Next" button would then jump to the next track or just the next index point. (My early portable CD player did the latter, but I always assumed that this behaviour was the need to rationalize away buttons in an age when index marks were still a priority, and when the buttons disappeared from stationary players the functionality was gone too. I could very well be/remember wrong.)

I don't know how much indices are still used on the CDs that are manufactured today.

There is some use of index 0 / index 1: that when you skip to track N, it starts on track N index 1 (not 0).  And if you skip from track N-1 to a track that is not N, then you will miss track N index 0. For some live albums (and possibly other albums with continuous sound - that is what the index marks were there for!) you will only hear the artist talk about song N if you keep on playing song N-1 through until it starts on track N index 0. Jump to track N, and it starts at the music; jump from track N-1 to somewhere else, and you will miss the introduction to the song you chose not to hear. Quite a sensible thing to do, as JunkieXL points out.

The standard 2 second silence pregap kinda works that way too: a physical CD player would need a little bit of time to jump from end of track 18 to beginning of track 2 even if preprogrammed to. But in return for that delay, it skips the two seconds of silence that we were used to.

And then there is of course the "hidden track one": music in the pregap before track 1 index 1.
And some geeks even cherish bonuses hidden in pregaps to other songs: http://www.noise11.com/news/will-the-tea-party-perform-the-hidden-transmission-tracks-on-australian-tour-20170620 (disregard the evil connotations of the band's name - just like Isis they chose the name long before the religious nutcases occupied it).

And you have some "novelty use" that is not even music. Arcturus cannot be the only metal band who has indexed track 6 up to index 66 without any other meaning than the obvious ... actually, it is not so "obvious" as using track numbers.


... by the way, hydrogenaudionauts:
How many CDs do you have with narration/music alternating so you could choose play odd / play even / play all? That did not catch much on. I have one such album, by Rick Wakeman.
  • Last Edit: 20 September, 2017, 02:24:11 PM by Porcus