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Topic: Help with "budget" hifi (Read 9560 times) previous topic - next topic
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Help with "budget" hifi

I'm planning a hi-fi setup based around my PC.  Basically I'm looking for some suggestions for speakers and reciever/amp.  I'm thinking about the Polk RTi A1's which retail for about $340usd at Fry's.  I've heard good things about them, and the price is good for me.  But I'd like to hear if some of you have some alternative suggestions in that price range....preferrably no more than $450usd/pair. 

As far as recievers go...I have no idea what would be best.  I would prefer to use my PC's digital output, but I'd consider buying a good soundcard for analog if I had to.  I'm only concerned with music listening, so a stereo amp would be fine.  I'm on a budget, but not an extremely strict one.  I don't have to buy right now, I can save up some cash if I need to.

Like I said, I'm here for suggestions and ideas to help me decide.  What other speakers should I consider?  What receivers are the best deals?  Brand names, models, links.....anything will be much appreciated.  Thanks in advance for any help!

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #1 –
Amazon has these Polk speakers for just above $200.

Another way you might want to consider is getting a pair of active nearfield monitors - you won't need a separate amplifier. I am very happy using Adam A7s, though for $1150 they may be a bit over your total budget.

There is also plenty of other options, see for example:
http://www.sweetwater.com/c405--Active_Monitors (read prices carefully, some monitors are priced per pair, other are per monitor).


Also, I have to warn you that you may not necessarily like the sound of nearfield studio monitors, it's usually detailed and balanced with no artificially exaggerated bass. For some monitors sound bass-shy and too aggressive.

Another possible drawback, is that you won't be able to connect any other device, there are no multiple outputs. Also, in many cases there will be no volume control, or there will be seprate volume controls for each speaker, sometimes located on the back panel. One exception are Adam A5s, which have volume controls linked in a way.
In most cases, monitors will accept only analog input (balanced or unbalanced), some cheaper models have USB connectors (effectively, they have built-in sound cards). I am not sure if you find any models accepting S/PDIF.
Ceterum censeo, there should be an "%is_stop_after_current%".

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #2 –
Quote from: pawelq on
Amazon has these Polk speakers for just above $200.

Another way you might want to consider is getting a pair of active nearfield monitors - you won't need a separate amplifier. I am very happy using Adam A7s, though for $1150 they may be a bit over your total budget.

There is also plenty of other options, see for example:
http://www.sweetwater.com/c405--Active_Monitors (read prices carefully, some monitors are priced per pair, other are per monitor).


Also, I have to warn you that you may not necessarily like the sound of nearfield studio monitors, it's usually detailed and balanced with no artificially exaggerated bass. For some monitors sound bass-shy and too aggressive.

Another possible drawback, is that you won't be able to connect any other device, there are no multiple outputs. Also, in many cases there will be no volume control, or there will be seprate volume controls for each speaker, sometimes located on the back panel. One exception are Adam A5s, which have volume controls linked in a way.
In most cases, monitors will accept only analog input (balanced or unbalanced), some cheaper models have USB connectors (effectively, they have built-in sound cards). I am not sure if you find any models accepting S/PDIF.


Sweet!  Thanks for the info on the deal at Amazon.com!  I had considered nearfield monitors, but I've never listened to any studio monitors, and I don't really know what I'm missing, I guess you could say.  I've heard people recommend them for uses like this.  But, although a good bit of my listening will take place while sitting in front of my computer, I would like to be able to play it loud and fill the bedroom with it, if I want.  I'm under the impression that studio monitors are not really good for the purpose of filling a room (even a small one like mine).  But please correct me if I'm wrong, as my experience is limited.  That's why I'm asking for people with experience in these sorts of things for their opinions and recommendations.  Keep them coming!!  Thanks again pawelq.

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #3 –
Quote from: nig nig the conqueror on
I had considered nearfield monitors, but I've never listened to any studio monitors, and I don't really know what I'm missing, I guess you could say.


My experience with either kind of speakers (studio monitors and hi-fi monitors) is not very extensive either. As I said, studio monitors I've listened to so far sounded very natural and real, very detailed, and it was very easy to tell apart layers of music: different instruments and instrument groups. Adam A7s in addition present percussive sounds in a very convincing, accurate manner. Like every drum or cymbal sound is almost palpable. Also piano sounds sound very immediate and they sound rich.

Again, qualities like that may be not preferred, some people like more withdrawn, mushy sound. Also, It is quite possible that many hifi monitors' sound will be as detailed and transparent as sound of good studio monitors.

Quote from: nig nig the conqueror on
But, although a good bit of my listening will take place while sitting in front of my computer, I would like to be able to play it loud and fill the bedroom with it, if I want.  I'm under the impression that studio monitors are not really good for the purpose of filling a room (even a small one like mine).


It will depend on the size of your room and on actual studio monitors, but I don't think there would be a problem in a small room. Most of monitors have decent amps built in, A7s have 50W RMS per driver, so it's 4X50 W total. Even with relatively small woofers (which may mean relatively low efficiency of the speakers) you can drive them pretty loud. Volume controls of my speakers are constantly at -18 dB, and I think I never exceed half-scale on the analog volume control of the sound card (M-Audio Fast Track Pro). Still, it allows me to listen pretty loud.
Ceterum censeo, there should be an "%is_stop_after_current%".

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #4 –
Ok, so if I were to go with a studio monitor setup, I'd need a good analog output from the soundcard, right?  Any other suggestions if I choose to go the monitor route? 

Now what about if I go with a bookshelf speaker/reciever setup...any other ideas for speakers in my range?  What about recievers (with digital input, as speakers/amp/soundcard would probably be pushing the budget a little tight)?

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #5 –
Quote from: nig nig the conqueror on
Ok, so if I were to go with a studio monitor setup, I'd need a good analog output from the soundcard, right?  Any other suggestions if I choose to go the monitor route?

There us a bunch of good semi-pro soundcards out there, if you use Sweetwater again and go to Computer Audio/Audio Interfaces, you will see. BTW, for some reason Sweetwater does not carry KRK monitors, which is also a decent brand, and there is a forum member who recommends these. Do a search.

A thing to consider when choosing a sound card for a monitor setup for music listening is an external one (Firewire or USB). They often have analog volume control, so you will have one knob for both monitors. E-mu USB cards have good opinion, although at least 0404 USB has some issues with foobar's ASIO output, again discussed on HA. Keep in mind that many semi-pro cards use untypical way of volume control, and convenient applets like Volumouse may not work. A disadvantage of an external card is that typically it has some stuff you won't need, but you have to pay for, such as microphone preamps with Phantom Power.

I bought M-Audio Fast Track Pro recently, as only this card and Tapco link.USB offered a combination of features that I needed: USB (I have no Firewire), 24/96 or 24/48, separate analog volume control for monitors and headphones, knobs and switches on the front panel (not on the top). If your requirements were more relaxed, your choice would be wider, in addition to M-Audio, Tapco and E-mu there are decent external interfaces from Lexicon, Tascam, Edirol, Echo Audio and more. Another possible advantage of some external cards is that they may be used as stand-alone A/D or D/A converters.

Most people say that Firewire is more reliable than USB, I had some issues with my interface in the beginning, but they have been resolved, partially by my actions, partially in a magical way ;-).
Next thing is that some of the currently available USB cards, for example M-Audio Fast Track Pro use USB1.1 protocol. This limits the number of channels, sampling rates, and bit depths somewhat. For stereo listening this is not much of an issue, as you can get 2 channels out (or in, but not in the same time) at 96 kHz/24-bit, for 2+2 operation the limit is 48kHz/24-bit, for 2+4 it's 48/16. With USB2.0, Firewire, and PCI you won't see such limitations.

For hi-fi monitors, I have had very good impressions with Tannoy Mercurys, though it was probably two or three generations prior to the current one.

When choosing monitors, whether studio or hi-fi, pay attention to where the bass-reflex port is (assuming that you won't choose closed enclosure design). Although placing them close to a wall or in a corner is never recommended, having a basss-reflex port on the front gives you more flexibility. By the way, better studio monitors typically have EQ controls to allow you counteract the negative effect of placing them too close to a wall.
Ceterum censeo, there should be an "%is_stop_after_current%".

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #6 –
Let's imagine that I'm going the monitor route...  Do I really need a soundcard with all those functions?  I'm not recording.  What about an external DAC?  Something I can input optical SPDIF and output RCA and has a simple volume knob?  Any suggestions as far as that goes?  Good quality/dollar ratio if possible....

Thanks again, pawelq for all your help.

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #7 –
Quote from: nig nig the conqueror on
What about an external DAC?  Something I can input optical SPDIF and output RCA and has a simple volume knob?
If you can find one, that would be a great solution. My impression is that DACs like that are targeted to audiophile market and highly overpriced. Maybe someone else will suggest something here.

There are also small and cheaper USB audio interfaces without pre-amps, like Edirol UA-1EX, M-Audio Transit, or Behringer UCA202. I did not like their small size and how the volume is controlled, but they start at $30 for the Behringer (48kHz/16 bit).

By the way, RCA outputs will be unbalanced, and some monitors have only balanced input (whereas other have both, few - basically, tad better computer speakers - have unbalanced only). There are ways however to connect unbalanced output to balanced input, refer to the monitors' manual.
Ceterum censeo, there should be an "%is_stop_after_current%".

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #8 –
I suppose what I need to do is decide what kind of monitors I would want...  I think I'm going to try to stick in the sub $400/pair range.  Obviously, I'd be willing to go a little beyond this price range if necessary.  So, I'm looking for suggestions/reviews/links regarding active monitors for ~$400/pair.


edit: $400/pair OR LESS!!!

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #9 –
I'm looking at some Behringer B2031A's and the E-MU 0404 usb.  Any thoughts or suggestions?  There's a Guitar Center near where I live that *I think* carries the Behringer monitors.  Maybe I could test them out there....  but as far as the soundcard goes, I can get one for a price I like.  Is it a good card?



(edit: punctuation)

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #10 –
Quote from: nig nig the conqueror on
I'm looking at some Behringer B2031A's and the E-MU 0404 usb.  Any thoughts or suggestions?  There's a Guitar Center near where I live that *I think* carries the Behringer monitors.  Maybe I could test them out there....  but as far as the soundcard goes, I can get one for a price I like.  Is it a good card?
I bought my monitors after reading online opinions and then auditioning them at a GC. At this time they were even cheaper there than anywhere online. So I think that it's a good idea in general, assuming that they will carry the monitors of your choice. In my case it was a bit hard, first because they left a subwoofer on so at first all monitors sounded like they had giant bass, second, there were people trying drum kits next door behind a thin wall. Also, if you buy monitors there, inspect them carefully, GC tried to sell me a monitor that was hit with something and there was a dent not only on the cardboard box, but also on the monitor enclosure.

0404 USB has good opinions, except it has some problems with ASIO and foobar, if you are not going to use foobar together with ASIO, you should be fine. On the other hand, as DACs and volume knob are the only things you need, I would probably consider getting a simpler and cheaper card (like Lexicon Alpha or Lambda, Tascam 122* or 144*, Presonus Audiobox, Alesis IO2, or even the small Edirol or M-Audio, etc., if they meet your other requirements) while increasing the monitor budget as much as possible.

I know nothing about these Behringer monitors, but with your budget I would probably consider KRK Rokit, if you can stand the design ;-). Both RP6G2 and RP5G2 seem to be within your budget, both GCs I visited carried them, and they sounded OK.

BTW, I encourage you to try Adam A7s while you're in GC, especially with piano and percussion, there is a chance that you will decide to increase your budget :-)


*try the volume controls on these before buying, these are not regular knobs but something you operate with a tip of your finger, I did not like it. GC should carry these Tascams.
Ceterum censeo, there should be an "%is_stop_after_current%".

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #11 –
Quote from: pawelq on
I bought my monitors after reading online opinions and then auditioning them at a GC. At this time they were even cheaper there than anywhere online. So I think that it's a good idea in general, assuming that they will carry the monitors of your choice. In my case it was a bit hard, first because they left a subwoofer on so at first all monitors sounded like they had giant bass, second, there were people trying drum kits next door behind a thin wall. Also, if you buy monitors there, inspect them carefully, GC tried to sell me a monitor that was hit with something and there was a dent not only on the cardboard box, but also on the monitor enclosure.

0404 USB has good opinions, except it has some problems with ASIO and foobar, if you are not going to use foobar together with ASIO, you should be fine. On the other hand, as DACs and volume knob are the only things you need, I would probably consider getting a simpler and cheaper card (like Lexicon Alpha or Lambda, Tascam 122* or 144*, Presonus Audiobox, Alesis IO2, or even the small Edirol or M-Audio, etc., if they meet your other requirements) while increasing the monitor budget as much as possible.

I know nothing about these Behringer monitors, but with your budget I would probably consider KRK Rokit, if you can stand the design ;-). Both RP6G2 and RP5G2 seem to be within your budget, both GCs I visited carried them, and they sounded OK.

BTW, I encourage you to try Adam A7s while you're in GC, especially with piano and percussion, there is a chance that you will decide to increase your budget :-)


*try the volume controls on these before buying, these are not regular knobs but something you operate with a tip of your finger, I did not like it. GC should carry these Tascams.


My needs are fairly modest, true.  I was considering the 0404 because I can get it for $170 which is a price I'm comfortable with and it wasn't much more than the "simpler" cards I've found.  But I'd rather buy the best external DAC/soundcard that I can afford before I buy one just because I can get a good deal on it.  That's why I'm asking people with more experience what kinds of cards are better quality, etc.  As far as the monitors, the Behringers seem to be fairly well-regarded here on HA, and so do the KRKs (although, I agree, the appearance is a bit of a turn off, but it's not that big a deal to me).  If anyone has any other suggestions of monitors in the $300-$400/pair range, I'd like to hear them.  I want to check out as many options as possible before buying, obviously.  My budget is a little slim these days for my hobbies and such, but I really wish I could afford to get the A7's.  I'll demo them and who knows?...maybe I'll decide to wait and save my money for them. 

As far as ASIO and the e-mu cards go....I don't use ASIO but I do use foobar with kernel streaming in vista.  I don't really understand all the ASIO/WASAPI/kernel streaming stuff.  I use the Kernel Streaming plugin at the suggestion of a friend.  I can't really tell a difference in what I hear (with or without kernel streaming), so if there's a conflict with that, I can disable that plugin.  I'd like "bit-perfect" output just out of principle, but I don't know if it's something that I can actually hear.

As you can tell, there's a lot I don't understand about this computer audio stuff.  HA has been a great place to find help with these things from people who know a lot more than me.  All your help is much appreciated.

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #12 –
Quote from: nig nig the conqueror on
As far as ASIO and the e-mu cards go....I don't use ASIO but I do use foobar with kernel streaming in vista.  I don't really understand all the ASIO/WASAPI/kernel streaming stuff.  I use the Kernel Streaming plugin at the suggestion of a friend.  I can't really tell a difference in what I hear (with or without kernel streaming), so if there's a conflict with that, I can disable that plugin.  I'd like "bit-perfect" output just out of principle, but I don't know if it's something that I can actually hear.

I wouldn't worry then. From a normal user's viewpoint,  ASIO, apart from being a low-latency driver, which is basically important only for combined playback and recording of music, bypasses the "Wave" colume control of the windows mixer, thus allowing Windows XP users to set volume level of "other" sounds lower than volume level of music from foobar. It's covenient if you surf the internet, which is a noisy place, while listening to music. KS does the same, but it's a kind of hack that is not guaranteed to work.

But you have Vista which means that you have per-application volume setting anyway, and WASAPI exclusive mode if you want to give foobar exclusive access to your sound card.
Ceterum censeo, there should be an "%is_stop_after_current%".

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #13 –
If I can throw my hat into this Id certainly recommend the KRK Rokit 5. They are reasonably priced, great sounding and not expensive. If its a studio monitor you're after, I think these will serve you well. If you want to go up one step, the KRK VXT 6 is also a good choice.  Both links are to Guitarcenter, that seems to have good deals on these.

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #14 –
Quote from: sizetwo on
If I can throw my hat into this Id certainly recommend the KRK Rokit 5. They are reasonably priced, great sounding and not expensive. If its a studio monitor you're after, I think these will serve you well. If you want to go up one step, the KRK VXT 6 is also a good choice.  Both links are to Guitarcenter, that seems to have good deals on these.


VXT 6 is almost 3x the price of the Rokit 5. That is quite a 'step'.....

As for the KRK Rokit5, I have measured/analyzed the generation 1, which was discontinued about 6 months ago in place of the Rokit5 G2. The G1 was incredible for the price. Linear, relatively low resonance for it's market position, extreme high build quality for the price. I don't know if G2 is as good, but it seems probable that it is. G1 was superior to most home hi-fi bookshelf speakers that cost 2x as much, and the home speakers are passive(no built in amplification).

-Chris
 

Help with "budget" hifi

Reply #15 –
Hey guys, thanks for all the replies and suggestions it's really been helpful.  Thanks to your suggestions and a friend who has owned them, I've pretty much decided on the KRK RP-6's as my monitor choice.  I'm currently trying to decide on an "audio interface".  The E-MU 0202 is looking like my best bet at the moment, as far as price goes, and it comes recommended by many people.  Between the monitors and the 0202, I'm looking at a total of about $510 give or take shipping, etc.  This is a pretty comfortable place for me budget-wise.  Let me know if there's something else I should consider.  Again, I appreciate your help and suggestions.  Thanks guys!