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Topic: C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me? (Read 11120 times) previous topic - next topic
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C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

I will be ripping about 300 CDs to MP3 using EAC , Lame, and AccurateRip. 

My Plextor drive supports C2 error checking but my Benq DW1650 does not.  Am I really missing out on something in my rips if one of my two ripping drives lacks C2 error checking?  Will the quality of the rips from my Benq drive be bad relative to the Plextor or am I worried about nothing? 

I will be ripping from both drives simultaneously.

Thanks,
CxP

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #2 –
Obviously, if my drive can't do C2 then EAC won't be able to enable C2 checking.

What am I missing if I can't do C2 with one of my drives?  Will the quality of my encoded rips suffer noticeably?

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #3 –
Did you set EAC to use C2 error pointers? This setting can be enabled / disabled for each drive. Even for Plextor, I wouldn't recommend enabling the C2 option. You could either use burst mode with test & copy or secure mode with C2 disabled.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Sebastian Mares on
Did you set EAC to use C2 error pointers? This setting can be enabled / disabled for each drive. Even for Plextor, I wouldn't recommend enabling the C2 option. You could either use burst mode with test & copy or secure mode with C2 disabled.


Thanks for your feedback.  I CAN enable C2 for the Plextor but I cannot for the BenQ because it does not do C2 checking.    So, you'd say Secure Mode with C2 would be overkill anyway.....?  I can just use Secure mode and there will be no reduction in quality w/o C2?

Thanks,
Kevin

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #5 –
I know you can enable it for the Plextor. You can also enable it for the BenQ, but it would lead to problems since errors would slip through. What I wanted to say is that no drive (at least AFAIK) reports C2 errors with 100% accuracy. Therefore, in some cases, even your Plextor might say that no error occurred when in fact one did occur.

Personally, I encode CD images using the secure mode and have the C2 option disabled for all drives (even for my Plextor PX-755A). When encoding single tracks, I use burst mode with test & copy and then compare the two CRCs. If errors occurred, I switch to secure mode without C2 for the respective tracks.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Sebastian Mares on
I know you can enable it for the Plextor. You can also enable it for the BenQ, but it would lead to problems since errors would slip through. What I wanted to say is that no drive (at least AFAIK) reports C2 errors with 100% accuracy. Therefore, in some cases, even your Plextor might say that no error occurred when in fact one did occur.

Personally, I encode CD images using the secure mode and have the C2 option disabled for all drives (even for my Plextor PX-755A). When encoding single tracks, I use burst mode with test & copy and then compare the two CRCs. If errors occurred, I switch to secure mode without C2 for the respective tracks.


Thanks.  So Burst Mode with Test & Copy is faster than Secure Mode?

Thanks,
Kevin

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: ClockerXP on
Thanks.  So Burst Mode with Test & Copy is faster than Secure Mode?


Yes.  Also... less stress on the drive.  Here's a good thread on the subject:
http://www.digital-inn.de/exact-audio-copy...ive-answer.html


and another...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....=29449&st=0

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: ClockerXP on
Thanks.  So Burst Mode with Test & Copy is faster than Secure Mode?

It depends.  Though I still recommend test & copy even with secure mode if you're paranoid about errors, unless you're using secure mode without C2 and get 100% quality and the cache setting is properly configured.

I have a PX-716A and use the -usefua switch with C2 which gives about the same speed in secure mode as it does in burst mode.  Needless to say, I use this with test & copy.  For discs without serious damage/defects you're practically guaranteed a better rip using secure mode with or without C2 then you are using burst mode since the latter lets every error slip through.  Every once in a while -usefua or C2 slips up (I'm not sure which at any given time) but this gets detected with test & copy.  C2 isn't perfect for this drive but it is damn good especially considering that PlexTools does a much better job than EAC and relies solely on C2.

I see that you're also using AccurateRip.  If it says a rip was accurate, you don't need to worry about the settings.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #9 –
Thanks a lot guys.  I will check out those threads too!

So here's what I think your recommended settings are (I'll be using EAC & AccurateRip). 

For my Plextor PX-716A:
Use C2 with -usefua switch in Secure Mode & Test/Copy since this drive is relatively  fast in Secure Mode with that switch turned on.  How do you set that switch in EAC?

For my BenQ DW1650:
Burst Mode with Test & Copy

I will be ripping/encoding with both drives simultaneously.  I have an AMD X2 CPU.  See any problems with that?

Thanks again...I really appreciate the help I'm getting from you guys.  :-)

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #10 –
When you run eac you just add -usefua afterwards.

If you have a shortcut to the program, just change the target from:
"C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\EAC.exe"
to:
"C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\EAC.exe" -usefua

EDIT:  And you uncheck "Drive caches audio data" in the secure mode options for the PX-716A.

Let me warn you that this setting is pretty heavily debated as is using C2, though I don't think anyone's going to argue using these with test and copy and/or AccurateRip.

With AccurateRip, you don't even need to use test & copy if it says the rip is accurate.

Instead of test & copy (F6), I'll usually do them individually if I think the disc will be in the database.  In this case I'll use F5, check AccurateRip and then take corrective action for tracks that aren't deemed accurate.  Corrective action usually involves anything from cleaning and/or fiddling with speed and secure mode settings to using different drives and ripping software.  If I think that AccurateRip might be comparing against a different pressing or the confidence is low (less than 5 or so) I'll probably test the track (F8) without doing anything else (EDIT: if the CRCs match).

Also, I do like burst mode with test & copy as well, but with -usefua and C2 there is no point in using burst with my PX-716A.  I do use it with other drives, however.

As far as simultaneous rips, settings might affect accuracy.  IOW, burst rips might get compromised due to interruptions from heavy drive activity.  I'm interested in hearing what others have to say about it.  I usually rip one disc at a time though I do encode two tracks at a time.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Sebastian Mares on
I think this happens only when the drive does not support Accurate Stream.

Every once in a while I see a hiccup on my system when doing a burst rip (as well as using -usefua and C2 with the PX-716A supposing it might be the for the same reason).  All of my drives have Accurate Stream (careful using the word "support", it can be misleading).

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: greynol on
EDIT:  And you uncheck "Drive caches audio data" in the secure mode options for the PX-716A.

Let me warn you that this setting is pretty heavily debated as is using C2, though I don't think anyone's going to argue using these with test and copy and/or AccurateRip.


I've noticed that unchecking the Drive Caches Audio Data' box makes the Plextor rip a lot faster.  Have you ever had any problems with the quality of your rips using this setting?

Thanks,
C

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #14 –
Check a few posts back, you'll see I mentioned that I'll get an occasional error using the combination of C2 with -usefua and the cache setting unchecked with discs that are in perfect condition.  These errors (hopefully all of them) are detected through the use of test & copy and/or AccurateRip.

Without the -usefua switch, I don't recommend unchecking the cache setting with a PX-716A.  This configuration is not secure.

I don't have a Benq DW1650.  For all I know it could be more accurate in secure mode than a PX-716A.  I say this because it seems like you may have gotten the impression that I'm only recommending burst mode for this drive, which isn't the case.  If you find a disc that the Plextor can't rip correctly, it's worth trying the Benq.

If you can, submit the features of your Benq to this thread:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=32151
I noticed there is no entry for it.

You might also want to take a look at this thread in order to determine more infomation about your drive:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=45996

EDIT:
I also want to say that Sebastian's advice is very sound.  If you're ripping images, you'll save yourself a lot of time and trouble by using secure mode.  If you're ripping separate tracks, burst test & copy followed by secure mode without C2 and the appropriate cache setting for tracks with errors will give you good results.  In the case of my suggestion regarding your PX-716A, instead of burst I go with the options that allow quick ripping in secure mode.  If I get a track with errors I'll try it again either without C2, at a slower speed or combination of these things.  IIRC, for Sebastian's PX-755A, -usefua might not work.  I'm guessing this is why he uses burst mode to save time while ripping individual tracks.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #15 –
Yay.  For some reason, EAC is now automatically connecting to freedb for me upon CD insertion.  Maybe I just needed to reboot for some reason but that's working now.

I'm ripping all the tracks from my CDs and encoding them to MP3 via Lame.  I assume when you say ripping 'images', you mean ripping an image of a whole CD to a single file for archiving (like an ISO file or something) but not ripping all the tracks individually (so they can be encoded).

My Plextor 716A is pretty fast with Secure Mode & -usefua (and Drive caches turned off) but it seems faster when using Burst Mode with Test/Copy.

So, since I AM using Accurate Rip I guess I should just use Burst mode with Test/Copy on both my drives and if EAC or AccurateRip shows any problem with a track or CD then re-rip/encode the files for that CD/track using plain old Secure Mode.   

All the CD's I'm ripping tracks from are in really good shape (almost brand new).  Does the plan above sound like the most reasonable approach given the fact that I have over 200 CDs to do?

Thanks again for everybody's help,
CxP

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: ClockerXP on
Yay.  For some reason, EAC is now automatically connecting to freedb for me upon CD insertion.
There is a setting for this in the General tab of the EAC options: "On unknown CDs".  I have it unchecked.

Quote from: ClockerXP on
I assume when you say ripping 'images', you mean ripping an image of a whole CD to a single file for archiving (like an ISO file or something) but not ripping all the tracks individually (so they can be encoded).
Yes.

Quote from: ClockerXP on
My Plextor 716A is pretty fast with Secure Mode & -usefua (and Drive caches turned off) but it seems faster when using Burst Mode with Test/Copy.
And this is with the C2 option selected?  For me if burst is faster it is only slightly.

Quote from: ClockerXP on
All the CD's I'm ripping tracks from are in really good shape (almost brand new).  Does the plan above sound like the most reasonable approach given the fact that I have over 200 CDs to do?
I think this sounds reasonable.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #17 –
What is that -usefua parameter in EAC for and is it only available in the newest version?

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #18 –
You can find out quite a bit by searching HA or google.

This thread is typical of what you might find:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=41028

I will mention right off the bat that using EAC's cache test is not a good way to determine if the switch works properly.

As far as when it was implemented, I don't know but I use it with V0.95pb5.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #19 –
Thank you greynol, for the link to that thread.
I did search Google before posting using the search term -usefua but it returned no results, I however did forgot to search here on HA.org.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #20 –
You should've searched for "usefua" with Google, not "-usefua", otherwise Google will not search for "usefua" because the "-" stands for "NOT". "usefua" delivers 175 results.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Sebastian Mares on
You should've searched for "usefua" with Google, not "-usefua", otherwise Google will not search for "usefua" because the "-" stands for "NOT". "usefua" delivers 175 results.

Learn something new everyday!

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #23 –
Searching google for "-usefua" (including the quotes) will also work.

I was considering giving the JeanLuc's link but didn't since it was already in the link I gave you.

spath's Cache explorer tool tests for it.  I'm not sure if his test translates into EAC's ability to use it correctly.

C2 Error Correction - Is it important to me?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: greynol on
spath's Cache explorer tool tests for it.  I'm not sure if his test translates into EAC's ability to use it correctly.


Perhaps there are some differences in -usefua ability regarding different mainboard chipsets ... although all of them should be compatible on a basic level like MMC.

But the nVidia nForce 2 that is working my system definitely has some issues ... using the nVidia IDE driver instead of the M$ standard one, Plextools Pro e.g. won't recognize my Plextor drives
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper