AFAIK most wireless headphones (Blutooth, IR, etc.) incorporate lossy codecs for transmitter-receiver transport, are there any which do that losslessly at 44.1kHz/16bit at least?
I don't think they are still in production, but the Sennheiser MX W1 was said to have "Lossless sound transmission (CD quality)" using KLEER technology. Also the TDK WR700 fit the same description, I believe, but are a different style and more affordable.
AFAIK most wireless headphones (Blutooth, IR, etc.) incorporate lossy codecs for transmitter-receiver transport, are there any which do that losslessly at 44.1kHz/16bit at least?
You could just send an uncompressed stream digitally. AFAIK lossless compression will run into some latency/compression tradeoffs.
Sennheiser RS 160/180/220 (http://en-de.sennheiser.com/wireless-tv-headphones) for home use, all using Kleer technology.
I guess there's no chance for something at 50$ / 40 euro price tag?
You could just send an uncompressed stream digitally. AFAIK lossless compression will run into some latency/compression tradeoffs.
Latency would be bad - I want it for working in DAW which already has its own latency. Hopefully KLEER streams it uncompressed.
I got the RS160 and RS170. Basically they're the same headphones with different transmitters and functions. I find myself using the RS160 more even though the 170 has a charging dock, cause apparently the 170 is too "smart" for its own good and applies an automatic volume limiter.
I don't know how much latency you're willing to put up with, but for watching video it's negligible. For instruments though it's pretty much unusable (tried with my electric guitar).
Sennheiser RS 160/180/220 (http://en-de.sennheiser.com/wireless-tv-headphones) for home use, all using Kleer technology.
Are you sure the 220 is Kleer? It's a newer model, I think it came out after Kleer products in general dropped from the face of the earth.
I don't know about the RS 170 (is there such a model?) but Automatic Level Control (ALC) can be deactivated on the RS 180 with the second button from the bottom on the dock. As for the RS 220, the manual says it uses "uncompressed" 16 bit, 48 kHz PCM.
Android + Soundwire app and use any headphone you like.
I don't know how much latency you're willing to put up with, but for watching video it's negligible. For instruments though it's pretty much unusable (tried with my electric guitar).
You mean that plugging them straight into amp without any route through computer/software already gives unusable latency?
That's what I did, and there was noticeable latency.
I don't know about the RS 170 (is there such a model?) but Automatic Level Control (ALC) can be deactivated on the RS 180 with the second button from the bottom on the dock. As for the RS 220, the manual says it uses "uncompressed" 16 bit, 48 kHz PCM.
Yeah, I was all over Kleer at the time. The 160, 170 and 180 came out at the same time, the 180 was the flagship. The 220 came much later, and the 170 was discontinued. The 220 has no mention of Kleer, which may be important because with Kleer you can mix and match and even use up to 4 headphones with one transmitter. It's a shame there's no more standards like that. Kleernet is supposed to be out there with even better features, but only one headphone that I know of is using it, and it's a fugly gaming headset.
About the volume, it was not ALC, it seems it was some sort of distortion protection which seemed too trigger-happy to me. Not really a deal breaker, but since I already had the 160 I just use that.
for budget wireless i would go for the sony wireless rf810 headphones http://www.shoppingway.co.uk/sony-wireless...hones-mdr-rf810 (http://www.shoppingway.co.uk/sony-wireless-headphones-mdr-rf810)
• Transmission type: FM stereo
Does it mean that transmission is analogue, hence no lossy compression?
...or is it just spam?
The transmission is analog, but it doesn't mean it's not lossy. You'll likely hear some, maybe a lot, of noise and interference. It's very old tech.
I also wondered if it was spam though.
is the Sennheiser rs220 not digital !!!!
the rs170 rs160 rs120 maybe discontinued but are widely still available on all leading ecommerce websites
The RS120 is also not digital.
I'm more afraid of psy-model artifacts than noise or interference in this case. At the end I can always use wired headphones or speakers, so analog transmission could do for what I want it for.
Android + Soundwire app and use any headphone you like.
There's no Android at home except that baby-tablet of my son, but that would be inconvenient.
The RS120 is also not digital.
Not only that, but it has a fair number of clearly audible artifacts related to its use of analog 900 MHz transmission.
The later true digital models are IME vastly improved.
Android + Soundwire app and use any headphone you like.
There's no Android at home except that baby-tablet of my son, but that would be inconvenient.
I agree, considering you can find a used android for 20-30 EUR using your sons tablet would be very inconvenient.
I doubt the Android solution would be less laggy than the Kleer headphones, which are just laggy enough to not be usable with instruments, but OK for everything else including games.
The RS120 is also not digital.
Not only that, but it has a fair number of clearly audible artifacts related to its use of analog 900 MHz transmission.
The later true digital models are IME vastly improved.
Do you have any experience with IR headphones? I never took them too seriously but only for TV watching, but if you have line of sight and don't have to be too far from the source, could they produce less hiss or more fidelity than the RF headphones?
The RS120 is also not digital.
Not only that, but it has a fair number of clearly audible artifacts related to its use of analog 900 MHz transmission.
The later true digital models are IME vastly improved.
Do you have any experience with IR headphones? I never took them too seriously but only for TV watching, but if you have line of sight and don't have to be too far from the source, could they produce less hiss or more fidelity than the RF headphones?
IR headphones like RF headphones can be based on analog or digital transport processes. One the basic link has been established digitally, then there is really no reason why one would be better than the other.
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence related to the relative convenience of IR versus RF, and it appears that RF is generally the preferred choice. The third choice is the inductive link.
I doubt the Android solution would be less laggy than the Kleer headphones, which are just laggy enough to not be usable with instruments, but OK for everything else including games.
I agree that my Kleer headphones (RS 140 and RS 160) have clearly audible latency.
IR headphones like RF headphones can be based on analog or digital transport processes. One the basic link has been established digitally, then there is really no reason why one would be better than the other.
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence related to the relative convenience of IR versus RF, and it appears that RF is generally the preferred choice. The third choice is the inductive link.
I was talking about the analog ones though. I haven't seen digitally linked IR headphones. I've been thinking about buying one of these cause they presumably have no noticeable lag. I do remember using an old Sony IR set for guitar playing more than a decade ago.
I agree that my Kleer headphones (RS 140 and RS 160) have clearly audible latency.
I think the RS140 is analog, are you sure it also gives you this latency? I thought analogs were less likely, if so, I'd probably go with a cheap IR set.
My father was using IR headphones about a decade ago for watching TV, I don't know what was the transport (analog I guess) and I don't remember anything quality-related, but they had annoying line of sight issues - it was enough for someone to walk between him and the TV and there was terrible static.
Yeah, that's their weakness, I've had a couple of them in the past. I only need them for guitar playing without reason to be far from the amp or not have line of sight.
There are personal stage monitor systems that use the wifi band for transmission now. But they're not exactly cheap.
IR headphones like RF headphones can be based on analog or digital transport processes. One the basic link has been established digitally, then there is really no reason why one would be better than the other.
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence related to the relative convenience of IR versus RF, and it appears that RF is generally the preferred choice. The third choice is the inductive link.
I was talking about the analog ones though. I haven't seen digitally linked IR headphones. I've been thinking about buying one of these cause they presumably have no noticeable lag. I do remember using an old Sony IR set for guitar playing more than a decade ago.
I agree that my Kleer headphones (RS 140 and RS 160) have clearly audible latency.
I think the RS140 is analog, are you sure it also gives you this latency? I thought analogs were less likely, if so, I'd probably go with a cheap IR set.
I'm lost in numeric soup again. I was off by 20 in the model number. My Kleer headphones were the RS160 and is now the RS170.
The RS 170 tower is unstable and was pretty unusable until I Velcroed it down.
I did a lil of research and Sony MDR-RF810RK feature-wise indeed seemed like being the best for the price I was aiming at, so I purchased them. Well, there is hiss, trebles seem over-saturated and the bass is weak, there are occasional RF artifacts and I suspect there is some kind of terrible limiter. All the bad things you mentioned
I can't say I'm satisfied, I'll give them a chance for a day or two but as for now I'm going to return them...
And what about some RF headphones with pluggable cable in that price range? In such case I would expect good characteristics on cable. RF mode may be crap. Can anybody recommend some?
What kind of DAW are you using that you need wireless for?
I did a lil of research and Sony MDR-RF810RK feature-wise indeed seemed like being the best for the price I was aiming at, so I purchased them. Well, there is hiss, trebles seem over-saturated and the bass is weak, there are occasional RF artifacts and I suspect there is some kind of terrible limiter. All the bad things you mentioned
I can't say I'm satisfied, I'll give them a chance for a day or two but as for now I'm going to return them...
Apparently well known to be based on a FM (analog link). Not exactly lossless transport. FWIW the Sennheiser 900 MHz phones have some of the same problems. FM can be done better than this, as it is also used in some middle-line wireless microphones with far better results.
What kind of DAW are you using that you need wireless for?
Mostly Ableton, but it's not that I need it, it just would be convenient when rolling between instruments and the computer. I've already broken the cable of decent headphones with this chair on wheels.
Apparently well known to be based on a FM (analog link). Not exactly lossless transport. FWIW the Sennheiser 900 MHz phones have some of the same problems. FM can be done better than this, as it is also used in some middle-line wireless microphones with far better results.
I was hoping for something like FM radio quality at least. Seems like there's quite a room for improvement indeed, curious that no company filled this hole yet.