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Topic: Soundcard for ripping vinyl? (Read 12497 times) previous topic - next topic
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Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

About six or seven years ago I was doing some vinyl rips with a M-Audio 2496 card and a Technics SL-1200mk5 with decent results.  I still have the Technics and I'm thinking about building a new PC to get back to ripping some of my collection.  I only have an old Macbook at the moment.  All of my knowledge is severely out of date.  Could anyone recommend a decent audio card out there for what I'm doing?

Thanks!

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #1 –
Quote from: doomslug on
About six or seven years ago I was doing some vinyl rips with a M-Audio 2496 card and a Technics SL-1200mk5 with decent results.  I still have the Technics and I'm thinking about building a new PC to get back to ripping some of my collection.  I only have an old Macbook at the moment.  All of my knowledge is severely out of date.  Could anyone recommend a decent audio card out there for what I'm doing?

Thanks!

You want to be looking at the quality of the AD/DA converters in the sound card.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #2 –
recently set up a dedicated computer for ripping vinyl.  Using PC and Windows.  Also a Technics 1200.  I use an ESI Juli@Xte soundcard which I find to work well at fairly high bit rates.  Also went with a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS which can take MC and MM and a good variety of load settings options for the several different cartridges I use.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: doomslug on
About six or seven years ago I was doing some vinyl rips with a M-Audio 2496 card and a Technics SL-1200mk5 with decent results.  I still have the Technics and I'm thinking about building a new PC to get back to ripping some of my collection.  I only have an old Macbook at the moment.  All of my knowledge is severely out of date.  Could anyone recommend a decent audio card out there for what I'm doing?


Vinyl technology hasn't changed appreciably since the early 1970s, and PC's still often have PCI slots for that AP2496.

Why not just carry forward?

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #4 –
I've ripped a bunch of LPs using the built-in Realtek stuff on my motherboard. Seems to work very well indeed, The background noise on vinyl is way louder than cheap onboard sound solutions.

But I agree with everyone else here. You have a very good PCI sound card, and a new PC with PCI slots. Why not just continue using it? And if you're just going to stick with the Macbook, the onboard sound in that should be quite good, supposedly. If not, get a cheap USB DAC, like the Behringer UCA202.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: doomslug on
About six or seven years ago I was doing some vinyl rips with a M-Audio 2496 card and a Technics SL-1200mk5 with decent results.  I still have the Technics and I'm thinking about building a new PC to get back to ripping some of my collection.  I only have an old Macbook at the moment.  All of my knowledge is severely out of date.  Could anyone recommend a decent audio card out there for what I'm doing?

Thanks!


That was a very good card then and still is now.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
I've ripped a bunch of LPs using the built-in Realtek stuff on my motherboard. Seems to work very well indeed, The background noise on vinyl is way louder than cheap onboard sound solutions.

But I agree with everyone else here. You have a very good PCI sound card, and a new PC with PCI slots. Why not just continue using it? And if you're just going to stick with the Macbook, the onboard sound in that should be quite good, supposedly. If not, get a cheap USB DAC, like the Behringer UCA202.


Interference (such as "chirping" noises) from laptop circuitry is, quite often IME, louder than the noise floor of a record. In fact it's obnoxiously present in cassette transfers I've tried to do with my current MacBook Pro.

I even had it on a Pro-Ject Debut III USB TT that I sold a while back. IOW: I don't recommend totally cheaping out on an ADC just because vinyl's inherent background noise.
The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Engelsstaub on
Interference (such as "chirping" noises) from laptop circuitry is, quite often IME, louder than the noise floor of a record. In fact it's obnoxiously present in cassette transfers I've tried to do with my current MacBook Pro.

I find this surprising. All MB's and MBP's I've seen tested measure quite well. The only time I've heard chirping noises from an Apple laptop was when hooking up low-impedance headphones to the headphone jack.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #8 –
A possible problem is having driver issues, buffer issues, or just using the wrong mode. The most annoying potential problem is some software task that kicks in once in a blue moon but causes a glitch in the middle of the recording which you don't notice until you listen properly months or years later.

Hence whatever you choose, the most important thing is to check that it's working properly before you spend hours recording all your vinyl.

Cheers,
David.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #9 –
I've used the integrated sound hardware on my computer (some kind of Realtek thing, ca. 2007) and it's worked fine for my purposes. I don't hear any difference between playing back the digitized recordings and actually giving the records/tapes another spin. The M-Audio is, from everything I've heard, pro-grade hardware so I don't see a reason to switch that out unless you need more channels or something.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #10 –
Abandon the PCI/PCIe audio path and go with USB audio interface.
Just be sure the USB audio device isn't bus powered only and that it has good output options as well (headphone, speakers, S/PDIF). There are too many interfaces to be recommend but, if you want to use the device with your MacBook as well then remember check that there's drivers available for both OS.

I would record using 24/96 ... if this is your target format then, remember check that this resolution (in practice 18-19-bit resolution) is truly supported by the ADC.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #12 –
The anti-alias filters in consumer ADCs tend to be a bit hard-pressed to give perfect results at 44.1 kHz, and sometimes even at 48 kHz still. 96 kHz arguably is more than needed, but it's the next higher widespread sample rate, and it drops quantization noise a few dB to boot if you happen to be stuck at 16 bit (commonly the case with Realtek chips on Windows for whatever reason - yes, I did mean consumer ADCs quite literally).

I would have thought the controversial part to be going for USB, though I can understand why. There's about a gazillion recording interfaces for USB that you can buy, with many notebooks you basically have no other choice, and them being external to begin with tends to be quite convenient. There actually are zero technical reasons - overhead on an internal bus will always be lower, an internal card can be cheaper given the same performance since it does not require a case or power supply, and some USB implementations have proven to be problematic in the past (some nVidia chipsets come to mind). Well, or maybe there is one - try putting an XLR jack on a standard slot bracket. Hence why breakout cables or boxes used to be common.

One can definitely try stuffing the trusty AP2496 into a new PC if it has some PCI slots, but be warned that the drivers are reported to be quirky under current Windows versions (like 8 up) and are no longer being developed, and apparently the PCIe-to-PCI bridge chips used in current-generation boards (native PCI has meanwhile been dropped) may result in some odd issues as well, like the PC totally refusing to boot when the card is installed.

It would be interesting to know what the card would be driven from (phonopre or whatnot). Some otherwise excellent cards like the Asus Xonar D1/DX have rather low input impedance, like 4k7 if memory serves, and that may be a tad on the low side for some outputs. You also want to avoid contracting a ground loop. If it does seem unavoidable, a balanced input and matching cabling (custom if need be) would be the better choice, which brings us to studio-type recording interfaces.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: stephan_g on
The anti-alias filters in consumer ADCs tend to be a bit hard-pressed to give perfect results at 44.1 kHz, and sometimes even at 48 kHz still. 96 kHz arguably is more than needed, but it's the next higher widespread sample rate, and it drops quantization noise a few dB to boot if you happen to be stuck at 16 bit (commonly the case with Realtek chips on Windows for whatever reason - yes, I did mean consumer ADCs quite literally).

I would have thought the controversial part to be going for USB, though I can understand why. There's about a gazillion recording interfaces for USB that you can buy, with many notebooks you basically have no other choice, and them being external to begin with tends to be quite convenient. There actually are zero technical reasons - overhead on an internal bus will always be lower, an internal card can be cheaper given the same performance since it does not require a case or power supply, and some USB implementations have proven to be problematic in the past (some nVidia chipsets come to mind). Well, or maybe there is one - try putting an XLR jack on a standard slot bracket. Hence why breakout cables or boxes used to be common.

One can definitely try stuffing the trusty AP2496 into a new PC if it has some PCI slots, but be warned that the drivers are reported to be quirky under current Windows versions (like 8 up) and are no longer being developed, and apparently the PCIe-to-PCI bridge chips used in current-generation boards (native PCI has meanwhile been dropped) may result in some odd issues as well, like the PC totally refusing to boot when the card is installed.

It would be interesting to know what the card would be driven from (phonopre or whatnot). Some otherwise excellent cards like the Asus Xonar D1/DX have rather low input impedance, like 4k7 if memory serves, and that may be a tad on the low side for some outputs. You also want to avoid contracting a ground loop. If it does seem unavoidable, a balanced input and matching cabling (custom if need be) would be the better choice, which brings us to studio-type recording interfaces.


A fine list of exceptional claims that seem to demand TOS 8 compliant evidence, particularly this one:

"The anti-alias filters in consumer ADCs tend to be a bit hard-pressed to give perfect results at 44.1 kHz, and sometimes even at 48 kHz still.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #14 –
I have probably said it before in another thread but I think that probably the most important thing is a really great tracking cartridge/needle. It makes a huge difference to me.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: punkrockdude on
I have probably said it before in another thread but I think that probably the most important thing is a really great tracking cartridge/needle. It makes a huge difference to me.

Garbage in, garbage out, as the saying goes. If you use a crappily set up analogue source, you will be faithfully recording the sound of your records being played on a crappily set up analogue source. That goes for turntables and tape machines.

And you only want to do the job once per album. Get the replay wrong and whatever you do further along the signal chain won't help you.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: punkrockdude on
I have probably said it before in another thread but I think that probably the most important thing is a really great tracking cartridge/needle. It makes a huge difference to me.


Makes perfect sense since the LP is the weakest part of the process.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #17 –
FWIW,  I have been disillusioned by my attempts at quality input using USB.  USB PhonoPlus, ZPhono USB, etc.  I even had a nice ADL GT40 but couldn't get rid of all of the background noise no matter how hard I (and they) tried.  And so many devices couldn't record above 14.1/16bit.  Have been very happy with my Juli@XTE.
 

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: freddy687 on
FWIW,  I have been disillusioned by my attempts at quality input using USB.  USB PhonoPlus, ZPhono USB, etc.  I even had a nice ADL GT40 but couldn't get rid of all of the background noise no matter how hard I (and they) tried.  And so many devices couldn't record above 14.1/16bit.  Have been very happy with my Juli@XTE.

Depends what you mean by "background noise". If it's surface noise from the LP, then your records need cleaning.

If there's noise from somewhere else, then there may be a solution (grounding, for instance).

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #20 –
The guy asked for an opinion and I gave it.  Years of practical experience working with a variety of platforms.  And I think I know the difference from record noise and other.  And since I don't get any of this noise on my current setup I'm pretty sure its not that.  It varied also with the quality of the USB connection but still didn't disappear.  The problem I had may very well have been a grounding issue but tried a variety of solutions with ADL's help and nothing worked to completely eliminate it. They even sent a new one which was better but still had the problem.  Not as much problem with some of the other units such as my ZPhono but as mentioned they were limited in the ability to record higher rates.


Yes I'm not a professional at this but as a fairly experienced amateur I think my experience with trying to get the most out of USB systems is relevant to his request.  I have found them to be hit and miss.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #21 –
Quote from: freddy687 on
The guy asked for an opinion and I gave it.


Yeah, but from the information you gave its hard to tell if you opinion is well-founded or not.

Quote from: freddy687 on
It varied also with the quality of the USB connection but still didn't disappear.


What?  USB connections don't have a "quality".  Even if they did, that certainly won't cause noise.  A broken cable will just cause the device to detach in Windows/Linux. 

I guess a grounding issue might make sense.  Or some other weird problem with your setup or electronics.  Regardless, this is probably something you should mention when giving your opinion, since it sounds like some weird problem specific to your setup that won't necessarily apply to other people.

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #22 –
What do you mean well founded?  I make no pretense of being a professional.  I'm just giving an opinion.  He can take it or leave it.  As I said, not new at recording vinyl and I think my setup is more than amateur.  Whether I am a professional or not still doesn't nullify my point.  Based on not anecdotes but my experience with a variety of situations and equipment, USB recording systems can be occasionally frustrating even with supposedly highly rated equipment.  And I have not had problems with my current system.  The problem I had with a high frequency background noise with the ADL unit could not be resolved with a variety of different grounding techniques and cables.  I have a recording of the sound if I could post it.  Yes it was unique.  To that unit.  But why that unit and not any of the others?  And even with help of professionals the problem could not be solved.  Point being, USB connection problems exist and in MY EXPERIENCE I have not had any problems with my PC based system and soundcard.

And none of what you said nullifies my point that being able to record at higher bit rates is limited on many USB systems.


System  (not high end but works)

Dynavector 10X5 or Ortofon 2M Bronze  (hence the point in my original post about having the ability to record using both MM and MC cartridges)
Technics SL-1210MK2
ProJect Tube Box DS
Blue Jeans shielded analog audio cable
Juli@Xte soundcard
Wavelab Elements or CuBase Elements software for recording
Diamond Cut DC 8.5 for pop and click repair
AudioCoder for encoding to other formats
If Ripping albums to AAC files use LP ripper to split album side into tracks, assign tags and compress
Listening mostly with Fiio X5 with NAD HP50 headphones

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: freddy687 on
What do you mean well founded?


Accurate; correct. 

Quote from: freddy687 on
I'm just giving an opinion.


Sure, but as you originally wrote it, I think probably your opinion was not correct, and therefore not very useful to someone reading this thread.  Your second post where you described some more complex technical problems with your system sounds more accurate and probably a lot more useful. 

Quote from: freddy687 on
Whether I am a professional or not still doesn't nullify my point.


What is your point?

Soundcard for ripping vinyl?

Reply #24 –
Whether I am a professional or not still doesn't nullify my point.

What is your point?


Your kidding, right?  Did you even read my post?  A number of people have been suggesting using USB connections as a means of recording.  My point?  "...USB recording systems can be occasionally frustrating even with supposedly highly rated equipment."  And as a suggestion, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE, I recommended a PC based soundcard.