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Topic: Normalize before or Mp3 gain after? (Read 4503 times) previous topic - next topic
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Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Hi I am new to this and I just have a quick question. Is it better to normalize my wav's in Exact Audio Copy until I finally through trial and error and after encoding with LAME arrive at a volume level that reads 89.0 as measured in Mp3 Gain? Or is it better to just rip the wav unnormalized then after encoding adjust track gain in Mp3 gain? Or does it not matter at all? Thanks

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #1 –
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Or is it better to just rip the wav unnormalized then after encoding adjust track gain in Mp3 gain?

Rip the wav unnormalized then after use mp3gain.

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #2 –
First of all, mp3gain uses the replaygain method of normalizing, which is much more intelligent. Second of all, I understand that normalizing wave files is a lossy process due to rounding. Normalizing using mp3gain is completely lossless and reversible because each mp3 frame has a global gain field and mp3gain just increments or decrements this value by 1 (1.5db) at a time.

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #3 –
use mp3gain of course. too easy.

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #4 –
I was wondering the same thing.  I've been ripping cds today and I noticed that many tracks are coming out as %100.0 peak...  Does that mean I've already lost data or does the wav file retain values even if they are at or over the peak?
"Have you ever been with a woman? It's like death. You moan, you scream and then you start to beg for mercy, for salvation"

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #5 –
if mp3s show clipping, it doesn't mean they have actually lost data, just that its too loud to play. when you mp3gain down to 89db it should fix them. No information was lost, don't worry!

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #6 –
Societal Eclipse: The 100% during ripping (e.g. in EAC) is quite common, especially in recent years. The mastering engineer allowed the CD to reach full scale. This may be through dynamic compression or limiting, normalising or even clipping. If it's happened already and been stored on the CD, there's nothing you can do about it (but careful mastering should have ensured it was inaudible if it was clipped).

The MP3, Musepack or Vorbis encodings you make will almost certainly then exceed what would have been full scale, but nothing has been lost, and MP3gain or a decoder (such as foobar's) using the replaygain info can produce the original sound without added clipping, as Jebus said.

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #7 –
Alright I was just worried that I would have to use EAC's normalization which I have heard many times is lossy unlike MP3Gain.
"Have you ever been with a woman? It's like death. You moan, you scream and then you start to beg for mercy, for salvation"

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #8 –
Quote
Alright I was just worried that I would have to use EAC's normalization which I have heard many times is lossy unlike MP3Gain.

I'll preface this by saying that in most cases you will want to use mp3gain/replaygain and leave the original wav untouched before you encode it...  Well, it's lossy to normalize the wav in the sense that if you lower the volume by x amount, everything that was quieter than that point already gets lost because obviously it gets pushed below the 'floor' into oblivion.  When you listen to the mp3 of the same track that has also had its volume lowered by the same x amount it will also be missing the same information.  The only way the mp3gain method differs is that if you reverse your gain change you will then have all the information back since you've moved the volume floor back to its orginal position.  So, if you never reverse the mp3gain change, in reality either method will result in the exact same thing.  (Unless of course you are not playing back at 16bit resolution.  If you have a 24 bit soundcard and are playing the mp3s back at 24bit resolution then it's entirely possible and probable that the mp3gain process will still leave you some room above the volume floor, since you have more room than in a 16 bit situation to begin with.  In this case it would be wiser to leave the wav untouched and use mp3gain, though generally speaking you should be taking this route anyways.)

<edit> Not to mention it's more than a little harder to know how much to set EAC's normalization value at, if your goal is to match volumes between different tracks and albums.

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #9 –
Thanks for the clarification all. I just wish mp3 gain would adjust the volume a little more precisely instead of the 1.5db increments. Oh well ,thanks again

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #10 –
if you use the replaygain functionality in foobar2k you can do away with the 1.5 db limit.  The downside is that only foobar2k will recognize the replaygain info (stored in ape tags) and no portables will.  Conversely, the great thing about mp3gain is that it works fine for portable use.
 

Normalize before or Mp3 gain after?

Reply #11 –
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Thanks for the clarification all. I just wish mp3 gain would adjust the volume a little more precisely instead of the 1.5db increments. Oh well ,thanks again

that's a limitation of the mp3 format, nothing can be done about it, really.  And 1.5dB isn't much, foobar's implementation is more accurate, but the difference is somewhat subtle and not worth worry a hell of a lot over.  I'd worry more about where you're going to be playing the files back. i.e. only on the computer, or in your car too, or a portable while you jog, etc.