🇺🇦 🕊️ Support the Ukrainian people on Bandcamp Friday

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Re: 🇺🇦 🕊️ Support the Ukrainian people on Bandcamp Friday

Reply #50 – 2022-03-20 09:06:34

@IgorC
You have just shown your total ignorance of what is going on in Ukraine!
Who attacked who?
Who is bombing an independent country?
What is a dictatorship and what is a democracy?
What are free elections to government?
What is free media?

I just think it's about your own conscience.
Who was I when this happened? What did I say, what did I do?
What can I live with?
Over the past 20 years, the Putin regime has in many ways "abolished the people."
There is really no "Russian people" and "what do the Russian people think?".
He has put it down. He has abolished the free choices, he has taken away the free ones,
independent media and imprisoned or chased away the opposition.
Instead, there is only an empty landscape.
No leaders to gather around and no media to spread the message.
If one is to be able to bring about any change, then one must reinvent the Russian people.
And no one knows how it will happen.
It pains me that people die, that people lose roofs over their heads or are forced to abandon their homes.
We may not be in the epicenter of the military conflict,
but we can not remain indifferent to this global catastrophe.

Did you last see the speech to the Russian nation Putin made?
Then he sat there again at his desk.
The white corded telephones on the left side, a TV screen on wheels diagonally in front of it.
This time he was not angry. He was clearly frustrated.

One would think that Vladimir Putin wanted to signal strength and self-confidence to the home crowd,
that he, as the person responsible for the war of aggression against Ukraine, has control over the development.
After all, Putin dictates the information in Russia.
Anyone who deviates from propaganda can be sentenced to 15 years in prison.
The Kremlin has every opportunity to shape the story of how the "special military operation" continues.

Still, this was not what either the Russian citizens or the outside world saw on Wednesday.
Instead, a tyrant appeared who was in control of the development.
He said rising unemployment and inflation await.
He warned of profound structural changes in the country's economy.
He did not signal self-confidence but a state of vulnerability: Russia is in a marked economic "flash war", Putin said.
Self-pity was close at hand when he complained that the Western world was trying to exclude Russia and its culture.
There is only one goal of Western policy, according to Putin, and that is to ruin Russia.
As a consequence, the Kremlin demands total obedience and loyalty from every citizen in the fight against the external enemy.
Or as Putin himself summed it up in a spirit that Stalin had appreciated:
"The Russian people will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and simply spit them out like a fly that accidentally flew into their mouths."

When the Russian dictator's speech was captured this week, the international reactions, as so often, were dominated by shock and resentment.
Is he crazy? Is Putin derailing? What should this end with?
The problem with those questions is that they lead the thought wrong.
They are based on the fact that the Russian president is like other leaders in Europe and the United States.
In fact, it's easier to decode Putin's litany if you start from the person he is: a gangster with enormous claims to power, recognition and a place in history.
A man who in order to be able to defend and motivate his own position constantly needs internal and external enemies.
Putin's rhetoric is extreme, but nothing that should surprise those who have listened for a long time.
The enemy images are familiar. If anything felt new on Wednesday,
it was the feeling that the heavy setbacks on the battlefield and in the domestic economy had eaten into Putin's head.

In the end, the illusions are shattered, and then Putin relapses into the military tactics he used in Chechnya and Syria: indiscriminate warfare.
When he does not get the welcome he expects in Ukraine, his military instead devotes itself to destroying as much as it can.
In the port city of Mariupol, “airstrikes and grenades have hit the children's hospital, the fire brigade, housing, a church, an area outside a school.
For the estimated hundreds of thousands who remain, there is simply nowhere to go, "report two journalists from the news agency AP,
who have been in the city during the past three weeks of war. They have documented the chaos and despair.

Putin's fantasies about a new Russian empire will be carried through.
And it can happen at the cost of basing the new sphere of power on ruins that cover Russian-speaking women and children, victims of the Kremlin bombing.
Can this hell end? The Finnish diplomat René Nyberg, who has been stationed in both Moscow and Berlin,
recently recalled a significant quote from Stalin regarding cold calculus. In a conversation during World War II with British Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden,
the Soviet tyrant pointed out that Hitler is a genius, but that the Führer does not know when it's time to quit.
Eden then answered, "Who knows?"
Stalin quickly countered: "I know."

No one should be surprised if Putin hardens before he softens, that under pressure he chooses to escalate militarily and raise the tone.
He knows that everyone, including the Russian regime, is terrified of nuclear weapons.
The purpose is to be intimidated to the maximum and make the outside world back off.
But the rustling and splashing is not a sign of strength but of weakness.
The Putin regime can lie as much as it wants, but it can not revive its dead soldiers or pretend to pay salaries from a treasury that is running out.
Reality strikes, even if it happens at an awful price. Sooner or later, Putin will have to adapt, either voluntarily or under duress.
The biggest price for what is going on now is not paid by Russia but by Ukraine.
The country is not just defending itself against a ruthless attack reminiscent of World War II.
President Zelensky and his countrymen are holding the border for all of us. Ukraine is sacrificing itself for Europe's democracies.
If Western leaders believe that world peace is jeopardized by active military participation,
everything else should be done to help Ukraine defeat the Russian military.
It is in our own interest.
If Putin wins in Ukraine, he will not stay there.
This is also our war, without us wanting it.

Re: 🇺🇦 🕊️ Support the Ukrainian people on Bandcamp Friday

Reply #51 – 2022-03-20 10:45:21

Well at least I tried to assume good faith. And just to get this brazen lie from the Ministry of Truth:

Quote from: IgorC on 2022-03-20 01:24:37

What is all obsession about Zelensky and the fact that he is Jew? Even Ukranians admit that Zelensky has no power, so he is not target anyway for denazification/demilitarization.

For "new" readers: Zelensky is the president of Ukraine.
Whom Putin demanded overthrown until only a couple of weeks ago, when it turned out that Putin's SS-tattooed militia had failed their assassination mission.

But hey, a week and a half is long enough to rewrite the "we've always been at war with". To erase how the war machine decried the 'hysteria' of intelligence reports that they were even preparing a war - while Kremlin TV was took footage from an old Finnish military exercise, replaced the sound, and claimed it to be an attack on ... on their mercenaries in Ukraine (well they never had such, but he that controls the past, controls the future): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/21/dumb-and-lazy-the-flawed-films-of-ukrainian-attacks-made-by-russias-fake-factory

Quote

Russia gov doesn't block foreign media.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/03/russian-liberal-radio-mainstay-ekho-moskvy-closes-after-pulled-off-the-air-a76730
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/16/russia-blocks-access-to-bbc-vows-more-media-retaliation-a76964
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/07/over-150-journalists-flee-russia-amid-wartime-crackdown-on-free-press-reports-a76809
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/08/russia-to-broadcast-state-run-sputnik-radio-on-banned-liberal-stations-frequency-a76826

Oh, and even before the recent crackdown on free speech, the situation was as the following map: https://rsf.org/en/ranking/2021
Russia on 150th out of 180, even way after the racist dictatorship of Myanmar.

To better understand what is going on:
* Putin famously misses the glorious Soviet Union: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/22931#sel=9:10:3VX,9:43:3Ux
* This year: "Modern-day Ukraine was in full and in whole created by Russia, Bolshevik, Communist Russia to be precise,"
Yep, Lenin -> Stalin -> Putin; he does not even pretend to hide it, he embraces it.
* Haaretz about how Putin's retorics mirrors Mein Kampf: https://archive.is/UYAvK

Re: 🇺🇦 🕊️ Support the Ukrainian people on Bandcamp Friday

Reply #52 – 2022-03-20 11:59:22

Those who recur to violence are people who ran out of convincing arguments.

War is a refuge of incompetent powers.

War and violence polarize people and societies and cause more hate making it more difficult to find a win-win solution.

Sad there are people who support war or any kind of violence.

Re: 🇺🇦 🕊️ Support the Ukrainian people on Bandcamp Friday

Reply #53 – 2022-03-20 12:23:28

Ok lets go with political shit.
Ukraine has long tradition of as IgorC put it "ultranationalists". Here in Poland we know them as UPA. In WWII they were "pacifying" polish eastern villages with atrocities unseen in the most primitive tribes anywhere in the world. You can google for rzeź wołyńska (wolyn slaughter) - GRAPHIC WARNING, also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
Thousands of people were slaughtered with most barbaric tortures - pregnant women having their wombs open alive, breasts amputated, fetuses ripped out, children nailed to trees, impaled on fence poles, smashed at walls... Yes, these are your poor ukrainian heroes who never admitted the genocide or said "we're sorry". They worship the leader of all that - Stepan Bandera, as main national hero.

To make things straight, I'm not pro Russia. Here in Poland there's not many countries we might have reasons to hate more than Russia - it does have its great share of atrocities too (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre to name one - tens of thousands of polish elite killed in death camp). But lets not paint the world black & white where it's not ok? Ukraine is as corrupted as Russia, led by oligarchs, with huge human and children trafficking businesses, paedophilia business etc. Remember that 30 years ago Ukraine was CCCP.

Cold logic view at the situation? USA as a nuclear superpower could do the slaughter in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. when it had business in doing so or felt threatened. Russia as a nuclear superpower does the same now because NATO wants to bring its rockets too close and Ukrainian minion started to bite. Of course there are other powers at play too (like China and the general eastern vs western powerplay). Are there good or bad guys? No they are all bad.

Here in Poland it's an ambivalent situation. NATO is our guarantee of safety and Ukraine is the only thing between us and berserk Russia. Polish gov supports Ukraine to an extent that they're more privileged now than polish citizens (and there's over a million of refugees here already). But polish citizens do know very well and remember ukrainian monstrosities, you never made us forgive, and it seems that the monsters are still there...

Re: 🇺🇦 🕊️ Support the Ukrainian people on Bandcamp Friday

Reply #54 – 2022-03-20 13:41:40

@rutra80
Is this your way of saying that Putin's aggression against Ukraine is legitimate?

Re: 🇺🇦 🕊️ Support the Ukrainian people on Bandcamp Friday

Reply #55 – 2022-03-20 14:49:11

Quote from: redorb on 2022-03-20 13:41:40

@rutra80
Is this your way of saying that Putin's aggression against Ukraine is legitimate?

@rutra80
This is so nasty:
"Here in Poland it's an ambivalent situation.
NATO is our guarantee of safety and Ukraine is the only thing between us and berserk Russia.
Polish gov supports Ukraine to an extent that they're more privileged now than polish citizens (and there's over a million of refugees here already).
But polish citizens do know very well and remember ukrainian monstrosities, you never made us forgive, and it seems that the monsters are still there..."

Now we know who you are and what you stand for.

Re: 🇺🇦 🕊️ Support the Ukrainian people on Bandcamp Friday

Reply #56 – 2022-03-20 15:02:23

The discussion has drifted away from the original thread topic and inappropriate for the General Music Discussion board.
Discussion closed.

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