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Topic: "Don't buy copy protected audio CDs" (Read 25315 times) previous topic - next topic
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"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #50
Quote
We are witnessing the collapse of a fetid industry. Sooner than later the people are going to notice who the real culprits are and the corrupt politicians that keep protecting them.

There are generations of people who have grown up with the concept that music is about sharing, to try and keep profitting of the replication of intangible goods won't last much longer.
...
Does the message get across? No problem, someday it will.

Word.

And I'd like to add, "Why should the music industry be allowed to dictate to me how many cds I can have in my collection?"

Here in Norway, one of these corporate retard-advocates recently stated that "...a cd should cost as much as a good book... I think a price of 35 USD is fair."

Now how many cds does that allow a person to have? Most people that I know of, stop collecting music after their first 200-300 cds. They are simply being put of by the high prices (currently up to 19USD).

It is so sad to see that the music industry has opted for the "milk 'em" strategy instead of rolling with the punches, and modernising their distribution scheme.

How much money would there be to save on simply offering music direct from the net? Yes, the price would have to be lower than 10 USD.
But what if people actually wanted to have more music than what they currently have?

Oh well, I think the best way to coax this business into modernising is to put a bullet in its head. Stop buying records altogether, spread music like crazy, and maybe, just maybe, the artists will start a paypal-based online distribution scheme.

EDIT: Snellipg

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #51
Little off-topic, Can anyone explain me how the NoAudio™ copy protection works?
Another thing how they can realize that you've ripped your Watermarked CD and distributed MP3's? How the Watermark works?
Maybe it's a kind of stupid question, but I'm sure there are a lot of other pople who don't know that...
Sorry for my poor English, I'm trying to get better... ;)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist."

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #52
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Another thing how they can realize that you've ripped your Watermarked CD and distributed MP3's? How the Watermark works?

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Is your real question "How can I get away with it?"

Quote
Oh well, I think the best way to coax this business into modernising is to put a bullet in its head. Stop buying records altogether, spread music like crazy, and maybe, just maybe, the artists will start a paypal-based online distribution scheme.


The best way, and legal, is to boycot the publishers who charge too much or otherwise piss you off, and patronize those who deal the way you want.

There are *already* online distributers who take paypal.  One I deal with is [a href="http://www.magnatune.com]magnatune[/url].  THere is a lot of material out there, including albums from grammy winners (so it isn't all just garage bands).
There are also bands who allow free distribution of concert recordings.


If you start out with the attitude that you have to have Britney, Micheal Jackson,  The Car Crashes , or some other band that only distributes traditionally, then you may be dissapointed.  Get over it.  You don't have to have them.

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #53
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We are witnessing the collapse of a fetid industry. Sooner than later the people are going to notice who the real culprits are and the corrupt politicians that keep protecting them.

[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=161485"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You're not wrong, but have you wondered why even 'corrupt politicans' have recently become so sympathetic to these relatively small-time corperate lobbyists?

(BTW, aren't politicans ALL currupt? I've always thought of them as professional liars, at least all the successful 'careerists')

The phrase "thin end of the wedge" springs to mind. DRM legislation *intrinsically* facilitates encroaching on peoples privacy via the internet.

All the law-suits brought by the RIAA et al  against individuals have only been possible by subpeona-ing ISP's into divulging names and addresses of file-sharing 'felons'.

I think it's all about control, and not just 'copy control'.

RF


RF.

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #54
To come back to the original question.
Buy the CD protected, rip it with a work around et bring it back to the shop saying it doesn't work properly on your PC (and it's everything you have for the music).

You have your music and the shop knows why you don't want this crap...

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #55
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Is your real question "How can I get away with it"?


No, I've never faced it (and I hope I won't) I'm just curious...

Quote
The best way, and legal, is to boycot the publishers who charge too much or otherwise piss you off, and patronize those who deal the way you want.


Yeah! That's the decision I've made after buying new Megadeth remasters. But the problem is that I got it from shipment service (they are probably getting the CD's in illegal way, because they are very cheap, but for sure they are originals!) so I think I probably can't bring it back.

Quote
BTW, aren't politicans ALL currupt? I've always thought of them as professional liars, at least all the successful 'careerists'


I think they are!

===========

So once again...

Little off-topic:
Can anyone explain me how the NoAudio™ copy protection works?
Another thing how they can realize that you've ripped your Watermarked CD and distributed MP3's?
How the Watermark works?

Maybe it's a kind of stupid question, but I'm sure there are a lot of other people who don't know that...
Sorry for my poor English, I'm trying to get better... ;)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist."

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #56
Quote
To come back to the original question.
Buy the CD protected, rip it with a work around et bring it back to the shop saying it doesn't work properly on your PC (and it's everything you have for the music).

You have your music and the shop knows why you don't want this crap...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249511"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What you are suggesting is considered highly illegal ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #57
Quote
Quote
To come back to the original question.
Buy the CD protected, rip it with a work around et bring it back to the shop saying it doesn't work properly on your PC (and it's everything you have for the music).

You have your music and the shop knows why you don't want this crap...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249511"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What you are suggesting is considered highly illegal ...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249562"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not in France, I think

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #58
For the third time...

Little off-topic:
Can anyone explain me how the NoAudio™ copy protection works?
Another thing how they can realize that you've ripped your Watermarked CD and distributed MP3's?
How the Watermark works?

Maybe it's a kind of stupid question, but I'm sure there are a lot of other people who don't know that...
Sorry for my poor English, I'm trying to get better... ;)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist."

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #59
Quote
Los Angeles, CA - Major record labels are queuing up to voice their support for MicroBlinker's new CD encryption technology which they say renders audio CDs impervious to pirating.  Called NoAudio, it sets the standard in CD copy protection.  The scrambling technology works by taking the audio signal and applying MicroBlinker's patented TotalAttenuation algorithm to prevent the audio content from being, 'ripped'.

From: http://bbspot.com/News/2001/08/encrypt.html


What I do not understand is that PCM data on a CD is already "scrambled" due to CIRC error correction and EFM coding ... any other/additional scrambling algorithm would render the music data completely unusable for any standalone device.

I still believe they are just making fun ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #60
Quote
Quote
Quote
To come back to the original question.
Buy the CD protected, rip it with a work around et bring it back to the shop saying it doesn't work properly on your PC (and it's everything you have for the music).

You have your music and the shop knows why you don't want this crap...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249511"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What you are suggesting is considered highly illegal ...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249562"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not in France, I think
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249650"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It is, even in France (since France blongs to the EU).

Behaving this way (copying the CD, keeping the copy and returning the original for a refund) will only justify the music business' actions. By doing so, you become the kind of  computer user the music industry is always complaining about ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #61
Quote
Quote
To come back to the original question.
Buy the CD protected, rip it with a work around et bring it back to the shop saying it doesn't work properly on your PC (and it's everything you have for the music).

You have your music and the shop knows why you don't want this crap...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249511"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What you are suggesting is considered highly illegal ...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249562"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes it's clearly illegal. It was a kind of provocation 
Anyway, this kind of protection scheme is also considered as illegal in few countries (including in France).

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #62
Quote
Quote
Los Angeles, CA - Major record labels are queuing up to voice their support for MicroBlinker's new CD encryption technology which they say renders audio CDs impervious to pirating.  Called NoAudio, it sets the standard in CD copy protection.  The scrambling technology works by taking the audio signal and applying MicroBlinker's patented TotalAttenuation algorithm to prevent the audio content from being, 'ripped'.

From: http://bbspot.com/News/2001/08/encrypt.html


What I do not understand is that PCM data on a CD is already "scrambled" due to CIRC error correction and EFM coding ... any other/additional scrambling algorithm would render the music data completely unusable for any standalone device.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249661"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think it was an hoax.

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #63
OMG, I thought that by now everybody knew bbspot.com is a humor website. I guess I was wrong...
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #64
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OMG, I thought that by now everybody knew bbspot.com is a humor website. I guess I was wrong...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249668"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

We were all afraid 

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #65
Damn ... my edit came too late ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #66
Unfortunately, copying copy protected material is completely illegal in the EU since the beginning of 2004. (copy protection in this context is CDS and others, not SCMS) On the other hand, the right for a private digital copy (first generation) is confirmed. But it's useless, since in reality most CDs have copy protection. So actually the right for private copying is destroyed.
What about the law in USA and Australia ? I've read somewhere on HA that in Australia there seem to be no non-copy protected CDs.
Sorry for k.eight.a's question...
I know that I know nothing. But how can I then know that ?

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #67
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Sorry for k.eight.a's question...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249920"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I don't understand you...

For the fourth time... 

It seems that "NoAudio™ copy protection" is a joke...

But I still have not received answer to these my questions:

Another thing how they can realize that you've ripped your Watermarked CD and distributed MP3's?
How the Watermark works?

Maybe it's a kind of stupid question, but I'm sure there are a lot of other people who don't know that... 

PS: For your information I'm not interested in the law issues as you're still mulling over so I don't see any reason why there's no one who can explain these simple questions to me...
Sorry for my poor English, I'm trying to get better... ;)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist."

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #68
@k.eight.a
Just google...   

Quote
Watermark: A unique inaudible code, which is inserted into an audio file in order to identify the first person who legally purchased the file. If you buy a watermarked MP3 and then distribute it over the Internet, the RIAA will be able to tell that you are the person who originally broke copyright law and distributed the file. Watermarks have yet to be deployed by the SDMI.

How the Watermark works?
Maybe one of this this pages can help
http://www.ece.uvic.ca/499/2003a/group09/w/watermarking.htm
http://www.cmlab.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~dynamic/AWM/
http://www.audiblemagic.com/documents/Technology_Summary.pdf
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/D/digital_watermark.html
....

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #69
Quote
Unfortunately, copying copy protected material is completely illegal in the EU since the beginning of 2004. (copy protection in this context is CDS and others, not SCMS)


To be more precise, it is illegal to use non-simple means (e.g. EAC's "Detect TOC Manually" function for CDS discs) to circumvent a working copy protection.

It is perfectly legal to grab your CD player's SPDIF output with a non-resampling soundcard to obtain a digital copy. It is perfectly legal to rip a CDS disc, too if your optical drive is not irritated by the copy protection ... just jam in the disc - if it is recognised and you can rip it without further user interference or application of e.g. AnyDVD, the copy protection does not work at all in your case and thus must not be designated as "working copy protection".

What I'm still asking myself is whether Plextool's "First Session Only" feature (useful for some protected audio CD's) renders Plextools illegal in the EU ... and Plextools are shipped with Plex drives in the EU only ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #70
Quote
@k.eight.a
Just google...   

Quote
Watermark: A unique inaudible code, which is inserted into an audio file in order to identify the first person who legally purchased the file. If you buy a watermarked MP3 and then distribute it over the Internet, the RIAA will be able to tell that you are the person who originally broke copyright law and distributed the file. Watermarks have yet to be deployed by the SDMI.

How the Watermark works?
Maybe one of this this pages can help
http://www.ece.uvic.ca/499/2003a/group09/w/watermarking.htm
http://www.cmlab.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~dynamic/AWM/
http://www.audiblemagic.com/documents/Technology_Summary.pdf
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/D/digital_watermark.html
....
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249960"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks a lot, I hope I'll understand when I begin to check it up! 

BTW: How can I realize that I already own some watermarked MP3's? Is it possible? 

PS: Well, from your article it seems to me, that RIAA have to check every MP3 file on the internet, so I think it's almost impossible to catch them...
Sorry for my poor English, I'm trying to get better... ;)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist."

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #71
Quote
It is, even in France (since France blongs to the EU).

Behaving this way (copying the CD, keeping the copy and returning the original for a refund) will only justify the music business' actions. By doing so, you become the kind of  computer user the music industry is always complaining about ...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=249662"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that this is allowed (for the time being)
In France we have a law which states that an author cannot forbid any copy or reproduction once his work has been released (Code de la propriété intellectuelle, Article L122-5 )
Basically we can copy everything providing that we've got it legally... And buying a CD is legal isn't it? Giving the CD back doesn't change anything to this.

This may not be a good thing on a moral point of view, but it is legal, in France at least.

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #72
Quote
Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that this is allowed (for the time being)
In France we have a law which states that an author cannot forbid any copy or reproduction once his work has been released (Code de la propriété intellectuelle, Article L122-5 )
Basically we can copy everything providing that we've got it legally... And buying a CD is legal isn't it? Giving the CD back doesn't change anything to this.

This may not be a good thing on a moral point of view, but it is legal, in France at least.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=250025"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I am pretty sure that you would have to return the copies as well to stay on the legal side ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #73
Quote
Quote

Sorry for k.eight.a's question...


I don't understand you...  sad.gif

I wanted to say that I feel sad about your original questions. They revived the topic but aren't be answered again and again.
Quote
Quote

Unfortunately, copying copy protected material is completely illegal in the EU since the beginning of 2004. (copy protection in this context is CDS and others, not SCMS)



To be more precise, it is illegal to use non-simple means (e.g. EAC's "Detect TOC Manually" function for CDS discs) to circumvent a working copy protection.

It is perfectly legal to grab your CD player's SPDIF output with a non-resampling soundcard to obtain a digital copy. It is perfectly legal to rip a CDS disc, too if your optical drive is not irritated by the copy protection ... just jam in the disc - if it is recognised and you can rip it without further user interference or application of e.g. AnyDVD, the copy protection does not work at all in your case and thus must not be designated as "working copy protection".

Where did you get that information ? That makes the whole issue less precise. Isn't the copy protection working when it causes interpolation in the standalone CD player's dig out ? If EAC performs a bit error correction, is it CDS or just some scratches (or both) ?
Quote
Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that this is allowed (for the time being)
In France we have a law which states that an author cannot forbid any copy or reproduction once his work has been released (Code de la propriété intellectuelle, Article L122-5 )
Basically we can copy everything providing that we've got it legally... And buying a CD is legal isn't it? Giving the CD back doesn't change anything to this.

Every member state has to comply with EU law. Maybe you can't believe it  , but this is also valid for France. I'm sure that article only allows first generation copies for yourself and your nearest family/friends. (Can't read French  ...)
I know that I know nothing. But how can I then know that ?

"Don't buy copy protected audio CDs"

Reply #74
Quote
Where did you get that information ? That makes the whole issue less precise. Isn't the copy protection working when it causes interpolation in the standalone CD player's dig out ? If EAC performs a bit error correction, is it CDS or just some scratches (or both) ?


This is just logical ... if your PC does recognise the disc (assuming, you do not use any altered file system driver or crack like AnyDVD), you can read it and the copy protection (which is aimed at preventing the CD from being recognised in an optical disc drive), in that case, does not work and thus isn't present in a legal sense ... therefore, you are moving into the area of the copyright law which (still) grants several "private copies".

The revised EU copyright law isn't that precise at all ... there are cases that are clear IMO (e.g. cracking a Video DVD's protection with the appropriate software or using burning applications that use non-standard methods for defeating game protections) but there are cases that are unclear as well.

As an example stands EAC: as a preventive move, André Wiethoff (EAC coder) removed the "Detect TOC manually" function from EAC just to be sure his app stays legal (and to prevent a potential time-consuming fight against a bunch of greedy Sony/BMG lawyers). Since he lives in Germany and everybody does know his adress, he'd be f***ed really fast if the s**t would hit the fan.

But, regarding the standalone CD player (remember - copy protections are especially developed to be non-existant on standalones), why should it be illegal to play back the CD and record (assuming the SCMS bit is not set) it to a digital recording device like DAT, MD, CD-R standalone or a PC being configured like a harddisk recorder (studios do that all the time ...)

It's all about what judges will conclude in the future, I guess ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper