Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked (Read 6795 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

In order not to disrupt mzil's post I made another topic here.
Be careful when performing listening tests with such hardware.

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,110058.0.html

highlights:
[1] DACs can silently change the sound characteristics when different input formats are detected.
[2] Some audio equipment are weak in handling intermodulation distortion generated from hi-res materials.

All in all, we can only help someone if they are cheated by others, but we can do nothing if they decided to cheat themselves (like fabricated listening test result).

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #1 –
Thanks.
In the case of the AVS/AIX files they had been downsampled and then upsampled by AIX through a Sonic Solutions SRC.
As for the 2L material your point is now taken. Thanks again.

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #2 –
Look, for an "audiophile" product to have street cred, like being "revealing", it is important that it possess a "sound" of its own. Relying on psychological susceptibility of audiophiles works exceptionally well, but actually physically changing the soundfield is even better yet.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #3 –
Are you referring to NOS and "apodizing" DAC's?

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #4 –
Quote from: theriverlethe on
Are you referring to NOS and "apodizing" DAC's?

It may even be as simple as an amplifier with a subtle built-in EQ curve.

Or in the case of zero-feedback designs, ridiculously low damping factor leading to uncontrolled and bloated bass response.

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #5 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Quote from: theriverlethe on
Are you referring to NOS and "apodizing" DAC's?

It may even be as simple as an amplifier with a subtle built-in EQ curve.

Or in the case of zero-feedback designs, ridiculously low damping factor leading to uncontrolled and bloated bass response.

Wouldn't this be pretty obvious in FR measurements and output impedanec?

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #9 –
Quote from: theriverlethe on
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Quote from: theriverlethe on
Wouldn't this be pretty obvious in FR measurements and output impedanec?

Yes, of course.

Can you give an example of one of these designs?

These, for instance:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-v-1-power-amplifier-measurements
http://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-v-3-power-amplifier-measurements

Will these relatively small differences be audible? Maybe, maybe not, but I don't have access to any such products, so I cannot test it.

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #10 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Quote from: theriverlethe on
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Quote from: theriverlethe on
Wouldn't this be pretty obvious in FR measurements and output impedanec?

Yes, of course.

Can you give an example of one of these designs?

These, for instance:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-v-1-power-amplifier-measurements
http://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-v-3-power-amplifier-measurements

Will these relatively small differences be audible? Maybe, maybe not, but I don't have access to any such products, so I cannot test it.

Ouch...  You'd think for $7500 they could offer a damping factor knob, or even tone controls.

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #13 –
Quote from: bennetng on
Quote from: Wombat on
Pono made for the benefits of high samplerates and its 44.1 performance: http://archimago.blogspot.de/2015/08/measurements-ponoplayer-another-mans.html
But no one cares about their crabby Realtek and VIA onboard codec can output ruler straight FR in 44k mode.

Might have something to do with the -80 to -85dB noise floor...

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #14 –
Quote from: bennetng on
But no one cares about their crabby Realtek and VIA onboard codec can output ruler straight FR in 44k mode.
"Sterile". "Lo($)-Fi". We can't measure everything. Science don't know everything. Let's be a little more "open minded" and welcoming about this shall we?
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #15 –
Quote from: theriverlethe on
Quote from: bennetng on
Quote from: Wombat on
Pono made for the benefits of high samplerates and its 44.1 performance: http://archimago.blogspot.de/2015/08/measurements-ponoplayer-another-mans.html
But no one cares about their crabby Realtek and VIA onboard codec can output ruler straight FR in 44k mode.

Might have something to do with the -80 to -85dB noise floor...
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,104556.0.html
95+

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #16 –
Quote from: bennetng on
Quote from: theriverlethe on
Quote from: bennetng on
Quote from: Wombat on
Pono made for the benefits of high samplerates and its 44.1 performance: http://archimago.blogspot.de/2015/08/measurements-ponoplayer-another-mans.html
But no one cares about their crabby Realtek and VIA onboard codec can output ruler straight FR in 44k mode.

Might have something to do with the -80 to -85dB noise floor...
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,104556.0.html
95+

I was speaking from my own experience and measurements.  I could upgrade to a better PSU and motherboard, or just spend $50 on an outboard optical DAC...

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #17 –
I think it's not been a secret that DACs can operate differently at different sampling rates, e.g. that they perform better at 48 kHz or multiples. They can also switch to different filters. They can even produce easily audible tells, such as outputting some noise or pause when switching sampling rate.

Regarding 2) we definitely need more measurements to see how devices deal with >>20 kHz.
"I hear it when I see it."

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #18 –
For the Pono measurements i linked above it is the same early roll off for 48kHz and 44.1kHz. You need Neil Young approved samplerates to archive a typical flat frequency response in the 20-20k band.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Wombat on
You need Neil Young approved samplerates to archive a typical flat frequency response in the 20-20k band.
We need extension to at least 100k for bonehead conduction and true fidelity. That's a well known fact.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Some audiophile hardware are either botched or crooked

Reply #20 –
Quote from: ajinfla on
We need extension to at least 100k for bonehead conduction and true fidelity. That's a well known fact.
See, it is a good thing new members can post whatever they want. Even you learned these new things.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!