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Topic: Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer) (Read 532430 times) previous topic - next topic
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Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #200 –
Quote
bass redirection in the creative speaker settings? i have the panel in front of me, and even i don't see what you mean

You need to set a 5.1 speaker system first in the Audigy2ZS before the bass management tab becomes active. Similar to the bass redirection option in foo_channel_mixer, this controls the sub volume and xover frequency.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #201 –
Quote from: skipyrich on
Quote from: boombaard on
anyway, my original intention was to ask skipy if the 'front in rear' and 'rear in front' really are supposed to cause saturation (the total gain seems a bit much even at .75 level for both of them).. either that or explain the workings of them a bit better (it saturates at 50% volume on my speakers with them both at .8 while the song with FiR+RiF on 0 it doesn't even saturate at 90% max speaker volume)

I'm afraid that my English will not allow me to clearly explain this thing, but I'll try...
The principle of surround upmix is to move "out-of-phase" signal from the front speakers to the rear. I.e.:
make center channel by removing out-of-phase signal from L/R:
C=(L+R)/2
extract out-of-phase signal from L/R then send it to RL/RR:
RL = L-C
RR = R-C
That's all, nothing more!
But the sound in RL/RR channels is too dry and inexpressive, therefore I have added two additional settings: "front in rear" and "rear in front". FiR controls how many of initial signal will be in rear channels. RiF controls how many of extracted signal will be in front channels. I.e.:
L = L-RL*(1-RiF)
R = R-RR*(1-RiF)
RL = RL+L*FiR
RR = RR+R*FiR
If you set RiF to '0', then you will receive just mono signal in front speakers:
L = L-RL => L-(L-C) => C
R = R-RR => R-(R-C) => C
If you set FiR to '1', then you will receive expanded stereo in rear speakers:
RL = RL+L*FiR => 2L-C
RR = RR+R*FiR => 2R-C

My favorite settings is: FiR=0.3, RiF=0.7

Thanks skipy for trying to explain. From your explanation, your surround mode option is similar to creative's cmss3d first or second options, where only a portion of the signal is sent to the rears/center. If I simply want stereo surround (similar to cmss 3rd option), I need to use the 'copy' mode! That disables all the RiF and FiR options... Now in surround mode if I set RiF to 1 then I get true stereo from front, right? Also add LFE (BIG systems) was checked off, no wonder I was getting too much bass... I liked the settings FiR=0.8 and RiF=1.00, rear volume at 0.8. If I tried setting the volume and/or FiR to higher values I was getting quite a bit of distortion just as boombard posted.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #202 –
Quote from: sandeep108 on
If I simply want stereo surround (similar to cmss 3rd option), I need to use the 'copy' mode! That disables all the RiF and FiR options...

In copy mode there are no "rear" or "front" channels - they are exactly the same. In that case, why to mix it?

Quote from: sandeep108 on
Now in surround mode if I set RiF to 1 then I get true stereo from front, right?

Exactly.

Quote from: sandeep108 on
Also add LFE (BIG systems) was checked off, no wonder I was getting too much bass... I liked the settings FiR=0.8 and RiF=1.00, rear volume at 0.8. If I tried setting the volume and/or FiR to higher values I was getting quite a bit of distortion just as boombard posted.

It very much depends on a musical material. I had idea to scan tracks, as replaygain do, to automatically apply gain to the rear channels...
My English is very good!
...in comparison with my Korean language...

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #203 –
Quote
In copy mode there are no "rear" or "front" channels - they are exactly the same. In that case, why to mix it?

I have been too used to 'surround stereo' music. My old SB Live simply did this when 4.1/5.1 was selected.
I also like the stereo separation so the RiF set to 1.0 achieves this. I agree yours actually tries to send effects to different channels. Some music sounds good when this is done, on some soundstage is lost. But yes, your foo_channel_mixer is great software that is achieving very very decent surround sound effects from stereo stream. And also allows 'copy' mode and fine tuning of the surround upmixing, unlike Creative's 3 simple/stupid options. Eternally grateful...

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #204 –
any plan to make a profile switcher panel thingy in a futur release? you know, like a playlist switcher but for your plugin. i use my headphones 50% of the time and a 5.1 system the other 50%. i dont like having to go in the preferences everytime i want to switch profiles depending on what i'm using, headphones or 5.1 system. it would be really handy to have that little panel thingy.

thanks for the plugin by the way! 

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #205 –
Quote from: BelleAndZEK on
any plan to make a profile switcher panel thingy in a futur release? you know, like a playlist switcher but for your plugin. i use my headphones 50% of the time and a 5.1 system the other 50%. i dont like having to go in the preferences everytime i want to switch profiles depending on what i'm using, headphones or 5.1 system. it would be really handy to have that little panel thingy.

AFAIK, it's possible by hack only...
Anyway, CM's profiles is interfere with new DSP presets feature. Vote in this thread to make it more usable.
My English is very good!
...in comparison with my Korean language...

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #206 –
Any chance of seeing 6.1 or 7.1 support?

I've got 6.1 speakers and I'm lacking rear center.

I've found a quick workaround by setting RC as RR in Foobar ASIO, but it plays the same sound as RR, and I would like for example 50% of RL and 50% of RR into RC or maybe something different than that.
"The brightest flame burns quickest..."

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #207 –
A naive question, perhaps: why is this plugin better than Creative's CMSS 3D? That is, you sure get more per-channel control, but what particular improvements does this yield for a, say, 5.1 system? A working central speaker? Does it make a sound difference?

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #208 –
Quote from: elenhil on
A naive question, perhaps: why is this plugin better than Creative's CMSS 3D? That is, you sure get more per-channel control, but what particular improvements does this yield for a, say, 5.1 system? A working central speaker? Does it make a sound difference?

It is definitely more per channel control, surround control, spacing control as well as sub-woofer control. e.g. you can make your center much louder. With creative you simply have no options.

I wish to add here that with fb2k 0.9, none of creative's settings (cmss3d or bass redirection) worked. I feel that maybe I had installed the beta by mistake. Therefore without foo_channel_mixer, fb2k was not quite complete. With the latest 0.9.1 from foobar2000.org, all of creative's settings now work, if foo_channel_mixer is set to bypass. Again this may be violating whatever TOS, but either way as far as the stereo separation effects to surround sound go, cmss3d and foo_channel_mixer are almost similar. As posted earlier, in my case the sound from fb2k/channel_mixer is more 'fuller' and with more low end, I suspect as a result of my sub setting to 'leave satellites intact'. This does result in them contributing since they are capable (62.5 +/- 3db). In creative's case, you have no such option - it redirects all sound below the cut-off to the sub.

Edit: Simply try it out yourself and set it to what your ears like.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #209 –
Quote from: Rogacz on
Any chance of seeing 6.1 or 7.1 support?

I'll not promise anything. Maybe...
My English is very good!
...in comparison with my Korean language...
 

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #210 –
What position should channel_mixer have in the DSP chain (relative to SSRC, Volume Control, Noise Sharpening)?

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #212 –
Quote from: elenhil on
What position should channel_mixer have in the DSP chain (relative to SSRC, Volume Control, Noise Sharpening)?

Unless you have other DSPs working that do something to the channel signals (like a crossfeed, for example), in most cases the last position should do best.
Nothing is impossible if you don't need to do it yourself.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #213 –
Hi skipyrich,

I'm using your great extension with a Audigy 2NX and the latest 0.9.1. I seem to have a problem. It stops working unless I reinstall the component. I have a Teufel 5.1 System (Magnum E). I seem to only have sound on the two frontspeakers and the bass.
For testing I'm using the 6-channel setting without touching anything else.

Do you have any ideas ore want more information?

PS: It's also not working with channel_mixer beeing the only component in DSP-chain..

edit:
I just disabled the two frontchannels (chechboxes). The sound gets more silent and still only comes out of the two front-speakers. This time reinstalling the plugin didn't have any effect. I also noticed, that removing and adding channel_mixer stopped the playback of a file (.ogg). Unpausing didn't work - I had to click stop and start.

edit2:
sorry, I seam to suddenly have a problem with my soundsystem. The rear and the centerspeaker are only working with cmss enabled. The audiotest of the creative-drivers are also negative for center, rear-left and rear-right.


edit3:
got it back working. Hardwareacceration for audio in directx was set to low. *grrr*

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #214 –
Quote from: Silversight on
in most cases the last position should do best.

Just before the "advanced limiter", that should always be last. (eliminates possible clipping).
In foobar2000 versions before 0.9, volume (if you use it) should best be after Channel Mixer too.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #215 –
Great plugin! I love it but i have two problems with it.
1. If i listen to music it somtimes stops. If i fast forward och rewind it starts playing again.
2. Sometime the music slows down. If i pause and then resumes playback it continues.

Do you know why?
I'm using a integrated Nvidia SoundStorm.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #216 –
Quote from: VaCUm on
Great plugin! I love it but i have two problems with it.
1. If i listen to music it somtimes stops. If i fast forward och rewind it starts playing again.
2. Sometime the music slows down. If i pause and then resumes playback it continues.

Do you know why?
I'm using a integrated Nvidia SoundStorm.

I'm having the exact same problem, also using an integrated Nvidia Soundstorm on an Abit NF7-S. Music will occasionally slow down or go out of synch and will sometimes abruptly stop mid-track.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #217 –
Quote from: VaCUm on
Great plugin! I love it but i have two problems with it.
1. If i listen to music it somtimes stops. If i fast forward och rewind it starts playing again.
2. Sometime the music slows down. If i pause and then resumes playback it continues.

Do you know why?
I'm using a integrated Nvidia SoundStorm.

Quote from: Joelimite on
I'm having the exact same problem, also using an integrated Nvidia Soundstorm on an Abit NF7-S. Music will occasionally slow down or go out of synch and will sometimes abruptly stop mid-track.

1. Try to set up "Convert stereo to 4 channels" as single DSP. Is this problem persist?
2. Run dxdiag and try to set hardware acceleration for audio to minimum. Same question...

Don't use ASIO or KS!
My English is very good!
...in comparison with my Korean language...

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #218 –
Quote from: skipyrich on
1. Try to set up "Convert stereo to 4 channels" as single DSP. Is this problem persist?
2. Run dxdiag and try to set hardware acceleration for audio to minimum. Same question...

Don't use ASIO or KS!

The "Convert stereo to 4 channels" DSP has always worked great for me. I reduced hardware acceleration from 'full" to "basic" in the DirectX diagnostic tool, and that seems to have cleared up the problem (at least in the last hour I've been listening since reducing hardware acceleration). I would like to have my hardware acceleration set to full though, anything else I can do to avoid synch/stopping issues? Thanks for the help by the way!

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #219 –
Why don't use ASIO or KS?
"The brightest flame burns quickest..."

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #220 –
Quote from: Joelimite on
The "Convert stereo to 4 channels" DSP has always worked great for me. I reduced hardware acceleration from 'full" to "basic" in the DirectX diagnostic tool, and that seems to have cleared up the problem (at least in the last hour I've been listening since reducing hardware acceleration). I would like to have my hardware acceleration set to full though, anything else I can do to avoid synch/stopping issues? Thanks for the help by the way!

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, sorry

Quote from: Rogacz on
Why don't use ASIO or KS?

While KS may work perfectly with 2-ch audio, multichannel audio may bring it down.
I had some problems with ASIO when CPU is used hard.

To test Channel Mixer please use default output device.
My English is very good!
...in comparison with my Korean language...

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #221 –
I'm using ASIO output because then I can make use of RC (it plays RL or RR, but it makes sound anyway).

I've got X-Fi set on Audio Creation Mode with Bit-Matched playback, DSP @ 44.1 and ASIO is working great with Your plugin.
I've never had any issues ;-)

Btw. I was wondering, how does Channel Mixer create FC channel? Is it just a plain 50/50 FR/FL or it uses some other filters?

This plugin is great, I like it better than CMSS-3D.
"The brightest flame burns quickest..."

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #222 –
Quote from: Rogacz on
Btw. I was wondering, how does Channel Mixer create FC channel? Is it just a plain 50/50 FR/FL or it uses some other filters?

It is just a (FR+FL)/2.
My English is very good!
...in comparison with my Korean language...