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Topic: Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o (Read 32951 times) previous topic - next topic
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Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #50 –
Quote
Foobar is better then winamp  

If you like winamp that much, why not get the winamp skin for foobar 

Uh...You got ABX results to back up that statement?

(Just kidding!)   

Anyway, I'd agree that Foobar is much more configurable than Winamp, and seems to have better developer support as well, but I'm just not smart enough to figure out super-1337-string-programming yet to get the power flowing.   

Or would the Winamp skin do some of that for me?

------------------

As for my belief that the W/A Library Unicode issue had been fixed...it hasn't, I was wrong.  Read that it will take a major re-write of W/A to support Unicode and international character sets.  Never happen just to fix that, more than likely. Oh, well...maybe there aren't enough international users of W/A?  (Or enough users with music with Unicode in tag fields, anyway?)

And concerning Milkdrop 1.04, got my problem fixed.  It was just a config issue.  And let me say, Milkdrop is s*l*i*c*k!  I know it's been around, but this is my first time with it.  This is a feature only of interest to DJs with giant video panels behind them, I know, but it's an awesome step up from less-capable visualization formats, as long as you have enough PC/video-subsystem to make it run well, which I barely do.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #51 –
I for one am getting tired of hearing people mention foobar at every possible oppertunity, especially in a winamp thread... mentioning foobar is totally offtopic and not very constructive   

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #52 –
Quote
I for one am getting tired of hearing people mention foobar at every possible oppertunity, especially in a winamp thread... mentioning foobar is totally offtopic and not very constructive   

Mentioning foobar2000 *is* constructive, as I've been ranting at Winamp developers about eg. unicode support for long time, with no results worth mentioning; perhaps proper competition will force them to start learning. I don't think media library supports unicode, they most likely only fixed bug with converting UTF-8 (used internally by vorbis comments) to ANSI. Try reading Vorbis files with Russian or Chineese characters in tags.
As long as they use Winamp v2.x plugins, title display is limited to ANSI for sure, and so are file paths; though most of their input plugins probably carry hack to guess unicode file path from "crippled" ANSI path converted from unicode path containing characters that don't have ANSI counterparts (eg. "c:\directory\????? ?????.mp3"); however, if you have two files that give same string after converting their file path to ANSI, Winamp won't be able to recognize any difference between them and if you add both of them to playlist, it will look like it added first of them twice (problem unfixable within current input plugin spec; it doesn't look like they will ever do anything about it seeing that they dropped Winamp3 component architecture).
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #53 –
Quote
Mentioning foobar2000 *is* constructive, as I've been ranting at Winamp developers about eg. unicode support for long time, with no results worth mentioning; perhaps proper competition will force them to start learning. I don't think media library supports unicode, they most likely only fixed bug with converting UTF-8 (used internally by vorbis comments) to ANSI.

First of all, thank you Peter for your post here.  It reinforces what I just said about developer support...how often would the Winamp developer(s) try to help with (or even comment on) any Foobar2000 issues?  Not in this lifetime, I'll bet.  That's the kind of unheard-of attention that makes me really want to use fb2k.  I only use W/A because it's quick and easy (for an idiot like me), and only because I haven't had time recently to really learn fb2k configuration.  Oh well...I will soon, I hope.

Anyway...W/A 2.91, 2.95beta and this 5.0alpha seem to do fine for reading Unicode in the main title display and in the playlist window.  It's only the media library that has a problem with it.  I turn off the Use bitmap font for main title display to enable it to properly display international characters in the title and playlist displays.  I wonder why there can't be a similar function for the library?  And as for two files ending up with the same path/name after unicode>ANSI conversion, I don't think I'll have that specific problem with my music, as I haven't come across two files named closely enough even when unicode is involved.

[mild rant=on]
I'm no programmer (though I am a software config mgr), but I'm confused as to why the app would need an entire rewrite just to enable unicode support in the library?!?  I'm sure there's a valid reason, though.  Maybe because the library was designed and "born" as a seperate application with a separate source architecture?  It is a plug-in, after all.  So why can't they just re-write the plug-in?
[/mild rant]

That's OK...I estimate that in a few weeks I'll be a happy fb2k user anyways.  Then I can uninstall W/A altogether.  And screw the W/A skin.  As for interface eye-candy, less is more.  But if I need W/A just for visualization support (at parties, etc.) then I'll keep it around for that, I suppose.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #54 –
Ability to display "international" characters from current ANSI codepage != unicode support.
Try Chineese or Russian.
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #55 –
Nothing(WAx.x) can beat 2.81 +Peter's plugins! 

AND WA5's plug-ins is STILL Peter's waveOut/DirectSound/vorbis.......... B)
It's My Life,
It's Now Or Never,
I Ain't Gonna Live Forever,
I Just Want To Live While I'm Alive.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #56 –
I hope Winamp5 became an alternative to the 2.xx versions......back to the muthaphukin roots!

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #58 –
I confirm Peter's comment about unicode. My 2 main languages are Hebrew and Russian (I know that looks strange  ), so I use both of them while tagging... Winamp2 just doesn't have a clue about unicode at all... Neither while reading a file path, nor in tags. They don't want to support an international users, but they'll be forced to do so sooner or later, because of competition with other/better solutions. I realy hope that foobar will be the one who'll make such a difference in Nullsoft approach. I don't think I'll ever return back to winamp, but,  for others who use it, I'd want to see such a change. At least, there will be less screwed up tags out there. 

BTW: (Slightly off topic) On winamp's forum I saw a request of some member to include MPC plugin in winamp's distribution. One of the admins replied with an explaination about leagal problems and AOL, as usual. He was asked about vorbis official plugin and the answer was that it's included in a distribution because one of the former winamp plugins developers was a big vorbis fans. Interesting, who is he talking about?     

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #60 –
Quote
All WA2 plugins work with WA5.

With some cosmetic bugs, also with WA3 skin. Bug about scrolling that I wrote before also skin bug, MMD3.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #61 –
I'd like to explain to you guys why winamp is adding id3 tags to mpeg-2 aac files it rips.

Firstly, winamp has an mpeg-2 aac licence for encoding.  Not an mpeg-4 licence.

You can say "AOL should pay for the mpeg-4 licence" all you like, it isn't going to change the position on it.

If you see here: http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4...licenseFAQ.html
Quote
If I am an MPEG-2 AAC licensee, should I take an MPEG-4 AAC license?
If you only wish to build MPEG-2 AAC products (for example, ISDB broadcast receivers), then an MPEG-2 AAC license is sufficient. However, if you wish to incorporate additional MPEG-4 AAC tools to target products for wireless networking or low-bandwidth streaming, then an MPEG-4 AAC license is needed.


If winamp was to use (as is the suggested solution) the MP4 wrapper, that is part of the MPEG-4 AAC tools as mentioned above (as far as I know), and as such needs an MPEG-4 AAC licence. Which winamp doesn't have.

So, we can't use that method to tag.
And as I'm sure you are aware, there is no tagging standard for mpeg-2 AAC, so any tag that we add would break the standard.

Thus winamp (optionally) adds ID3 tags.  This works on a mulititude of different decoders, as it is the most widly used tagging format.

Any questions or suggestions? (apart from "use foobar or linux", cause that won't help anything)

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #62 –
The MP4 file format has nothing to do with AAC. It's just a container format in which you can mux AAC data. It's not an AAC tool.

Menno

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #63 –
Quote
Any questions or suggestions?

Is it guaranteed that no compliant decoder will attempt to decode the tag?

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #64 –
Quote
Is it guaranteed that no compliant decoder will attempt to decode the tag?

All of the players we have tried have decoded correctly. (Including the goodmans and sony hardware decoders, or so i'm told)

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #65 –
Quote
All of the players we have tried have decoded correctly. (Including the goodmans and sony hardware decoders, or so i'm told)

How about if you take the AAC stream and put it into an MP4?

Anyway, according to this mail there may not be any patents on the base MP4 file format, as long you don't use hinting.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #66 –
Quote
why winamp is adding id3 tags to mpeg-2 aac files it rips.


I wished we had seen the end of that tag, and here it is again, resurrected. Why not use the APE2 tag?

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #67 –
Talk a bit more about Unicode ...

Foobar 7 Unicode support is nearly perfect, now I'm changing all my collections with the Foobar metatag + MP3gain (replaygain tag still not widely supported).

All I can tell is Japanese and Chinese support is working great! And I see someone using Russian and Hebrew also no problem, anyone can try Thai or Korean?

Surely Foobar is better than Winamp ... now.
Hong Kong - International Joke Center (after 1997-06-30)

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #68 –
Quote
Quote
Is it guaranteed that no compliant decoder will attempt to decode the tag?

All of the players we have tried have decoded correctly. (Including the goodmans and sony hardware decoders, or so i'm told)

"It violates the standard but everyone seems to tolerate it so let's use it."
How typical for Winamp people.

Regarding unicode - I don't think it's even worth the trouble to argue with them, like I said above, they can't have proper unicode support without killing some "critical" features like compatibility with old plugins; apparently trying to discuss the problem on their irc channel only gets you nazi-flamed by regulars (*cough* THEMike). Nullsoft has made so many bad design decisions that it isn't even funny anymore, now that Winamp3 development is suspended, I doubt if you will see working unicode support anytime soon.
Their developers not quite understanding how unicode works is another story.
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #69 –
Winamp is/was blocking Ogg Vorbis files with ID3v2 applied and nobody was saying: "Well, EAC writes it, so we should use it too" because developers recommended using Vorbis comments.

Now, we have situation that Easy CD Creator writes ID3 tags at AAC files (as I heard), so Winamp has decided to go for that "standard", instead of using what developers (Ivan, menno and others) recommend.

Perhaps I am missing some obvious logic?

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #71 –
Quote
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=...threadid=151019

These guys are just brilliant...

Quote
Given that winamp doesn't yet have ripping, except in a leaked alpha build, people who use other players for quality/internationalisation/other anal reason* must already have a ripping solution that suits them, QED.


So, the official line from Nullsoft is that a desire for quality is an anal reason to use an audio player?!?!?

LOL!   

That's it!  I'm switching to foobar2000 this weekend!  And I mean it this time!


...Also, Winamp uses ID3 blocking on Vorbis files?  That explains why Tag&Rename with "Ogg" selected gave me trouble with files whose (Vorbis) tags I modified (in the interest of speed/ease) with Winamp.  Ugh!


Edit:  OMG!!! ...

Quote
As for characters, you shouldn't need more than lower ascii. Upper ascii is for dodgy foreign types. If you get into needing unicode to represent your language, I suggest f*cking off, and learning English.

OK, I think I've been fooled again...This guy cannot possibly be a moderator of that forum.  You cannot possibly have any level of authority in the enforcement of civil relations if you also have that kind of flagrantly prejudiced attitude.  Is this attitude shared by Winamp developers (not former developers like Peter, who has obviously moved on to better things)?  That would certainly explain why Winamp has these problems with international character sets.

[rant]
"Dodgy foreign types"?  Foreign to...what?  US?  Poland?  Brazil?  China?  Everybody's a foreigner to someplace in the world.

And how does "learning English" solve the international-character-display issue?  I'm American, English is my only language, and yet I have a need for proper display of song titles like Jóga, Ænima, Dôme and Café Europa.

Hmmm...Does that make me anal?  Here's what it will make me...a foobar2000 convert.
[/rant]
 

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #72 –
Quote
That's it!  I'm switching to foobar2000 this weekend!  And I mean it this time!

Believe me, you'll never look back 

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #73 –
Quote
So, the official line from Nullsoft is that a desire for quality is an anal reason to use an audio player?!?!?

Keep in mind that THEMike is not a Nullsoft spokesman, he's just a moronic moderator.

So, don't confuse what he says and Nullsoft's official line.

Winamp 5 Alpha 1! :o

Reply #74 –
hey, its been a while since i have been with winamp. I did suppose that they may be a bit arrogant. But........ i didn't know they became that power-mad.

Thank you, winamp-crew - now the only thing i have to do is to point everyone of my friends who use winamp to exactly this thread in the winamp forums... it has never been that easy for me to explain to winamp-users, why they should stop using that player.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.