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Topic: CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe (Read 16115 times) previous topic - next topic
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CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #50 –
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Oh, one more thing.... The law says that it is illegal to crack an effective protection.

do they actually use the word effective? Because It could be argued that the existence of methods to circumvent the protection renders them ineffective... 
Hip-hop looks like it's having more fun than you are - Chuck D

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #51 –
Quote
Quote
Oh, one more thing.... The law says that it is illegal to crack an effective protection.

do they actually use the word effective? Because It could be argued that the existence of methods to circumvent the protection renders them ineffective... 

The original text goes like this:
Quote
"Das Gesetz unterscheidet nicht zwischen analogen und digitalen Träger- oder Aufnahmemedien. Verboten ist das Umgehen eines wirksamen Kopierschutzes."

The word "wirksam" means "effective".

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #52 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
Oh, one more thing.... The law says that it is illegal to crack an effective protection.

do they actually use the word effective? Because It could be argued that the existence of methods to circumvent the protection renders them ineffective... 

The original text goes like this:
Quote
"Das Gesetz unterscheidet nicht zwischen analogen und digitalen Träger- oder Aufnahmemedien. Verboten ist das Umgehen eines wirksamen Kopierschutzes."

The word "wirksam" means "effective".

What seems strange to me about this: With some drives e.g. CDS200 "protected" disks can be read digitally (=playback or extraction) by any player/ripper. No circumvention ("Umgehen") by software is needed. In cases like this (probably applies to all audio CD protections that exist so far) there are 2 possibilities:

1. The copy protection ("Kopierschutz") is regarded as not effective, so there's no prohibited circumvention

2. Copy protections are regarded as effective by definition, i.e. a company that has invented a copy protection has to claims its effectiveness et voilà - it's "circumvention" is illegal (including hardware and software able to play back / extract "protected" audio unintentionally).

But where would this stop? What if a company prints on a CD case
"This case is an effective copy protection. Do not remove the CD unless you want to put it in a standalone CD/DVD player for playback only. After finishing playback you have to put it back into the case immediately."
...?
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #54 –
Anyway, I am sure that people would be glad to pay for a CD if they know that the CD works good and that the music is worth the money. I was just looking at some CDs at Karstadt (a German store) and noticed that Pink Floyd costs as much as Britney Spears. Also, a single with three or four tracks costs ~7 €. I know that there is a lot of money going out for making videos (making a video-clip costs ~50.000 €), comercials and other stuff, but I am sure that if the CDs would be a bit cheaper, everyone could win. We would buy more CDs and the industry could earn more money.

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #55 –
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Well, I live in Germany and know a lot about this new "Urheberrecht Gesetz". Anyway, here is a list with the known applications, which will be illegal in the future:

[...]

Who's the originator of this list? Is it something official, or just a list you've compiled by yourself?

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #56 –
Quote
But where would this stop? What if a company prints on a CD case
"This case is an effective copy protection. Do not remove the CD unless you want to put it in a standalone CD/DVD player for playback only. After finishing playback you have to put it back into the case immediately."
...?

Oh that would be lovely!  And I think the RIAA chairman should come over and put the CD into my player, and then fetch my coffee and slippers for me.      And since I need the convenience of 200 discs in my car, all ready for play on demand, he'll have to sit in my car with a bog box of CDs and change them in my head unit.  He'll have to be fast, though...I demand gapless playback and instant disc changes.  Perhaps I'll keep a rolled up newspaper in the front seat to hit him against the head with everytime I hear a gap.  If they want to take away my current functionality, it's their responsibility to replace that functionality to my satisfaction.

I agree with your point, though, about the limits of their definitions.  My attitude is as before.  If they don't ever bother me, I will give them ignorance.  If they do bother me, I will give them whatever it takes to protect my freedom.  I refuse to tolerate them.  We are the ones keeping them in business.  We are the ones buying twice as many CDs per month as JoeAverageMusicListener (my personal budget is about 20 CDs per month).  We are the ones who want to rightfully copy the music to our portable devices for our own use.  When they go too far with us it will be the beginning of their demise, and I think it already is.

Artists should not suffer...they can run to all the very deserving indie labels when the big ones fold under the collapsing RIAA umbrella.  Hey, maybe we'll all get better production and mastering out of the deal?   

-=| Forward The Revolution |=-

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #57 –
Quote
Quote
Well, I live in Germany and know a lot about this new "Urheberrecht Gesetz". Anyway, here is a list with the known applications, which will be illegal in the future:

[...]

Who's the originator of this list? Is it something official, or just a list you've compiled by yourself?

I have compiled the list from sources on the Internet. Computer Bild, CHIP Online and other magazines wrote about some programs which will be illegal in Germany (and some other parts of Europe).

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #58 –
CDex isn't European software, it's software of European origin.
It's a project on SourceForge now. Can't be killed, but still can be outlawed (who cares... ).
Not that I'm behind warez, buy software if you like it or try free alternatives.
I have one exception - don't pay for something two times or more. (like the OSes, I've bough TWO of them already)
Hail the M$, creator of Palladium.

BTW, should they even try to outlaw or disable (TCPA) free and open software,
the opposition would be fierce, much more aggressive than against copyrights.
ruxvilti'a

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #59 –
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The original text goes like this:
Quote

"Das Gesetz unterscheidet nicht zwischen analogen und digitalen Träger- oder Aufnahmemedien. Verboten ist das Umgehen eines wirksamen Kopierschutzes."

The word "wirksam" means "effective".

The reason I ask is (at least in English language and law) the word "effective" is a synonym for "completely successful" as in "effective prosecution"... 

So AFAIK if translated and passed by the UK parliament in that wording it would mean absolutely nothing, as the copy protection is not completely successful in protecting the data from being copied.   

(just a clarification for those who don't see the funny side to an otherwise dark situation)
Hip-hop looks like it's having more fun than you are - Chuck D
 

CDRippers could be a thing of the past...in europe

Reply #60 –
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CDex isn't European software, it's software of European origin.
It's a project on SourceForge now. Can't be killed, but still can be outlawed (who cares... ).

Worst thing that can happen to CDex is that Faber can be forbidden of working on it.

Then, he just hands project ownership to someone else, drops from the scene and things get rolling again. :B