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Topic: Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips (Read 3631 times) previous topic - next topic
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Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Hi

I've ripped some CD (Dazzling Killmen - 'Face of Collapse') and EAC (1.0 beta 3) told me:

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

EAC extraction logfile from 14. January 2012, 23:53

Dazzling Killmen / Face of Collapse

Used drive  : TEAC    CD-W512EB   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 685
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 1024 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\FLAC\flac.exe
Additional command line options : --best --replay-gain -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%"
 -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" %source% -o %dest%


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.32 |  3:18.53 |        32    |    14934   
        2  |  3:19.10 |  5:46.60 |     14935    |    40944   
        3  |  9:05.70 |  1:29.47 |     40945    |    47666   
        4  | 10:35.42 |  5:52.30 |     47667    |    74096   
        5  | 16:27.72 |  2:08.18 |     74097    |    83714   
        6  | 18:36.15 |  4:44.30 |     83715    |   105044   
        7  | 23:20.45 | 13:58.42 |    105045    |   167936   
        8  | 37:19.12 |  4:51.40 |    167937    |   189801   


Track  1

     Filename C:\test\01. Staring Contest.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Extraction speed 4.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 0FE338D9
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [80402B7F], AccurateRip returned [C3CADD86]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\test\02. Bone Fragments.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Extraction speed 7.0 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 3C40F4B7
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [5DDA0B22], AccurateRip returned [7DE2EC1F]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename C:\test\03. My Lacerations.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Extraction speed 6.6 X
     Track quality 99.8 %
     Copy CRC A71AE63D
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [629B1A38], AccurateRip returned [8E3B976A]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  4

     Filename C:\test\04. Blown (Face Down).wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Extraction speed 8.1 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 26B6DEE4
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [7BC5F09A], AccurateRip returned [9D1E9E38]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  5

     Filename C:\test\05. Windshear.wav

     Peak level 97.3 %
     Extraction speed 8.1 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC D1770805
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [EEF8C853], AccurateRip returned [DF4DEAFD]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  6

     Filename C:\test\06. Painless One.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Extraction speed 9.0 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 4391F36C
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 3)  [044C84A4], AccurateRip returned [DF6F945C]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  7

     Filename C:\test\07. In the Face of Collapse.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Extraction speed 9.6 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 6B8E251E
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 3)  [9DEFD13E], AccurateRip returned [9473916D]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  8

     Filename C:\test\08. Agitator.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Extraction speed 9.3 X
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC 1154EE8F
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 3)  [BBC52D17], AccurateRip returned [F096E25B]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK


No tracks could be verified as accurate
You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database

No errors occurred

End of status report

Ok, so probably a different pressing.

Now, CueTools (2.1.2a) reports that:

Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-14 23:55:37; Version: 2.1.2a]
Pregap length 00:00:32.
[CTDB TOCID: bycM8W5OU3i1LW.s8K0tnO.AQpA-] disk not present in database.
CUETools DB: discs with pregaps not supported in this protocol version.
[AccurateRip ID: 000b0ccf-004c57c9-5a09e208] found.
Track   [ CRC    ] Status
 01     [22b9a807] (0/4) No match
 02     [6d926b47] (0/4) No match
 03     [9ae02225] (0/4) No match
 04     [36ad9519] (0/4) No match
 05     [07773ea9] (0/4) No match
 06     [d7b0140b] (0/3) No match
 07     [fdf2c3f4] (0/3) No match
 08     [0b282caf] (0/3) No match
Offsetted by 727:
 01     [c3cadd86] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 02     [7de2ec1f] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 03     [8e3b976a] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 04     [9d1e9e38] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 05     [df4deafd] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 06     [df6f945c] (3/3) Accurately ripped
 07     [9473916d] (3/3) Accurately ripped
 08     [f096e25b] (3/3) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] [  LOG   ]
 --  100,0 [F4F73CDA] [B90D9DAF]           
 01  100,0 [0FE338D9] [230405A6]   CRC32   
 02  100,0 [3C40F4B7] [26C48A99]   CRC32   
 03  100,0 [A71AE63D] [D347C191]   CRC32   
 04  100,0 [26B6DEE4] [CAA60E05]   CRC32   
 05   97,3 [D1770805] [89CCBD65]   CRC32   
 06  100,0 [4391F36C] [44CC54BA]   CRC32   
 07  100,0 [6B8E251E] [50CE7E26]   CRC32   
 08  100,0 [1154EE8F] [29730525]   CRC32

If I undestand correctly it tells me that the different pressing is +727, but overall my rip should be ok. Right?

I've re-ripped the CD using EAC and
a) an external TSSCORPCD/DVDW SH-S182M
b) some Optiarc BD

What is puzzling me is an output from CueTools

a) TSSCORPCD/DVDW SH-S182M

Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-14 23:56:47; Version: 2.1.2a]
Pregap length 00:00:32.
[CTDB TOCID: bycM8W5OU3i1LW.s8K0tnO.AQpA-] disk not present in database.
[AccurateRip ID: 000b0ccf-004c57c9-5a09e208] found.
Track   [ CRC    ] Status
 01     [22b9a807] (0/4) No match
 02     [6d926b47] (0/4) No match
 03     [9ae02225] (0/4) No match
 04     [36ad9519] (0/4) No match
 05     [07773ea9] (0/4) No match
 06     [d7b0140b] (0/3) No match
 07     [fdf2c3f4] (0/3) No match
 08     [0b282caf] (0/3) No match
Offsetted by 727:
 01     [c3cadd86] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 02     [7de2ec1f] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 03     [8e3b976a] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 04     [9d1e9e38] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 05     [df4deafd] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 06     [df6f945c] (3/3) Accurately ripped
 07     [9473916d] (3/3) Accurately ripped
 08     [f096e25b] (3/3) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] 
 --  100,0 [EB9F1908] [4D4CE60D]           
 01  100,0 [0FE338D9] [230405A6]           
 02  100,0 [3C40F4B7] [26C48A99]           
 03  100,0 [A71AE63D] [D347C191]           
 04  100,0 [26B6DEE4] [CAA60E05]           
 05   97,3 [D1770805] [89CCBD65]           
 06  100,0 [4391F36C] [44CC54BA]           
 07  100,0 [6B8E251E] [50CE7E26]           
 08  100,0 [0E3CCB5D] [827C20B2]

b) Optiarc BD

Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-14 23:58:12; Version: 2.1.2a]
Pregap length 00:00:32.
[CTDB TOCID: bycM8W5OU3i1LW.s8K0tnO.AQpA-] disk not present in database.
[AccurateRip ID: 000b0ccf-004c57c9-5a09e208] found.
Track   [ CRC    ] Status
 01     [22b9a807] (0/4) No match
 02     [6d926b47] (0/4) No match
 03     [9ae02225] (0/4) No match
 04     [36ad9519] (0/4) No match
 05     [07773ea9] (0/4) No match
 06     [d7b0140b] (0/3) No match
 07     [fdf2c3f4] (0/3) No match
 08     [0b282caf] (0/3) No match
Offsetted by 727:
 01     [c3cadd86] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 02     [7de2ec1f] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 03     [8e3b976a] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 04     [9d1e9e38] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 05     [df4deafd] (4/4) Accurately ripped
 06     [df6f945c] (3/3) Accurately ripped
 07     [9473916d] (3/3) Accurately ripped
 08     [f096e25b] (3/3) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] 
 --  100,0 [BABF742A] [F3B1BEA4]           
 01  100,0 [0FE338D9] [230405A6]           
 02  100,0 [3C40F4B7] [26C48A99]           
 03  100,0 [A71AE63D] [D347C191]           
 04  100,0 [26B6DEE4] [CAA60E05]           
 05   97,3 [D1770805] [89CCBD65]           
 06  100,0 [4391F36C] [44CC54BA]           
 07  100,0 [6B8E251E] [50CE7E26]           
 08  100,0 [5F1CA67F] [FB6ABD48]

Why CRC32 of the last track is different in every case?

a) TEAC 512EB - 1154EE8F
b) Samsung SH-S182M - 0E3CCB5D
c) Optiarc - 5F1CA67F

Shouldn't that mean that ripped data is different? But why CueTools reports the same result from AccurateRip?

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #1 –
A positive offset correction means your drive normally starts reading from that many samples prior to where it is asked to start. Reads occur in 588-sample chunks addressed as 'sectors' in CD-ROM terms. So your TEAC drive, with its +685 correction, when told to read the last sector of the disc, actually reads starting from near the end of the 3rd-to-last sector until just before the equivalent position in the 2nd-to-last sector. This is what the offset correction is trying to compensate for. If the drive supports overreading into what it believes is the lead-out (what's supposed to be silence after the last track), then EAC tells it to read the first 2 sectors of what the drive thinks is the lead-out, but what's actually the last sector of the program area and the first sector of the lead-out. EAC uses whatever audio data is returned, or if the drive complains, EAC just pretends it got silence. I'm not sure it can be assumed that a drive which returns audio for an overread command is actually returning audio data from the disc, or just its own silence. Since drives vary in capability in this regard, and offsets vary, you can probably understand that you will get different audio data for the very end of the disc (or very beginning) depending on the overread capability and the direction of the offset correction for each drive.

AccurateRip checksums ignore about 5 sectors at each end of the disc, so differences caused by drives that can't overread are irrelevant. So yes, the ripped data is different, but not in the range that AccurateRip cares about.

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #2 –
If I understood correctly Samsung SH-S182M with its +6 sample offset has (theoretical) advantage over TEAC 512EB (+685 sample offset) because it misses only tiny amount of data (filled with silence by default). Right?

Well, too bad that this drive is picky about basically anything :/

One more question - CRC32s will be the same if the last track ends with silence long enough to accomodate both drive offsets?

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #3 –
Quote from: haen on
If I understood correctly Samsung SH-S182M with its +6 sample offset has (theoretical) advantage over TEAC 512EB (+685 sample offset) because it misses only tiny amount of data (filled with silence by default). Right?

Well, too bad that this drive is picky about basically anything.

I don't think there's any advantage. 685 samples is less than 16 milliseconds. Some audio CD's contain faint background noise that has not been faded out before the end of the audio data track, but I have never seen an audio CD with actual program material that would extend to the very end. I'd recommend to just use the drive that performs better.

Quote
One more question - CRC32s will be the same if the last track ends with silence long enough to accomodate both drive offsets?

The "W/O NULL" checksums in the Cuetools logs will be identical. W/O NULL ignores the silent samples.

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Alex B on
Quote from: haen on
If I understood correctly Samsung SH-S182M with its +6 sample offset has (theoretical) advantage over TEAC 512EB (+685 sample offset) because it misses only tiny amount of data (filled with silence by default). Right?

Well, too bad that this drive is picky about basically anything.

I don't think there's any advantage. 685 samples is less than 16 milliseconds. Some audio CD's contain faint background noise that has not been faded out before the end of the audio data track, but I have never seen an audio CD with actual program material that would extend to the very end. I'd recommend to just use the drive that performs better.

Yea, that's why I said theoretical. But hey - it's one step closer to the PerfectRip? ;-). Anyway it's no contest - Samsung drive almost always fails at secure rip (synch errors, awfully slow) and the burst mode consistently gives inconsistent errors.

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #5 –
If the drive can't overread, a 0 offset rip is more complete than one with an offset. At least you get every sample the drive can read. So what's more perfect? A rip that doesn't have any filled-in null samples, or a one with null samples and an accurate offset? Maybe depends on whether there was quiet noise or silence at the very end of the disc.

If your track boundaries are off by n milliseconds...well, the format was designed for CD players which could only navigate to somewhere in the vicinity anyway. The boundaries are not set with precision to begin with. So even on offset-corrected rips, I often have to modify cue sheets to get the track boundaries to match the transition points in uninterrupted audio.

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Alex B on
Quote
One more question - CRC32s will be the same if the last track ends with silence long enough to accomodate both drive offsets?

The "W/O NULL" checksums in the Cuetools logs will be identical.

For each version of a track where the difference is the number of null samples at the end of the track (and hence the number of non-null samples up to the end of the track!) the checksums calculated without null samples will be different.

Answering the original question, yes the CRCs will be the same since null samples will be replaced by null samples.

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #7 –
I was wrong, but not in the way you said (I think...)

I meant that only the "W/O NULL" checksums will be identical, but actually also the CRC32 checksums will be identical because haen has EAC configured to "Fill up missing offset samples with silence" (as required for EAC's Accurate Rip check.)

The original samples are silent on the disc (haen said: "if the last track ends with silence long enough to accomodate both drive offsets") and also the "missing and filled up" samples in the files are silent, so the resulting audio data will be identical in both files.

Here are the logs of a test that I performed with two different machines. I ripped a CD that has about 30.000 silent samples in the end:

A Samsung drive, "Fill up missing offset samples with silence: Yes":

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 5 from 4. May 2009

EAC extraction logfile from 15. January 2012, 20:33

George Michael / Star People '97

Used drive  : TSSTcorpCD/DVDW SH-W162C   Adapter: 3  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Installed external ASPI interface
Gap handling                                : Appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 1024 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\EAC\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m"
-T "Encoding Settings=EAC secure / FLAC 1.2.1b -8" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  5:42.00 |         0    |    25649   
        2  |  5:42.00 |  4:58.07 |     25650    |    48006   
        3  | 10:40.07 |  6:01.43 |     48007    |    75124   


Track  1

     Filename C:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\01 - Star People '97.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Test CRC 01C6C427
     Copy CRC 01C6C427
     Accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [E9E8FF98]
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\02 - Everything She Wants (Unplugged).wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.03

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC E85B15B9
     Copy CRC E85B15B9
     Accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [609353C0]
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename C:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\03 - Star People (Unplugged).wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.60

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC D3DA94C3
     Copy CRC D3DA94C3
     Accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [97861429]
     Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report
Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-15 20:53:46; Version: 2.1.2a]
[CTDB TOCID: cCGq0dr9zVECeB.gCp1oXGpb.xE-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [3e93eb29] (1/1) Accurately ripped
[AccurateRip ID: 0002452e-000790ce-1903e903] found.
Track   [ CRC    ] Status
 01     [e9e8ff98] (08/12) Accurately ripped
 02     [609353c0] (08/13) Accurately ripped
 03     [97861429] (09/15) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by 1698:
 01     [d724359d] (04/12) Accurately ripped
 02     [3552458b] (05/13) Accurately ripped
 03     [5cfc7433] (06/15) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] [  LOG   ]
 --   97.9 [9030838F] [91839CBD]           
 01   97.9 [01C6C427] [D37698B1]   CRC32   
 02   97.9 [E85B15B9] [A78067B3]   CRC32   
 03   97.9 [D3DA94C3] [DAD74F44]   CRC32

A Samsung drive, "Fill up missing offset samples with silence: No":

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 5 from 4. May 2009

EAC extraction logfile from 15. January 2012, 20:45

George Michael / Star People '97

Used drive  : TSSTcorpCD/DVDW SH-W162C   Adapter: 3  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : No
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Installed external ASPI interface
Gap handling                                : Appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 1024 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\EAC\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n"
-T "GENRE=%m" -T "Encoding Settings=EAC secure / FLAC 1.2.1b -8" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  5:42.00 |         0    |    25649   
        2  |  5:42.00 |  4:58.07 |     25650    |    48006   
        3  | 10:40.07 |  6:01.43 |     48007    |    75124   


Track  1

     Filename C:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\01 - Star People '97.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Test CRC 01C6C427
     Copy CRC 01C6C427
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\02 - Everything She Wants (Unplugged).wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.03

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC E85B15B9
     Copy CRC E85B15B9
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename C:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\03 - Star People (Unplugged).wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.60

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 25949495
     Copy CRC 25949495
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

End of status report
Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-15 20:47:07; Version: 2.0.9]
Padded some input files to a frame boundary.
[CTDB TOCID: cCGq0dr9zVECeB.gCp1oXGpb.xE-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [3e93eb29] (1/1) Accurately ripped
[AccurateRip ID: 0002452e-000790ce-1903e903] found.
Track   [ CRC    ] Status
 01     [e9e8ff98] (08/12) Accurately ripped
 02     [609353c0] (08/13) Accurately ripped
 03     [97861429] (09/15) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by 1698:
 01     [d724359d] (04/12) Accurately ripped
 02     [3552458b] (05/13) Accurately ripped
 03     [5cfc7433] (06/15) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] [  LOG   ]
 --   97.9 [9030838F] [91839CBD]           
 01   97.9 [01C6C427] [D37698B1]   CRC32   
 02   97.9 [E85B15B9] [A78067B3]   CRC32   
 03   97.9 [D3DA94C3] [DAD74F44] [25949495]

A Panasonic drive, "Fill up missing offset samples with silence: Yes":

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

EAC extraction logfile from 15. January 2012, 21:28

George Michael / Star People '97

Used drive  : MATSHITADVD-RAM UJ-850S   Adapter: 0  ID: 1

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 102
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 896 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\EAC\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%"
-T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%"
-T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %source% -o %dest%


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  5:42.00 |         0    |    25649   
        2  |  5:42.00 |  4:58.07 |     25650    |    48006   
        3  | 10:40.07 |  6:01.43 |     48007    |    75124   


Track  1

     Filename E:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\01 - Star People '97.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Extraction speed 2.0 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 01C6C427
     Copy CRC 01C6C427
     Accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [E9E8FF98]  (AR v1)
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename E:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\02 - Everything She Wants (unplugged).wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.03

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Extraction speed 2.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC E85B15B9
     Copy CRC E85B15B9
     Accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [609353C0]  (AR v1)
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename E:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\03 - Star People (unplugged).wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.60

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Extraction speed 2.6 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC D3DA94C3
     Copy CRC D3DA94C3
     Accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [97861429]  (AR v1)
     Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.3

[CTDB TOCID: cCGq0dr9zVECeB.gCp1oXGpb.xE-] found, Submit result: cCGq0dr9zVECeB.gCp1oXGpb.xE- has been confirmed
[3e93eb29] (1/1) Accurately ripped
Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-15 20:41:38; Version: 2.0.9]
[CTDB TOCID: cCGq0dr9zVECeB.gCp1oXGpb.xE-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [3e93eb29] (1/1) Accurately ripped
[AccurateRip ID: 0002452e-000790ce-1903e903] found.
Track   [ CRC    ] Status
 01     [e9e8ff98] (08/12) Accurately ripped
 02     [609353c0] (08/13) Accurately ripped
 03     [97861429] (09/15) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by 1698:
 01     [d724359d] (04/12) Accurately ripped
 02     [3552458b] (05/13) Accurately ripped
 03     [5cfc7433] (06/15) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] [  LOG   ]
 --   97.9 [9030838F] [91839CBD]           
 01   97.9 [01C6C427] [D37698B1]   CRC32   
 02   97.9 [E85B15B9] [A78067B3]   CRC32   
 03   97.9 [D3DA94C3] [DAD74F44]   CRC32

A Panasonic drive, "Fill up missing offset samples with silence: No":

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

EAC extraction logfile from 15. January 2012, 22:26

George Michael / Star People '97

Used drive  : MATSHITADVD-RAM UJ-850S   Adapter: 0  ID: 1

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 102
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : No
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 896 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\EAC\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%"
-T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%"
-T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %source% -o %dest%


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  5:42.00 |         0    |    25649   
        2  |  5:42.00 |  4:58.07 |     25650    |    48006   
        3  | 10:40.07 |  6:01.43 |     48007    |    75124   


Track  1

     Filename E:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\01 - Star People '97.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Extraction speed 2.0 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 01C6C427
     Copy CRC 01C6C427
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename E:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\02 - Everything She Wants (unplugged).wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.03

     Peak level 97.9 %
     Extraction speed 2.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC E85B15B9
     Copy CRC E85B15B9
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename E:\Rip\George Michael - Star People '97\03 - Star People (unplugged).wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.60

     Missing samples
     Peak level 97.9 %
     Extraction speed 2.7 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 2FBD736B
     Copy CRC 2FBD736B
     Copy finished

There were errors

End of status report
Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-15 22:30:07; Version: 2.1.2a]
Padded some input files to a frame boundary.
[CTDB TOCID: cCGq0dr9zVECeB.gCp1oXGpb.xE-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [3e93eb29] (2/2) Accurately ripped
[AccurateRip ID: 0002452e-000790ce-1903e903] found.
Track   [ CRC    ] Status
 01     [e9e8ff98] (08/12) Accurately ripped
 02     [609353c0] (08/13) Accurately ripped
 03     [97861429] (09/15) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by 1698:
 01     [d724359d] (04/12) Accurately ripped
 02     [3552458b] (05/13) Accurately ripped
 03     [5cfc7433] (06/15) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] [  LOG   ]
 --   97.9 [9030838F] [91839CBD]           
 01   97.9 [01C6C427] [D37698B1]   CRC32   
 02   97.9 [E85B15B9] [A78067B3]   CRC32   
 03   97.9 [D3DA94C3] [DAD74F44] [2FBD736B]


EDIT
To greynol: I noticed only after posting that you already edited your reply...

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #8 –
Quote from: greynol on
For each version of a track where the difference is the number of null samples at the end of the track (and hence the number of non-null samples up to the end of the track!) the checksums calculated without null samples will be different.

The "W/O NULL" checksum in Cuetools really ignores the silent samples including the number of them.

I created a new album from the last two tracks of my test CD:

Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-16 23:11:41; Version: 2.1.2a]
[CTDB TOCID: MqEUa7OqXf17ReYWxfl01RQhEss-] disk not present in database.
[AccurateRip ID: 00011898-0002f274-05029302] disk not present in database.

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] 
 --   97.9 [70DCFD07] [EB4D83A9]           
 01   97.9 [E85B15B9] [A78067B3]           
 02   97.9 [D3DA94C3] [DAD74F44]

Then I removed about 25.000 silent samples from the end of the second track:

Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 2012-01-15 23:15:41; Version: 2.1.2a]
Padded some input files to a frame boundary.
[CTDB TOCID: RSEP_0Vj4.XHkh3EcGLUWAtk9ns-] disk not present in database.
[AccurateRip ID: 0001186d-0002f1f3-05029302] disk not present in database.

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] 
 --   97.9 [ECD5A421] [EB4D83A9]           
 01   97.9 [E85B15B9] [A78067B3]           
 02   97.9 [88E6EA5A] [DAD74F44]

Different CRC32 with supposedly good rips

Reply #9 –
Cuetools w/o null samples is the same as the EAC w/o null samples.  Any sample or single channel of a sample with an amplitude of zero will be discarded from the calculation, whether it is at the edge of a track or is somewhere within the track.

If you have a different number of samples with non-null samples replaced with null samples then either style of checksums will be different.  If they remain the same then it means that in both instances only null samples were replaced with null samples (unless there is a collision).

Regarding my edit, I was trying to add clarity and avoid useless nitpicking.  I should have specifically mentioned that both styled of checksums (those calculated with and w/o null samples) would be identical when answering the OP's question, thought it seemed unnecessary. It also seems wholly unnecessary to muddy the waters with the effect of the fill up missing offset samples with silence setting or the removal of some arbitrary amount of silent samples from the end of a fabricated track.