Unlike tiny pocketable players like Sansa Clip and similar it has a wide soundstage and is really enjoyable to listen to.
Quote from: Takla on 03 August, 2012, 05:49:58 PMUnlike tiny pocketable players like Sansa Clip and similar it has a wide soundstage and is really enjoyable to listen to.Qualify this claim please.
If it happens in then Sandisk firmware too, then yeah theres probably no easy fix. That said, it might be possible to work around the issue like we did with the pitch error in the sandisk firmware. I'd be interested to see what recordings of the noise look like.FWIW on my Clip+ there is a bit of background noise, but I can only really see it on a scope, since at +6dB volume, its only a few mV (and it does scale with volume). It sounds like theres a batch of players out there that are much more susceptible to this background noise. Interestingly when the DAC is powered off it doesn't entirely go away (but gets much, much weaker), so I tend to think its power supply noise being amplified by headphone amp.
I don't know why this has festered for 18 months(!!!) such that it forms the basis of your response but never mind.
It's hard to think this is unrelated to the Clip+ having noticeably poor measurements for crosstalk/signal leakage and mediocre measurements for IMD, though of course it might be just a bad batch, or imaginary.
I won't become extremely upset on being asked to explain why I find the Clip+ good but not fantastic.
Qualify this claim please.I've not noticed any problems with sound stage on the Sansa Clip, and I really enjoy listening to it quite a bit.
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/sansa-clip-measured.htmlThe clip has extremely good measurements for all of those things, so yes, its probably unrelated. If you believe otherwise, feel free to support your claims with suitable double blind tests.
OTHER ASSORTED RESULTS: The channel balance was within 0.20 dB (inaudible) on the Clip+ and iPod. The channel separation was about 50 dB on the Clip+ and 60 dB on the iPod (both loaded with 15 ohms). I'm not sure the extra 10 dB advantage to the iPod is audible but it might be. The Clip is handicapped by it's extremely small size. Physical separation of the left and right audio circuitry is a key design technique to increase channel separation. Sandisk clearly didn't have as much space to work with as Apple did. I suspect the tiny Shuffle performs similarly or even worse.
Not true. nwaguy's RMAA results in that article show that the Clip's crosstalk measurements are in fact obviously bad, not extremely good.
Sound quality is really nice, at least as good as my ancient iRiver H140 and H340 but without their hiss and occasional disk access ticks and crackles. Unlike tiny pocketable players like Sansa Clip and similar it has a wide soundstage and is really enjoyable to listen to.
It is also performs poorly in terms of intermodulation distortion+noise.
Again, 0.03% IMD is below the audible threshold. Note, unlike most RMAA IMD results, you can actually see what happens at higher frequencies here. There's a different sort of ultrasonic hash here from the THD measurement. You can clearly see the interaction of the two tones creating "pairs" of harmonics. You can also see the 44 Khz sampling carrier leaking through. Note the IMD reading is lower than the THD reading due to the way IMD distortion is calculated from the predicted side bands. I'm not sure how RMAA calculates IMD, but it's often inconsistent with the results from real audio analyzers.
I thought that was overall an excellent test and a good article and my only reservation was that while acknowledging some deficiencies (nwaguy absolutely does not claim "extremely good measurements for all of those things"! )
As it happens the most obvious measurable shortcomings tie in precisely with the perception of narrow soundstage/poor stereo separation.
A double blind test of Clip vs Archos A43IT? I can identify the Clip+ by the extraneous noises it makes.
The Clip is handicapped by it's extremely small size. Physical separation of the left and right audio circuitry is a key design technique to increase channel separation. Sandisk clearly didn't have as much space to work with as Apple did. I suspect the tiny Shuffle performs similarly or even worse.
J3:Pro's: Overally great. Good screen, good playbackCon's: Same tv-connect as the X7.
Edit: I want the best neutral sound quality as well.