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Topic: Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags? (Read 6740 times) previous topic - next topic
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Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Hi, hope this doesn't sound too dumb. I'm new here so pls be tolerant!

I did a large amount of tag editing of my iTunes MP3 library yesterday, copying Artist field to Albumartist and stuff like that. When it was over I found that one of my iTunes smart playlists had "lost" 800 files. It turned out they weren't lost, but that vast amounts of metadata was missing from the files, making them no longer eligible for the playlist. The fields which were affected were grouping, composer, comments, track#, disc# and artwork - none of which I'd tampered with. Other data, like song titles, were corrupted and had lost letters off the end of them.

I just remembered that during the long tagging job, I was bulk editing thousands of songs and deleted what appeared to be a redundant 2nd Comments field, called Comments IDv1 or something like that.

I'm now using a library back-up I created halfway through the job on a 2nd computer and found something really odd. While iTunes seems intact and the 800 songs are all showing up in the playlist, when I open Tag&Rename editor, the tags are all missing again - so tags which show up in iTunes do NOT show up outside of it.

The tags must still be in the files somewhere so is there any way I can rectify my careless mistake? I know this must sound stupid to some of you but it will be a blessing for me if I can correct this. Otherwise I'm in a spot of bother and it will take me some weeks at least to put things right.
many thanks

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #1 –
Totally guessing because I'm not an iTunes user, but the symptoms of what data is missing and what you've got left makes it sound like you no longer have ID3v2 tags (robust tag type at the beginning of the file) and now have only ID3v1 tags (very limited type at the end of the file).

If on Windows, maybe check with mp3Tag to be sure.

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: mjb2006 on
Totally guessing because I'm not an iTunes user, but the symptoms of what data is missing and what you've got left makes it sound like you no longer have ID3v2 tags (robust tag type at the beginning of the file) and now have only ID3v1 tags (very limited type at the end of the file).

If on Windows, maybe check with mp3Tag to be sure.

thanks for your reply. I always wondered what the difference was betwen v1 and v2 tags - is there somewhere I can elarn in plain English about different versions of MP3 tags?

incidentally, I've just the last back-up of my iTunes library (made durign the long re-tagging job) and it still shows the files as having v2 tags

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #3 –
Wikipedia has an ID3 article, but I don't know if it qualifies as being written in plain English.

The short form is that ID3v1 supports only a few fields and has a strict limit on the number of characters in each field, e.g. if the title of your song is more than 30 characters, you can only store the first 30. ID3v2 is pretty much unrelated and not only supports more types of information, but it supports tags of variable length, which allows it to hold longer artist, album, and track names than ID3v1 can. It can also display text in languages other than English, which ID3v1 is unable to do.

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Aleron Ives on
Wikipedia has an ID3 article, but I don't know if it qualifies as being written in plain English.

The short form is that ID3v1 supports only a few fields and has a strict limit on the number of characters in each field, e.g. if the title of your song is more than 30 characters, you can only store the first 30. ID3v2 is pretty much unrelated and not only supports more types of information, but it supports tags of variable length, which allows it to hold longer artist, album, and track names than ID3v1 can. It can also display text in languages other than English, which ID3v1 is unable to do.


thanks very much - your reply certainly qualifies as being written in plain English! I'll go to that Wiki link in a moment...

perhaps you could also tell me: once the music files are in my system, am I able to update MP3s with ID3v1 tags to ID3v2 ?
or is it just a matter of getting into a tag editing program and changing the tags manually?
in fact most of my MP3s say "ID3v1 ID3v2.3" ... and some also have "APEv2" written on the end ... even the ones which appear to be corrupted after my recent blunder

thanks again, much appreciated

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #5 –
a good tool is mp3tag
http://download.mp3tag.de/mp3tagv263setup.exe

You can set the mp3tag program settings to read id3v1, id3v2, ape, remove ID3v1 and APE, but to only WRITE ID3v2.3.  Load up all your files in mp3tag, then save them (click the save icon, upper left). Then it will have written ID3v2.3 to all files. Then click the red X next to save icon. This will remove the ID3v1 and ape tags. Then you'll be left with all your original tag info inside ID3v2.3 tags.

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #6 –
thanks very much GaryM. I am using MP3tag 2.62. the only place with all the options you suggested are in the Mpeg sub-folder of options. Anyway I tried what you suggested there and in the Ape sub-folder .. finally, when I pressed the X button next to the save button, it wiped all the tags (which is what I'd expect it to do) - where am I going wrong? btw, I undid both operations which wiped the tags so I'm back where I started.

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #7 –
ok quick update: I just repeated the process, made some progress but still serious issues
1) yes-  the tag column in MP3tag now says only ID3v2.3
2) some columns are still empty in MP3tag - but visible in iTunes (e.g. composer, BPM, disc# genre, grouping), so I haven't lost them completely but they're still not behaving properly

3) whenever I've used iTunes before, 1 quick way to refresh a bunch of files has been to highlight them, then right-click and change the rating - all the updated tags are corrected
BUT now, nothing happens - I have to individually right-click and getinfo in order to update the tags - anyone know how to refresh in bulk?

thanks again for the suggestions.

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #8 –
It is possible mp3Tag is just not showing you everything due to the way it's set up. By default it only has certain columns defined, and only certain fields visible in the tag panel. You can add specific fields in both places, but I think the only way to just automatically see every field is to use the Extended Tags view (Alt+T or View > Extended Tags).

I love mp3Tag for its tag and filename conversion and string replacement features, but when it comes to just seeing all the fields and manually modifying their data, foobar2000 is generally easier to work with.

No idea re: your iTunes problem. It might help if we could see an example of a file that works well for you and one that doesn't. We could look at each one in a hex editor and see what the difference is. If you could make the audio be silent or public domain, you could post a link to it here, but if it's copyrighted, don't put the forum at risk.

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #9 –
Since you are saying that you see some tags in iTunes, that you don't see in the files themselves with a tag editor, I believe that what you are seeing is the consequence of the internal iTunes library.

I haven't used the program for some years, but... wasn't there an option to "write tags to file" or "synchronize tags" or something?

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #10 –
thanks folks but this isn't looking good.
It turns out that for some songs I can most/all of the tags in MP3tag but not iTunes
for some other songs, I can see most/all of the tags in iTunes but not in MP3tag
and sometimes there are fields missing in both programs

it's bizarre cos I didn't touch the missing fields when I retagged my songs.
I'd better not upload anything cos it's copyrighted

if someone can suggest something, I'd appreciate it. If not, I'll start re-downloading from my back-up in the clouds and then sit tight and wait for it

thanks heaps again,

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #11 –
A few more thoughts:

1. When you edit tags, iTunes won't show the newly added tag info/edits until your force itunes to reread the tags and update the itunes internal library info.  This is NOT automatic in itunes. There are several ways to do this but I've forgotten as I don't use itunes for much anymore.  But I know for sure that if you delete the file from your itunes library (but not delete the file itself), then re-add the file to the itunes library, it will then show the new tag info. It may be that just playing the file or opening the file properties in itunes will also update....can't recall.  In any case, you should test this with one of the files where you are seeing correct info in mp3tag but not in itunes.

2. In mp3tag, the way to see all the tags in a file is to right click on a file (or files), then choose "extended tags" then you'll see all the tags listed that are in that group of files. If it says "keep" that means there are different values within the field (i.e., title field).

3. In mp3tag are you sure you have the following settings in the tag settings:
TOOLS > OPTIONS > TAGS > mpeg

READ:  tick all 3, ID3v1, ID3v2, APE

WRITE: tick only ID3v2. Then under this, tick: ID3v2.3 UTF-16

REMOVE: tick ID3v1 and APE.  Leave ID3v1 unticked.

Once those are set, when open a file in mp3tag and look at extended tags, you'll see all possible info in those files, no matter what the source of the tags (id3v1, v2 or ape). Then click the "save" icon in mp3tag menu to make sure it reads and writes all this info, then click the red X next to save icon to "remove" the ID3v1 and APE tags.  Not necessary, but I always click the save icon one more time after I've done the remove step.

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: garym on
A few more thoughts:

1. When you edit tags, iTunes won't show the newly added tag info/edits until your force itunes to reread the tags and update the itunes internal library info.  This is NOT automatic in itunes. There are several ways to do this but I've forgotten as I don't use itunes for much anymore.  But I know for sure that if you delete the file from your itunes library (but not delete the file itself), then re-add the file to the itunes library, it will then show the new tag info. It may be that just playing the file or opening the file properties in itunes will also update....can't recall.  In any case, you should test this with one of the files where you are seeing correct info in mp3tag but not in itunes.

2. In mp3tag, the way to see all the tags in a file is to right click on a file (or files), then choose "extended tags" then you'll see all the tags listed that are in that group of files. If it says "keep" that means there are different values within the field (i.e., title field).

3. In mp3tag are you sure you have the following settings in the tag settings:
TOOLS > OPTIONS > TAGS > mpeg

READ:  tick all 3, ID3v1, ID3v2, APE

WRITE: tick only ID3v2. Then under this, tick: ID3v2.3 UTF-16

REMOVE: tick ID3v1 and APE.  Leave ID3v1 unticked.

Once those are set, when open a file in mp3tag and look at extended tags, you'll see all possible info in those files, no matter what the source of the tags (id3v1, v2 or ape). Then click the "save" icon in mp3tag menu to make sure it reads and writes all this info, then click the red X next to save icon to "remove" the ID3v1 and APE tags.  Not necessary, but I always click the save icon one more time after I've done the remove step.

thanks, re
1) yes, I;'ve been using uTunes for some years - one way to see the new tags is to right click and get info - but you have to do that one by one. To see new tags for bulk files, I usually right click and change the rating. That's a great tool - but since my re-tagging blunder that 2nd option is no longer working
2) thanks, I';m familiar with MP3tag and seeing the extended tags
3) yes, I did try this after someone (you?) suggested it earlier on. It did seem to leave the files with only ID3v2.3 tags - but sadly, I'm still left with heaps of files whose tags either don;t show up in MP3tag or don't show up in iTunes. Just strange - no way did I touch any of those fields which are now missing but I did delete a 2nd comments field which I thought was of no use but probably was
anyway, thanks for your help folks. If I don't fix it by Tuesday I'll start downloading my library from the clouds...

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: pomozki on
Quote from: garym on
A few more thoughts:

1. When you edit tags, iTunes won't show the newly added tag info/edits until your force itunes to reread the tags and update the itunes internal library info.  This is NOT automatic in itunes. There are several ways to do this but I've forgotten as I don't use itunes for much anymore.  But I know for sure that if you delete the file from your itunes library (but not delete the file itself), then re-add the file to the itunes library, it will then show the new tag info. It may be that just playing the file or opening the file properties in itunes will also update....can't recall.  In any case, you should test this with one of the files where you are seeing correct info in mp3tag but not in itunes.

2. In mp3tag, the way to see all the tags in a file is to right click on a file (or files), then choose "extended tags" then you'll see all the tags listed that are in that group of files. If it says "keep" that means there are different values within the field (i.e., title field).

3. In mp3tag are you sure you have the following settings in the tag settings:
TOOLS > OPTIONS > TAGS > mpeg

READ:  tick all 3, ID3v1, ID3v2, APE

WRITE: tick only ID3v2. Then under this, tick: ID3v2.3 UTF-16

REMOVE: tick ID3v1 and APE.  Leave ID3v1 unticked.

Once those are set, when open a file in mp3tag and look at extended tags, you'll see all possible info in those files, no matter what the source of the tags (id3v1, v2 or ape). Then click the "save" icon in mp3tag menu to make sure it reads and writes all this info, then click the red X next to save icon to "remove" the ID3v1 and APE tags.  Not necessary, but I always click the save icon one more time after I've done the remove step.

thanks, re
1) yes, I;'ve been using uTunes for some years - one way to see the new tags is to right click and get info - but you have to do that one by one. To see new tags for bulk files, I usually right click and change the rating. That's a great tool - but since my re-tagging blunder that 2nd option is no longer working
2) thanks, I';m familiar with MP3tag and seeing the extended tags
3) yes, I did try this after someone (you?) suggested it earlier on. It did seem to leave the files with only ID3v2.3 tags - but sadly, I'm still left with heaps of files whose tags either don;t show up in MP3tag or don't show up in iTunes. Just strange - no way did I touch any of those fields which are now missing but I did delete a 2nd comments field which I thought was of no use but probably was
anyway, thanks for your help folks. If I don't fix it by Tuesday I'll start downloading my library from the clouds...


ok.  once downloaded from the cloud I'd also suggest another HDD locally as backup too. I have OCD re: backups. I have at least 6 different HD backups stored at 3 different locations plus I have a cloud backup.
 

Have I caused irreversible damage to my MP3 tags?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: garym on
Quote from: pomozki on
Quote from: garym on
A few more thoughts:

1. When you edit tags, iTunes won't show the newly added tag info/edits until your force itunes to reread the tags and update the itunes internal library info.  This is NOT automatic in itunes. There are several ways to do this but I've forgotten as I don't use itunes for much anymore.  But I know for sure that if you delete the file from your itunes library (but not delete the file itself), then re-add the file to the itunes library, it will then show the new tag info. It may be that just playing the file or opening the file properties in itunes will also update....can't recall.  In any case, you should test this with one of the files where you are seeing correct info in mp3tag but not in itunes.

2. In mp3tag, the way to see all the tags in a file is to right click on a file (or files), then choose "extended tags" then you'll see all the tags listed that are in that group of files. If it says "keep" that means there are different values within the field (i.e., title field).

3. In mp3tag are you sure you have the following settings in the tag settings:
TOOLS > OPTIONS > TAGS > mpeg

READ:  tick all 3, ID3v1, ID3v2, APE

WRITE: tick only ID3v2. Then under this, tick: ID3v2.3 UTF-16

REMOVE: tick ID3v1 and APE.  Leave ID3v1 unticked.

Once those are set, when open a file in mp3tag and look at extended tags, you'll see all possible info in those files, no matter what the source of the tags (id3v1, v2 or ape). Then click the "save" icon in mp3tag menu to make sure it reads and writes all this info, then click the red X next to save icon to "remove" the ID3v1 and APE tags.  Not necessary, but I always click the save icon one more time after I've done the remove step.

thanks, re
1) yes, I;'ve been using uTunes for some years - one way to see the new tags is to right click and get info - but you have to do that one by one. To see new tags for bulk files, I usually right click and change the rating. That's a great tool - but since my re-tagging blunder that 2nd option is no longer working
2) thanks, I';m familiar with MP3tag and seeing the extended tags
3) yes, I did try this after someone (you?) suggested it earlier on. It did seem to leave the files with only ID3v2.3 tags - but sadly, I'm still left with heaps of files whose tags either don;t show up in MP3tag or don't show up in iTunes. Just strange - no way did I touch any of those fields which are now missing but I did delete a 2nd comments field which I thought was of no use but probably was
anyway, thanks for your help folks. If I don't fix it by Tuesday I'll start downloading my library from the clouds...


ok.  once downloaded from the cloud I'd also suggest another HDD locally as backup too. I have OCD re: backups. I have at least 6 different HD backups stored at 3 different locations plus I have a cloud backup.

haha you're totally correct, here's the state of my back-ups...
1) 1st external HDD, updated during re-tagging ... multi files corrupted, don't know how to fix
2) 2nd HDD backed up 2 weeks before problems - it would take several weeks to redo all that work (hard to know what I've done)
3) 3rd HDD back-up - was empty. I had to clear it and forgot to redo it, Grrr!
4) 2nd laptop - last back-up was a month or more ago, not worth trying to use it
5) cloud back-up ... last updated the day before the retagging. My best chance but it'll take 3 weeks or so to download

I've been backing up this library every day for 3 years.  I've always had at least 1 HDD back-up up to date.
Just goes to show - the worst thing can happen at the worst possible time.
thanks for all your help