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Topic: Replaygain questions... (Read 6090 times) previous topic - next topic
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Replaygain questions...

1. Does applying replaygain compromise the accuracy of a lossless image file of a disc ?
2. Is it even possible to add replay gain to an image file? Isn't it just album gain at that point?
3. Does applying album gain degrade/compromise the accuracy of a lossless image file?
4. So what adding replaygain tags does is calculate the gain/peaks (is it an average?) of each song and/or the album so that you can set a particular gain increase within your software player, right (i.e., bring all tracks up by 6 db's)?
5. Can I also have the software player set all tracks to a specific decibal rating (lets say 0.0 db)?
6. Itunes doesn't recognize replaygain, correct?  If it doesn't, then I guess my Shuffle wouldn't either, right? 

That's all I can think of for right now.  Thank you if you can provide even just one answer.

Replaygain questions...

Reply #1 –
Quote
1. Does applying replaygain compromise the accuracy of a lossless image file of a disc ?
2. Is it even possible to add replay gain to an image file? Isn't it just album gain at that point?
3. Does applying album gain degrade/compromise the accuracy of a lossless image file?
4. So what adding replaygain tags does is calculate the gain/peaks (is it an average?) of each song and/or the album so that you can set a particular gain increase within your software player, right (i.e., bring all tracks up by 6 db's)?
5. Can I also have the software player set all tracks to a specific decibal rating (lets say 0.0 db)?
6. Itunes doesn't recognize replaygain, correct?  If it doesn't, then I guess my Shuffle wouldn't either, right? 

That's all I can think of for right now.  Thank you if you can provide even just one answer.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=358194"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

1. No
2. Yes / No - depends if you use a cuesheet.
3. No.
4. Correct.  And it makes all tracks as loud as one another.
5. Not to 0.  But you can set them to play back at 92 dB, if you like.  Then again, that's supposing you calibrated your soundcard to a maximum output at a specific decibel amount, and you set your mixer accordingly...
6. Itunes doesn't recognize replaygain, but has its own format.  Foobar2000's foo_pod has the ability to convert replaygain values to apple's format.  Look it up.

The search function might have helped, but this isn't exactly hard to answer, so I do so anyways.
Take care,
Shade.

Replaygain questions...

Reply #2 –
1. No, its just metadata.
2. Album gain is a type of replaygain. Track gain is a type of replaygain. This would be album gain of course becuase its just one big track.
3. No, its just metadata.
4. It calculates the average perceived volume of the entire album or track, and then stores the adjustment needed to make it 89dB.
5. How would it do that without replaygain or similar information?
6. Nope, it does however have its own normalization tag system. Not sure how well it works though. Try MP3Gain or AACGain to adjust the gain on the files directly (instead of just adding tags) so that any and all MP3/AAC players get the benefits of replaygain, irregardless of replaygain compatibility.

Replaygain questions...

Reply #3 –
beat you to it, Jebus

Replaygain questions...

Reply #4 –
damn you!

Replaygain questions...

Reply #5 –
[/quote]
2. Yes / No - depends if you use a cuesheet.
4. Correct.  And it makes all tracks as loud as one another.
[/quote]

2. So, if I don't use a cuesheet, then it isn't possible?
4. So, replaygain does this automatically once enabled?  But then if I want all those tracks to be 96db, then I would have to set a command within my replaygain command or just within the software that is going to play the files?

Thanks for the help.

Replaygain questions...

Reply #6 –
Quote
4. It calculates the average perceived volume of the entire album or track, and then stores the adjustment needed to make it 89dB.
6. Nope, it does however have its own normalization tag system. Not sure how well it works though. Try MP3Gain or AACGain to adjust the gain on the files directly (instead of just adding tags) so that any and all MP3/AAC players get the benefits of replaygain, irregardless of replaygain compatibility.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=358204"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


4. Is 89db's the default or just a random number that you were using as an example?
6. When you say that any and all MP3/AAC players would get the benefit, does this include hardware players?

Thanks for the answers.

Replaygain questions...

Reply #7 –
Quote
4. Is 89db's the default or just a random number that you were using as an example?


Nope that's how replaygain is calibrated. 89 dB SPL. 
budding I.T professional

Replaygain questions...

Reply #8 –
Quote
Quote
4. Is 89db's the default or just a random number that you were using as an example?


Nope that's how replaygain is calibrated. 89 dB SPL. 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=358453"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi I thought that using Replaygain, used a reference of 83dB (http://www.replaygain.org/)?
I am interested in being able to change this "reference level". I find the standard level too quiet for my ears, and have never had any problems with clipping when I used MP3Gain for my old MP3 collection.
I now have the collection in FLAC and want the same "normalisation", so that the few remaining MP3s are level matched when played back randomly.
I use a Squeezebox (V.3) with Smartgain (can interpret whether a playlist comes from an album - and therefore uses album gain values, or from various albums - and uses track gain values)
Can anyone advise if the reference level can be changed?

Thanks
Nic

Replaygain questions...

Reply #9 –
AFAIK all replaygain implementations use the same reference level.  Applications can then choose to adjust the gain differently (some older software used 83, but people complained that it was too quiet, so now 89 is most often defaulted).

Replaygain questions...

Reply #10 –
MediaJukebox/MediaCenter used 83 dB reference in the past and are maybe still using it (I don't know).
To increase the target loudness, you should use pre-amp (software like foobar2000 have a +/- 12 dB one) and not tweaking yourself the scanner reference.

(as a sidenote, 89 dB is too high with several classical music recording, and bring clipping; on the other side, 89 dB is often perceived as too quiet with modern and compressed recordings)

Replaygain questions...

Reply #11 –
Quote
6. When you say that any and all MP3/AAC players would get the benefit, does this include hardware players?


Correct

Replaygain questions...

Reply #12 –
Quote
(as a sidenote, 89 dB is too high with several classical music recording, and bring clipping; on the other side, 89 dB is often perceived as too quiet with modern and compressed recordings)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365171"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I used to think that 89 dB was too quiet until I discovered my volume button/knob/dial.... 

Replaygain questions...

Reply #13 –
The thing with the target-dB level is that its a tradeoff between efficiency(equalize loudness) and comfort(less need to turn up volume via volume-knob).

The lower the target, the more tracks/albums can be equalized in loudness without clipping. Someone already mentioned an example: 89dB is more than quiet enough for compressed music, but with classical music, the tracks/albums need to be scaled down a bit, thus making then NOT equally loud.

So, in a perfect world, 83dB should be used. But we're not living in a perfect world and 83dB would annoy too many people and therefore make replaygain unattractive. So a middle-way was agreed upon: 89dB.... its quite enough for dynamic music most of the time(but not always) and its loud enough to not sound too quiet.

Conclusion: if you can use a volume-knob which can amplify sufficiently, then do NOT increase the target (during playback, not analyzing) above 89dB - the price will be higher chance of some tracks/albums not being equally loud.

As for me, i even use a -4dB preamp at playback (thus loweing the target to 85dB) because i am mostly concerned about equal loudness and own dynamic music - my amp has more than enough power to drive the volume above what's healthy.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Replaygain questions...

Reply #14 –
Quote
Quote
(as a sidenote, 89 dB is too high with several classical music recording, and bring clipping; on the other side, 89 dB is often perceived as too quiet with modern and compressed recordings)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365171"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I used to think that 89 dB was too quiet until I discovered my volume button/knob/dial.... 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365188"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What about your DAP?

89 is too quiet for modern music on systems with no preamp (such as a DAP)
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

Replaygain questions...

Reply #15 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
(as a sidenote, 89 dB is too high with several classical music recording, and bring clipping; on the other side, 89 dB is often perceived as too quiet with modern and compressed recordings)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365171"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I used to think that 89 dB was too quiet until I discovered my volume button/knob/dial.... 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365188"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What about your DAP?

89 is too quiet for modern music on systems with no preamp (such as a DAP)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365218"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Actually, my iRiver handles 89 dB quite well.  I'm still only at 50% max volume for most of my music.  I can't speak for other DAP's, though, so your point is well taken.  It really is a personal preference.

Replaygain questions...

Reply #16 –
I agree. I've found 89db can be loud enough with DAPs (have Neuros and ipod 5g) if you use headphones. But from a DAP into the home stereo or car, I really have to crank the volume very high. For loud rocking out, the volume knob is usually at max, and I feel a little disappointed because I know that the system itself can go much louder, but just not with the 89db source.

Replaygain questions...

Reply #17 –
Quote
6. Nope, it does however have its own normalization tag system. Not sure how well it works though. Try MP3Gain or AACGain to adjust the gain on the files directly (instead of just adding tags) so that any and all MP3/AAC players get the benefits of replaygain, irregardless of replaygain compatibility.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=358204"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Now, adjusting the gain of the files directly rather than with tags would be destructive, right (i.e., something that can't be undone)?
 

Replaygain questions...

Reply #18 –
Quote
Quote
6. Nope, it does however have its own normalization tag system. Not sure how well it works though. Try MP3Gain or AACGain to adjust the gain on the files directly (instead of just adding tags) so that any and all MP3/AAC players get the benefits of replaygain, irregardless of replaygain compatibility.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=358204"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Now, adjusting the gain of the files directly rather than with tags would be destructive, right (i.e., something that can't be undone)?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365892"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


MP3Gain has a feature to store the adjustments made in a tag (APE tag, i believe - *sigh*). Then you can losslessly undo the changes.