Quote from: 2Bdecided on 29 January, 2013, 06:03:27 AMThis looks like one for the list of vinyl that beats the CD issue:http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cali...-4#post-8180551(note - it's only the new vinyl, not the old vinyl).Is there a reason for not putting this new version out on CD or iTunes? Other than finally giving the world the evidence that Vlado Meller has devastating influence on rock music?
This looks like one for the list of vinyl that beats the CD issue:http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cali...-4#post-8180551(note - it's only the new vinyl, not the old vinyl).
In my opinion there's never a reason why a good-sounding master, as found on any LP, shouldn't be put to CD or iTunes. (And I say that as one who likes and purchases vinyl as much or more than digital.)EDIT: I don't mean any LP has a better sounding master than the CD. Poorly-worded perhaps.
And now for something completely different: Is Coldplay’s Mylo Xyloto covered in clipping, or was I imagining it? I have yet to examine any waveforms, but I seem to have noticed a distinct fizziness a couple of times while listening to it, which really doesn’t fit the style (as if clipping ever does, but you know what I mean).
Quote from: db1989 on 29 January, 2013, 12:20:20 PMAnd now for something completely different: Is Coldplay’s Mylo Xyloto covered in clipping, or was I imagining it? I have yet to examine any waveforms, but I seem to have noticed a distinct fizziness a couple of times while listening to it, which really doesn’t fit the style (as if clipping ever does, but you know what I mean).If I remember correctly, "Parachutes" was pretty badly mastered [...]
Pleade define 'bad'?
I did a quick scan on my mp3 version of the album (Lame -V4, I have the CD at home if you're curious):Replaygain = -8.64 dB (foobar v1.1.7 so AFAIK that is with the 'new' replaygain scanner)Dynamic Range = DR8Both values are not that bad for a modern master...
Quote from: bug80 on 30 January, 2013, 08:31:17 AMPleade define 'bad'?Excessive use of filters (reverb/chorus/etc.), DRC and clipping.Quote from: bug80 on 30 January, 2013, 08:31:17 AMI did a quick scan on my mp3 version of the album (Lame -V4, I have the CD at home if you're curious):Replaygain = -8.64 dB (foobar v1.1.7 so AFAIK that is with the 'new' replaygain scanner)Dynamic Range = DR8Both values are not that bad for a modern master...I might have remembered incorrectly, do you have "A Rush of Blood" at hand?
I don't listen to Coldplay, but my wife has a lot of their albums.
...except in extreme circumstances (eg. perhaps the cannon shots in the 1812 overture) there can be no excuse for any clipping whatsoever.
I think sometimes it's the artists themselves who choose the clipped mixes.
Quote from: Engelsstaub on 31 January, 2013, 06:16:25 AMI think sometimes it's the artists themselves who choose the clipped mixes.I think they could be less likely to if they listened with loudness matching enabled. (SoundCheck in iTunes, ReplayGain in foobar2k and various other places).Without it, people usually prefer the louder one in an A/B test, even if its worse.Whereas, of course, just given one of A or B, a consumer sets their volume control to whatever level they want to listen at, and any loudness advantage of the clipped mix is lost - they just get the clipping.Cheers,David.
Well, that's the nice thing about Spotify; it also has some kind of replaygain built-in.
BTW, I would be curious to see these 'clipping analyzer' results for What's the Story Morning Glory... that is definitely the worst sounding album in my CD collection. No dynamics and clipping all over the place.
How did you generate those graphs?
Quote from: bug80 on 31 January, 2013, 07:37:52 AMWell, that's the nice thing about Spotify; it also has some kind of replaygain built-in.I read somewhere that it is just ReplayGain. I know I should know, but I don't. You get no automatic say or royalties in the use of free software and public domain ideas!
If you haven't seen it already, read and weep: http://www.oasis-recordinginfo.co.uk/?page_id=6
You can have very low DR numbers without clipping, and even without compression, if the music isn't very dynamic.
Talking of clipping and distortion: Emeli Sandé - My Kind of Love - WHY?!
Coldplay - A rush of blood to the head (EAC rip to WAV)Album gain: -8.75 dBDynamic Range: DR7Again, not very shocking for a modern pop record. However, my evaluation copy of Wave Repair finds 359 'clippings' in the first track. That is more than 1 per second, on average!Oasis - What's the stoy, morning glory? (EAC rip to WAV)Album gain: -12.45 dB (!)Dynamic range: DR5 (!)Now we're talking. These values are really bad and explain the squashed sound. Suprisingly, Wave Repair does not find clipping in the first track!! So, we probably are listening to analog clipping in hardware like EQs and limiters. cliveb, what do you think?** Just to add: The least dynamic track on the Oasis' album is the closer, Champagne Supernova. Replaygain: -12.63 dB, Dynamic Range: DR3 (wow!). But also in this song Wave Repair finds no clippings **
Just because a waveform visibly clips doesn't automatically mean it sounds bad...after all, this is HA, right? Clipping, and its potential audibility, is always a matter of degree, whether in the "classic" sense of hitting the input to an A/D hard enough to produce overs, or in the more "modern" sense of utilizing a digital brickwall limiter. I've heard plenty of albums that have visible clipping throughout, but sound great (Aimee Mann's "Lost in Space" is a favorite example of mine). It's all a matter of the decisions made by the artist/producer/mixer/mastering engineer. Just because something *can* be misused and abused, and frequently is, doesn't mean it *has* to be.
It's interesting that Oasis's "Morning Glory" album was mentioned - I absolutely love the sound of that album. I think it's the perfect representation of *that* music being played by *that* band. Would the same production and mixing have worked for, say, Radiohead? Of course not, and vice versa. The sound on "Morning Glory" strikes me as a great example of Olde Skool analog production methods and equipment being used to great effect. It always makes me think of standing in a small rehearsal space with a good rock band going full tilt. It's just this huge mass of sound - DR0! - and the visceral impact is literally breathtaking.
Glad people here found the Owen Morris interview of interest! I was lucky to get in contact with him and he was very generous in providing info for my site on the recording, mixing and mastering of Oasis's early albums.The Dynamic Range Database features several relevant entries on the subject of the mastering, which show the possibility of more dynamic masterings of the Oasis catalogue. Here's one example... the very rare Stop the Clocks instrumental promo CD: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=9057
If you search by Oasis and click to order the results by descending DR there are a number of other similar entries relating to their earlier recordings from 1994-6.
Also some of the earlier singles are less heavily compressed than the album versions of the same tracks. The Supersonic and Some Might Say singles spring to mind (the latter was mastered at Abbey Road and has greater dynamics than the album version).
QuoteIf you search by Oasis and click to order the results by descending DR there are a number of other similar entries relating to their earlier recordings from 1994-6.http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?...&order=desc Someone has had great fun uploading data to that list.
It's good that a site like this exists, although IMHO the quality ratings are too strict, I think. To me, some modern music styles sound fine with a DR7 value (which, according to this website is 'bad'). In fact, those styles will sound thin/weak/not in your face/etc with DR14+ values, which according to this site are "good" values.