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Topic: The war has begun! (Read 35745 times) previous topic - next topic
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The war has begun!

STOP THE WAR!

The war has begun!

Reply #1 –
Funny how this is an all-around different forum
"Different" as in "more intelligent".
Just a minute ago I read a thread in the CDFreaks forum where they were actually cheering the beggining of the war and dissing the French.
It makes me happy that the first post on the subject in HA is a pro-peace one.

No a la guerra, no en nuestro nombre!/ No war, not in our name!
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

The war has begun!

Reply #2 –
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Funny how this is an all-around different forum
"Different" as in "more intelligent".
Just a minute ago I read a thread in the CDFreaks forum where they were actually cheering the beggining of the war and dissing the French.
It makes me happy that the first post on the subject in HA is a pro-peace one.

No a la guerra, no en nuestro nombre!/ No war, not in our name!

Yes, you are right.

War is not a solution!
I'am against war!

And I think most of the americans and british people are against the war.

The war has begun!

Reply #3 –
I'm against that unjustified and stupid war too.

The war has begun!

Reply #4 –
War War War war damage everything!

Poor innocent Iraq's citizens   

Besides, Polution! 

War is stupid

The war has begun!

Reply #5 –
yes
stop the war and stop the usa.
i have nothing against american people but against its administration.

The war has begun!

Reply #6 –
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I'm against that unjustified and stupid war too.

I'm not sure if it's unjustified; I'm having difficulties to form an opinion on that. Ofcourse, war is not a nice thing and there will be thousands of personal tragedies. But if the Iraqi people are really suppressed the way the western media want us to believe, then this is a quick way out of that. As I said, I just don't know what to think.

What is definitely bad though, is that the international community was just ignored in this matter. Whereas wars between other countries would be settled by the UN, apparently the British and Americans can just dismay international opinion.... 

edit: oh and I also want to mention that I can't understand why our (Dutch) administration supports these acts. Usually they're so saint-like, abiding by every rule in the book. Now, they're just kissing Bush's ***.

The war has begun!

Reply #7 –
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But if the Iraqi people are really suppressed the way the western media want us to believe, then this is a quick way out of that.

They should better be really quick now, indeed. But those BlitzKrieg's usually have the tendency to become lingering somehow.
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oh and I also want to mention that I can't understand why our (Dutch) administration supports these acts. Usually they're so saint-like, abiding by every rule in the book. Now, they're just kissing Bush's ***.

They'll receive some dividends out of it, I suppose.

The war has begun!

Reply #8 –
War is a last resort. Sadam has had 12+ years and killed thousands. Should we give him more time? Is he just missunderstood? Will that solve things? Or will it result in more death and tragedy to all those subjugated to him against their will? The Iraqi people have more to fear from their own government in a war than they do the US. So I ask you if not war then what?

I am not pro-war. But I know that there is a time for war. A time when the cost of in-action is much worse than those of action. Now is the time. Though I do not favor war if I were called to serve I would without hesitation.

What good is freedom if it can not be shared? If it could not be shared would it be freedom? What good is it to be free sitting at home behind castle walls trusting in your timid leadership to protect you from the world and reality. Be proactive. Be decicive. But most of all don't be condecending unless you know of a better way.

The war has begun!

Reply #9 –
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They'll receive some dividends out of it, I suppose.


That is the real goal of all wars. Everything else is just a side effect. But in this case the side effects stand to be substantial and good.

The war has begun!

Reply #10 –
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I'm against that unjustified and stupid war too.

I'm not sure if it's unjustified; I'm having difficulties to form an opinion on that. Ofcourse, war is not a nice thing and there will be thousands of personal tragedies. But if the Iraqi people are really suppressed the way the western media want us to believe, then this is a quick way out of that. As I said, I just don't know what to think.

Well, if invading countries is the way to remove evil (no sarchasm here) dictators, we're fixed!! There are several more dictators of this kind around, is USA going to invade and start a war against every country governed from a evil dictator? What about China? Are they evil enough for Bush standards? Don't they have real massive destruction weapons?

And, what to say to the fact that Saddam Hussein didn't become an evil dictator in 1992 when he invaded Kuwait? He's been the same bastard ever, even when he was supported from the USA back in the 80's. In fact , IIRC USA was the one that provided the bacteriological weapons and technology to Irak then. Even more, Saddam used those weapons against kurde (is that in english?) people when they were still supported from USA. Hey, Roosevelt was the one who said then something like "Saddam is a son of a b*tch, but he's our son of a b*tch". Not to say that USA in the past helped to instaurate really evil dictatorial regimes such as Pinochet's one in Chile, just because it was good for their interests.

Now, seriously, please someone correct me if some of these facts are wrong, I recall they are not but I could have made a mistake somewhere.

Edit: Patsoe, don't take this as some anger to you. In fact, if Saddam is removed, that will be a good thing indeed, and that is something to consider. Still, I think it is not the way of doing things, and that can't justify a war or an invassion.

The war has begun!

Reply #11 –
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War is a last resort. [...]

I think you're right in a lot of the things you say.

But bringing freedom and democracy to people can not be done by treading democracy with heels. The international community had democratically come to the conclusion that the time is not now. Some superpower ignoring that is not a good thing imho.

Besides, the argument put forward in the last days wasn't so much to free the Iraqi's, but rather to defend the world against possible terrorism. Again, the UN doubted the reality of such threats.

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They'll receive some dividends out of it, I suppose.


i don't think that is the point. Rather, it has to do with the fact that your opinion being ignored is quite a slap in the face. For the French, it is now. A nation as great as that clearly has nothing in its power to stop this war. The Dutch administration is saving themselves for such a display of impotence, by supporting the war politically. At least, that's how I see it.

The war has begun!

Reply #12 –
So america wants iraq to get rid all the weapons!  why did america supply them the weapons and technology in the first place.  Out of 40 or so wars today, 39 of these wars have american weapons.  My questions is, then is america going to stop supplying weapons, and when are they going to get rid of there own weapons?

The war has begun!

Reply #13 –
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So america wants iraq to get rid all the weapons! Why did america supply them the weapons and technology in the first place.


Because of a foolish and stupid decision of a former administration to play the local countries against themselves rather than get directly involved to bring the Iran hostage incident to an end. I agree Sadam has not changed his ways from then to now. But our government does not have the market cornered for stupid decisions.


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Out of 40 or so wars today, 39 of these wars have american weapons.  My questions is, then is america going to stop supplying weapons, and when are they going to get rid of there own weapons?


Your definition is faulty. There is a major difference between weapons that were designed or possibly assembled in America and weapons given or sold to other countries by the government. Just because someone has american made weapons does not mean that America gave them to them. Companies in a free democracy are free to sell their wares to most anyone they like. And when that is not enough they sell behind the governments back. What of all the countries with Russian arms and atack vehicles? Did Russia give them to everyone? No. A few yes. But not everyone.

The war has begun!

Reply #14 –
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Well, if invading countries is the way to remove evil (no sarchasm here) dictators, we're fixed!! There are several more dictators of this kind around, is USA going to invade and start a war against every country governed from a evil dictator? What about China? Are they evil enough for Bush standards? Don't they have real massive destruction weapons?


If going after one evil dictator would require that you went after all, there would be no beginning in it, would there? Don't get me wrong, I see there's a point in what you're saying.

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And, what to say to the fact that Saddam Hussein didn't become an evil dictator in 1992 when he invaded Kuwait? He's been the same bastard ever, even when he was supported from the USA back in the 80's. In fact , IIRC USA was the one that provided the bacteriological weapons and technology to Irak then. Even more, Saddam used those weapons against kurde (is that in english?) people when they were still supported from USA. Hey, Roosevelt was the one who said then something like "Saddam is a son of a b*tch, but he's our son of a b*tch".


This is very true. But although the Americans probably have other than ideological reasons to take out Saddam, if the result is the same (freedom for the people) the war would in some sense be justified. Again, I totally agree with you that the American motifs for doing all this are pretty evil at that.

The war has begun!

Reply #15 –
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editing

Meaning of editing:

restriction
suppression
control
cutting
bowdlerization
expurgation

america says they want freedom!  There idea of freedom is them in control of the world!

The war has begun!

Reply #16 –
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War is a last resort. [...]

I think you're right in a lot of the things you say.

But bringing freedom and democracy to people can not be done by treading democracy with heels. The international community had democratically come to the conclusion that the time is not now. Some superpower ignoring that is not a good thing imho.


Democracy has not been ignored. America is not acting unilatteraly. America has the support of many countries and is not doing this on their own. Democracy does not mean that we only do something if 100% of the participants agree. All you need is a simple majority. And while there are no end of tiny countries who oppose the war. They have nothing to contribute and nothing to gain from it in any way. Those that are important(sorry little guys) have agreed enough that a majority in favor was reached.

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Besides, the argument put forward in the last days wasn't so much to free the Iraqi's, but rather to defend the world against possible terrorism. Again, the UN doubted the reality of such threats.


The UN has a hard time trusting anyone.(accept perhaps for Sadam to mend his ways.) That is not saying much.

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i don't think that is the point. Rather, it has to do with the fact that your opinion being ignored is quite a slap in the face.


And quite a wake up call.

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For the French, it is now. A nation as great as that clearly has nothing in its power to stop this war. The Dutch administration is saving themselves for such a display of impotence, by supporting the war politically. At least, that's how I see it.


No one said they must contribute man power to the war. Political support would have ben sufficient from the French. And while having their oppinion now ignored may be a slap in the face to them. They delivered the first slap in the face in this situation.

The war has begun!

Reply #17 –
The "outside world" might like to know that not everyone in the UK is "Pro War" - the most "Pro War" opinion poll put the number at 50% - others have it at 30-40%. Many people find it ironic that we're going to war to bring "democracy" to Iraq, while the majority of people here don't want war, and the majority of people in the USA didn't vote for George Bush. It's good that both countries have such a good grasp of the democracy that they are so keen to export.


But Sadam is an evil dictator, and now that we are at war, I hope and pray that it will be as short and "painless" as possible. I hope that we (USA+UK) invest at least a fraction of the cost of the war into the following peace.


btw, do people in the USA buy what George Bush says? I was listening to his speech - something about "We must fight them with planes, bombs and marines now, otherwise we will have to fight them with police and firefighters later" - do people believe that? Do they really think that Iraq poses a threat? Do they know that both USA and UK intelligence services have said that Iraq has no links with Al-Qieda (sp?), and faces no threat to either nation? If we had had this second war back in 1998 and ousted Sadam then, to people in the USA somehow think that 9/11 would not have happened? Do they think this war will make another 9/11 less likely?


Finally, I have an unpopular opinion: I think France did the worst thing possible. By saying that they would not sign up for a UN ultimatum, "whatever the conditions", they made this war inevitable. A cast iron ultimatum that said "full compliance within 30 days or you will be removed - we have the troops ready" may have been the best thing to prevent war. Whilst the USA may have had too little patience with Iraq to bring international opinion along with them, France showed signs of having infinite patience. You can't have infinite patience with a dictator.


I'm Anti war and don't agree with what the politicians have got us into. But now it's started I'm behind our troops 200% - the fiance of one of my friends is in Kuwait - their wedding is in August...



Cheers,
David.

The war has begun!

Reply #18 –
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Finally, I have an unpopular opinion: I think France did the worst thing possible. By saying that they would not sign up for a UN ultimatum, "whatever the conditions", they made this war inevitable. A cast iron ultimatum that said "full compliance within 30 days or you will be removed - we have the troops ready" may have been the best thing to prevent war. Whilst the USA may have had too little patience with Iraq to bring international opinion along with them, France showed signs of having infinite patience. You can't have infinite patience with a dictator.

What was france supposed to do.  They dont want war!  america said "you are either with us, or with the terrorists".  france is not with the terrorists and does not want war!

The war has begun!

Reply #19 –
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america says they want freedom!  There idea of freedom is them in control of the world!

Our idea of freedom has nothing to do with controlling the world. An unwarrented statement. You just lumped an entire nation into the 'dictators of peace' catagory saying this. Not fair, and not true.

No matter what the adminstration does, we, the American people, have little say at this point. But that doesn't mean we need to all be bashed because of what the policy makers in Washington do. Give it a rest. We're just along for the ride now. Like the rest of the world.

The war has begun!

Reply #20 –
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Well, if invading countries is the way to remove evil (no sarchasm here) dictators, we're fixed!! There are several more dictators of this kind around, is USA going to invade and start a war against every country governed from a evil dictator? What about China? Are they evil enough for Bush standards? Don't they have real massive destruction weapons?

I agree 100%

I doubt that Iraq is (or will be in the near future) a serious military threat to USA as they have been pictured by the Bush administration. There must be other reasons for the war and it annoys me that the real reasons are hidden from the public and we have to guess. Is it because they want a new "pax americana" in the world or is it to secure oil resources or do they know that Saddam has some nukes which nobody else knows about?

Well, I still don't know what to believe...

The war has begun!

Reply #21 –
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editing

Meaning of editing:

restriction
suppression
control
cutting
bowdlerization
expurgation

america says they want freedom!  There idea of freedom is them in control of the world!

No it means that I was taking the time to respond to individual ideas in turn while you were over reacting. I hope this does not become typical of you.

The war has begun!

Reply #22 –
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Do they think this war will make another 9/11 less likely?

I think it's the opposite, very likely the war will give more motivation to anti-USA extremists.

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I think France did the worst thing possible.


Maybe you have a point here, but who knows. Still, I think that USA administration would have started the war no matter what had happened.

The war has begun!

Reply #23 –
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So america wants iraq to get rid all the weapons! Why did america supply them the weapons and technology in the first place.


Because of a foolish and stupid decision of a former administration to play the local countries against themselves rather than get directly involved to bring the Iran hostage incident to an end. I agree Sadam has not changed his ways from then to now. But our government does not have the market cornered for stupid decisions.


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Out of 40 or so wars today, 39 of these wars have american weapons.  My questions is, then is america going to stop supplying weapons, and when are they going to get rid of there own weapons?


Your definition is faulty. There is a major difference between weapons that were designed or possibly assembled in America and weapons given or sold to other countries by the government. Just because someone has american made weapons does not mean that America gave them to them. Companies in a free democracy are free to sell their wares to most anyone they like. And when that is not enough they sell behind the governments back. What of all the countries with Russian arms and atack vehicles? Did Russia give them to everyone? No. A few yes. But not everyone.

Looks like you are 1 of the billions of people blinded by the media!!!

The war has begun!

Reply #24 –
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btw, do people in the USA buy what George Bush says?

About as many as do in the UK.