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Topic: Small room production setup (Read 4751 times) previous topic - next topic
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Small room production setup

Greetings dudes,

I've run into some money, and no it didn't hurt...  It was glorious.

I've been wanting to do some sound production work and more recently, some radio/video podcasts.

I think i'll need:
Sound interface - £150-200 odd
Mic - £50-100 -  58?
Mixer - (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-802-Input-Bus-Mixer/dp/B000J5XS3C/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1416523802&sr=1-1&keywords=MIXER) ???

What i'm wondering is how will it all go together?

At this moment in time I'm working with a PC tower and 2.0 Microlab speakers, soon to be upgraded to something more robust like Alesis M1's or KRK's.

What would be the signal route through all this equipment?

Is there anything else I require?

Thanks,
Frank J.

Small room production setup

Reply #1
You may not need an audio interface and a mixer.    A multi-input interface is more flexible than a USB mixer, because most of these small mixers mix-down to stereo for the USB output.  With a multi-input interface you record multi-track and mix later in software.

If you haven't decided on an interface, start with places like Musician's Friend that sell musical instruments and related equipment, rather than computer stores or Amazon.

Quote
Mic - £50-100 - 58?
Are you talking about a Shure SM58?  You can't go wrong with an SM57/58, which is the most popular microphone of all time!

But, the most common type of microphone for "studio recording" is a "Large Diaphragm Condenser".  (The SM58 is a dynamic mic.)

For things like podcasts & voice-over work a "studio style" USB mic (AKA a "podcast mic) can be super-handy.  The Blue Yeti is an example with some nice features.  (I don't own this mic).  The main downsides to a USB mic are that you can generally use only one at a time so you can't record in stereo or multitrack, and you can't use them with a mixer or PA system.  (The Blue Yeti does have a stereo mode.)

Quote
Alesis M1
I'm an old-school guy, and I think a woofer should be at least 8-inches.  (Or, you can use a subwoofer.)

You didn't mention software.  Audacity is a popular FREE audio editor.  I'm a long-time GoldWave user.  There are lots more higher-end options.  REAPER is a popular DAW among hobbyists if you want to get into some "serious" mixing & production.

You might also consider some soundproofing or other acoustic treatment.

Small room production setup

Reply #2
You may not need an audio interface and a mixer.    A multi-input interface is more flexible than a USB mixer, because most of these small mixers mix-down to stereo for the USB output.  With a multi-input interface you record multi-track and mix later in software.

If you haven't decided on an interface, start with places like Musician's Friend that sell musical instruments and related equipment, rather than computer stores or Amazon.

Quote
Mic - £50-100 - 58?
Are you talking about a Shure SM58?  You can't go wrong with an SM57/58, which is the most popular microphone of all time!

But, the most common type of microphone for "studio recording" is a "Large Diaphragm Condenser".  (The SM58 is a dynamic mic.)

Quote
Alesis M1
I'm an old-school guy, and I think a woofer should be at least 8-inches.  (Or, you can use a subwoofer.)

You didn't mention software.  Audacity is a popular FREE audio editor.  I'm a long-time GoldWave user.  There are lots more higher-end options.  REAPER is a popular DAW among hobbyists if you want to get into some "serious" mixing & production.

You might also consider some soundproofing or other acoustic treatment.


Appreciate the info bro!

Yeah I think i'll start off with a sole interface and then advance to a mixer/inference combo if I feel the need

If I want some passive speakers and needed to buy an amp, this would plug into the interface yes?

Yeah the SM58!  Industry standard I believe

Software wise the jury's out. Maybe Ableton, I haven't read up on DAW's in ages

Cheers,
FrankJ

Small room production setup

Reply #3
You'll get excellent advice from the posters here at HA. But if you want a general brief overview this might be helpful.

I agree with Doug on mic choice.
As for passive stereo speakers - yes, mine are connected to the line out of my soundcard.
So it goes Soundcard > Switch Box > (Int Amp + Passive Speakers) OR (Monitors).

C.
PC = TAK + LossyWAV  ::  Portable = Opus (130)

Small room production setup

Reply #4
You may not need an audio interface and a mixer.    A multi-input interface is more flexible than a USB mixer, because most of these small mixers mix-down to stereo for the USB output.  With a multi-input interface you record multi-track and mix later in software.


Right. Rule of thumb is that you never ever need any more mic inputs than you have mics. ;-)  There are a large number of audio interfaces with built-in mic inputs, and they can be very good.

A common technique is to record tracks separately and use your DAW software to do the mixing.  Breaking the limitations of real time recording can multiply the effectiveness of your equipment investment.

You need at least 1 mic stand to hold the mic where you want ti. A cheap mic stand and boom can cost less than $50 but can work out well.  You need as many mic stands as you intend to use mics concurrently. You need a 20 foot mic cable for every mic you intend to use concurrently.

If you get involved with electric instruments, you probably want to pick up a direct box ($25 or so).

There are two large classes of microphones - vocal mics and instrument mics. Getting good sound out of an appropriate mic can be easier.  Mics and micing has the largest audible effect on sound quality, not your audio interface. A $500 mic and a $150 audio interface is not a crazy combination.  The sonic performance of mics tends to improve significantly up to the approximate $200-300 mark.  But starting out with a good cheap mic is a good idea.


Small room production setup

Reply #5
Frank. I was in your position 6 years ago. I wanted to get into eSport broadcasting and a bit of mixing/production on the side but didn't have much experience or relevant gear.

My first set up.

Monitors: M-Audio AV40
Interface: M-Audio Fast Track Pro
Microphone: Shure PG58
Mixer Soundcraft M8 (had already)
Headset Razer (??)
Software: Reaper, Ableton, Traktor  + TwitchTV, Teamspeak, Audacity & foobar.

Lessons I learned.

M-Audio gear is inexpensive but it breaks down quickly and software support is poor.
Inexpensive domestic 'monitors' (inc KRK) are great for listening, particularly for House and Pop, but you get better results with your own stuff using something flatter and cleaner.
Don't use big speakers as near fields in a small to medium room. Clean and accurate above 50 - 60Hz is better. It is surprisingly easy to learn how to extrapolate down once you get to know your monitors. You can always double check the very bottom end on 'phones, a sub or alternative reference system later if you wish.
A good multi channel semi pro audio interface is a great investment. Not only do you get transparent ADC/DAC and the ability to cue and monitor you also get a DI box, mixer, mic pre-amp with phantom power, compressor, reverb, channel strip, headphone amp. monitor controller and probably some more stuff I don't remember right now.
You need a good pair of closed back headphones with flat FR. 70-250 Ohms impedance is good for virtually anything, anytime.
A physical hardware mixer is good for immediate hands on control but it takes up space and good reliable ones are expensive. Mixing In The Box (ITB) is the way to go.
Virtually anything marketed towards gamers is overpriced rubbish.
Dynamic mics are meant to be shouted into on stage. For the same price get a good Chinese knock off of a classic studio condenser.
Stands and accessories make a difference to quality.

Current set up. All of which I can highly recommend.

Monitors: ADAM A3X
Interface: MOTU Ultralite Hybrid
Microphone: MXL V67
Headphones: Sennheisser HD 25-II 1

That might be too steep for you ATM but quote a budget and I'm sure I can recommend something suitable. It's a great time to buy. Superb quality doesn't cost much atm.

Small room production setup

Reply #6
I would suggest to take a closer look at the JBL LSR 305 speakers. These speakers behave really neutral, on-axis and off-axis.

Small room production setup

Reply #7
I would suggest to take a closer look at the JBL LSR 305 speakers. These speakers behave really neutral, on-axis and off-axis.



I have the LSR 305 big brother 308s and they are as you say. 

They have enough bass to possibly be troublesome (need some fairly serious bass roll off) in a small room.  Great dynamics and imaging.

Small room production setup

Reply #8
Depends on where the OP lives. Prices differ markedly.

You can apparently buy a pair of JBL LSR305 in the US for $250. ADAM A3X are ~$700, the F5 ~$600.

The OP quoted his prices in £.

The cheapest price for LSR305 in the UK is ~£250.  KMR currently sell mid range A3X for £260/pair (which includes stereolink so no need for a monitor controller at first). The entry level equivalent of the JBLs are the ADAM F5 which cost ~£290/pair.

The JBLs are also rear ported so could be a problem if space is an issue.

Small room production setup

Reply #9
Quote
If I want some passive speakers and needed to buy an amp, this would plug into the interface yes?
Yes.  Hi-Fi speakers are generally passive and they need an amp.  (The exception is home-theater subwoofers which are generally powered/active.)

Studio monitors and "computer speakers" are generally active so you can plug them directly into your soundcard or interface.

Small room production setup

Reply #10
The rear port is no problem, as long as one can keep ~5cm distance from the back wall.


Small room production setup

Reply #11
Thanks for the replies guys!

Ok so I've brought an SM58 the other day off eBay as a kinda knee jerk reaction, I'm not too worried though, It's a very solid mic that won't let me down. Hopefully I'll buy 2 more for the radio show setup.

I've been thinking more about my setup and I worked it out that I need to buy either a mixer with 4+ XLR inputs, or a soundcard with 4+ XLR inputs. I figure if i'm gonna have more than 2 guests on the show at a mine, I'll need at least 3 mics which require 3 inputs.

This has got me thinking i'd like to buy a mixer with 4 XLR inputs and then a soundcard that can just handle the processing. If I want to record non-radio show normal music production I can use the XLR's on the soundcard

So my signal path will be:

Mic>Mixer>Sound Interface>Computer then playback via Monitors or headphones from Sound Interface

This is where I need some of your guidance as to what equipment to pick.

Soundcard:

Focusrite #1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/FOCUSRITE-SAFFIRE-PRO24-interfaces-Analog/dp/B002E2R81G/ref=sr_1_15?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1417122314&sr=1-15)
Focusrite #2 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/FOCUSRITE-SCARLETT-Audio-interfaces-USB-Red/dp/B009B15N0Q/ref=sr_1_2?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1417123226&sr=1-2&keywords=focusrite)
Focusrite #3 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/FOCUSRITE-SCARLETT-Audio-interfaces-USB/dp/B005OZE9SA/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1417123226&sr=1-1&keywords=focusrite)

NI (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Native-Instruments-Komplete-Audio-Interface/dp/B004YPRPJ6/ref=sr_1_8?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1417122314&sr=1-8)

Behringer (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-FCA610-Computer-Audio-Interface/dp/B00D3QX2X0/ref=sr_1_17?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1417122314&sr=1-17)

These all will do the job but how much will I need to spend. I suppose all I'll be doing with the interface is run the mixer through it and use it with my monitors. I dunno if I'll need 4 slots on my interface because I'd do do any production work with live instruments being recorded they'll go into the mixer.

Any preferences?

Mixer:

Behringer USB mixer with 4 XLR inputs (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-FCA610-Computer-Audio-Interface/dp/B00D3QX2X0/ref=sr_1_17?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1417122314&sr=1-17)

Mics:

Shure are looking promising for now. I think I'll be able to bag 3 of em for £150. But is there anything else that comes to mind which would eliminate the need for 1 mic per person? A mic with an omnidirectional pickup pattern which I can use for at least 2 people?

Monitors:

I'm gonna spend about £150 on these. If I can snipe a pair of M1's off ebay I might get them.

Thanks,
Frank

Small room production setup

Reply #12
bump

Small room production setup

Reply #13
Mics:

Shure are looking promising for now. I think I'll be able to bag 3 of em for £150. But is there anything else that comes to mind which would eliminate the need for 1 mic per person? A mic with an omnidirectional pickup pattern which I can use for at least 2 people?


Cardiod mics have an approximate 180 degree acceptance angle, so they are good for up to 3-4 people if you move them a little ways away.





Small room production setup

Reply #14
You need a good pair of closed back headphones
I think the open / half open / closed design depends on the situation. I would try to use closed design to avoid bleed into the microphone when recording but usually prefer open or half open when listening back to material because I find many closed designs to sound "boomy" and not suitable for mixing.

Small room production setup

Reply #15
You need a good pair of closed back headphones

I think the open / half open / closed design depends on the situation.

Agreed.

That and personal preference.

Quote
I would try to use closed design to avoid bleed into the microphone when recording


I've never actually seen this become a problem. Most people don't turn their headphones that loud. Sound can bleed out of headphones of all kinds, but mostly when they are off of the head.

Quote
but usually prefer open or half open when listening back to material because I find many closed designs to sound "boomy" and not suitable for mixing.


That is another one of those things that depends on the specific pair of headphones.

If you want really low bleed, there are always IEMs.

 

Small room production setup

Reply #16
Quote
bump


Frank. I can only point you back to my earlier post (#6). Where I explain what gear I began with, what I upgraded to and why I did so.

Since you have elected to go with with something similar to what I started with (dynamic microphone, analogue mixer, hi-fi speakers and headphones) then I suggest your best course of action is to do what everyone else does. Learn by experience. To be fair what you suggest involves the least initial investment.

The important thing to remember is that the success of your project depends on your personality and attention to detail. Not the gear. Some of the best broadcasters I know manage perfectly well with nothing more than the features built in to their laptop.

If I may say so - and aplogies if I'm wrong - you seem to be itching to flash the cash before you have thought things through in sufficient detail.

Most people on this list are knowledeable about technical audio but there aren't many specialised broadcasters. So I suggest you use google to do some further research. for e.g. Audacity Podcasting Guide. Also all popular gaming sites now include guides on how to broadcast successfully. Broadcasting using TwitchTV. The most comprehensive resource for tyro producers is Geatslutz. Thomann has all the gear you will ever need. If they don't list it then it's not worth buying.

Good luck.

P.S.To answer specific questions.

Focusrite and NI are excellent choices. Don't buy the saffire range anymore.It's too old.

The link to the Berhinger is not a analgue mixer. It's an interface with only 2 mic inputs. Same as the others above???? I don't know anything about Berhinger gear any more. The only units I ever bought from them broke down within 6 months. You might be luckier and they do have a good returns policy.

Consider an inexpensive mic stand with a boom arm. Otherwise you will pick up noises from the desk or table top.

You cannot use monitors and microphones at the same time in the same room. So you will need several pairs of headphones. Look for ones recommended for tracking. Use monitors for mixing whenever possible.