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Topic: Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers (Read 7695 times) previous topic - next topic
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Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Hello, this is my first post here. I feel like this is a very nice place with nice people and I think I'll enjoy my stay here (as long as my wallet has cash for this expensive hobby)

This is my intended setup - PC with Gigabyte DSP-965 rev 3.3 motherboard with built-in soundcard. SPDIF optical connection to Logitech Z-5500 speakers.

The built-in sound card supports SPDIF optical connections (intel high definition), realtek codec.

I'm looking to pair this with a Logitech Z-5500 system, which has DTS and DDS decoders built in. My questions are:

1. Is the decoder on the Z-5500 the only factor in signal quality or does the soundcard factor into it? My understanding is the only thing the soundcard does is read the data from the application and send it to the Z-5500 for decoding.

2. How common is game support for surround sound? Out of the 3 new games on my computer - R6 Vegas 2, Fallout 3 and Left 4 Dead, only L4D features options for 2 to 7.1 speaker configurations. Is this a reliable sign that only L4D supports surround sound?

3. Is the Z-5500 worth the cash? My experience with audio reviews are that more than half of them are full of sh*t and gravitate too much towards gawking over the bass and the high decibel output - both of which you wouldn't want to use too much for fear of pissing off the neighbours or destroying your ears. I'm all about the complete sound. The Z-5500 gets about 85% glowing reviews - too good to be true for the price. I've seen "flawless" and "everything is perfect" used for this set, but common sense tells me it's impossible at this price point. Still, I just need to know if this thing is worth 400 bucks since I can't shell out any more than that at the moment. My usage will be equally for music, games and movies, but I'm most critical about movie sound as I want to be able to hear and feel every detail the sound artists put into the movie.

Thanks for lending your audiophile ears!

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #1
Quote
1. Is the decoder on the Z-5500 the only factor in signal quality or does the soundcard factor into it? My understanding is the only thing the soundcard does is read the data from the application and send it to the Z-5500 for decoding.


Ideally, with DD/dts tracks the sound card is just passing the stream through over optical.
The decoder doesn't seem like an especially likely place for error to come in these days either.

Quote
2. How common is game support for surround sound? Out of the 3 new games on my computer - R6 Vegas 2, Fallout 3 and Left 4 Dead, only L4D features options for 2 to 7.1 speaker configurations. Is this a reliable sign that only L4D supports surround sound?


You might look up EAX HD and Dolby Digital Live if you're not familiar with them.
I doubt your onboard sound does Dolby Digital Live encoding (you could check). I'm not sure if anyone makes a card that will use EAXHD and turn around and output a DD/dts stream, but there are some fancy non-Creative high end 'gamer' cards now.

Quote
3. Is the Z-5500 worth the cash?

Not sound quality wise for $400. Relative to an entry level DD decoding receiver, a set of decent inexpensive surrounds and a cheap powered subwoofer. At $300 it's still likely doable with used deals on craigslist, etc. Such systems can of course later be upgraded in a piecemeal fashion.

The logitech sub gets pretty loud, and the surrounds do too, but they're nothing new or miraculous. You can probably listen to them or another logitech system with the same surrounds or sub if you have a few chain computer or electronics stores near you.

If sound quality with music is a priority, you're going to be better off just getting a single pair of good speakers with most of your budget (unless the majority of sound listened to on the computer is surround encoded).

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #2
Ideally, with DD/dts tracks the sound card is just passing the stream through over optical.
The decoder doesn't seem like an especially likely place for error to come in these days either.


Thanks for your reply! Does the sound card play any part in processing the code and will a better sound card improve quality?

You might look up EAX HD and Dolby Digital Live if you're not familiar with them.
I doubt your onboard sound does Dolby Digital Live encoding (you could check). I'm not sure if anyone makes a card that will use EAXHD and turn around and output a DD/dts stream, but there are some fancy non-Creative high end 'gamer' cards now.


I'll just hold my breath and wait for more surround sound proliferation with games, this part isn't too important to me.

Not sound quality wise for $400. Relative to an entry level DD decoding receiver, a set of decent inexpensive surrounds and a cheap powered subwoofer. At $300 it's still likely doable with used deals on craigslist, etc. Such systems can of course later be upgraded in a piecemeal fashion.


Apologies, when I said $400 I meant in Australian Dollars, which is worth around $300 USD. Can you suggest some brands for these parts?

The logitech sub gets pretty loud, and the surrounds do too, but they're nothing new or miraculous. You can probably listen to them or another logitech system with the same surrounds or sub if you have a few chain computer or electronics stores near you.


I haven't seen one shop with this feature in my city. I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.

If sound quality with music is a priority, you're going to be better off just getting a single pair of good speakers with most of your budget (unless the majority of sound listened to on the computer is surround encoded).


I listen to music with a pair of Logitech Z-2300's and I'm quite content with them actually. The major reason for my upgrade is for a better signal (DTS) and clear surround sound for movies.

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #3
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3. Is the Z-5500 worth the cash?
  I don't know anything about those, but if you are critical about sound quality, I always recommend that people listen to speakers before buying.

Sometimes, it's worth taking a risk.  For example, if you can find some used speakers with a good reputation, or if you build your own speakers, you may be getting more for your money and the gamble might pay off. 

I've bought "computer speakers" over the Internet (without listening) because I wasn't going to be too picky about the sound.  And, I've built speakers that are better than I could have bought with the same budget.  I've never bought used speakers, but somebody gave me a pair of used speakers, and these are my rear-surround speakers in my home theater system.

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Does the sound card play any part in processing the code and will a better sound card improve quality?
Again, I don't know about your particular motherboard.  I wouldn't worry too much about any digital processing.  If a soundcard degrades sound, it's usually in the analog section (ADC or DAC).  Some people do worry about these things, and some soundcards have bit-perfect "pass thru" for DTS or DD movies.  I don't know if this works for games.  Usually, there is processing cabability so that you can adjust volume (from the computer), mix sound from two or more sources, adjust "soundfield modes", maybe adjust EQ, etc.  (If you are using pass-thru to a home theater receiver, these adjustments can be made with the receiver.)

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #4
2. How common is game support for surround sound? Out of the 3 new games on my computer - R6 Vegas 2, Fallout 3 and Left 4 Dead, only L4D features options for 2 to 7.1 speaker configurations. Is this a reliable sign that only L4D supports surround sound?

No. Some (many?) games simply use the Windows speaker configuration to determine how to submix audio.

I would say that most modern games -- modern being anything released during or after 2004/2005 -- support 5.1 or greater. There will always be exceptions.

Is the Z-5500 worth the cash? I'm all about the complete sound... I'm most critical about movie sound as I want to be able to hear and feel every detail the sound artists put into the movie.

Then the Z-5500s are probably not for you.

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #5
You're looking at the wrong features, mate.
I listen to music with a pair of Logitech Z-2300's and I'm quite content with them actually. The major reason for my upgrade is for a better signal (DTS) and clear surround sound for movies.
"The signal" is going to be far more accurate (that is, nearly always transparent) compared to what the speakers do with that signal. Speaker quality is exponentially more important than "signal quality".

Sending DTS or S/PDIF "to" a dinky, full-range, satellite speaker in a plastic enclosure will sound like a dinky, full-range, satellite speaker in a plastic enclosure.
Sending analog output to a a dinky, full-range, satellite speaker in a plastic enclosure will sound like a dinky, full-range, satellite speaker in a plastic enclosure.



It's my personal opinion that you are much better off with quality stereo speakers than you are with a cheap surround sound setup, even for DVDs.
elevatorladylevitateme

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #6
Thanks for your replies!

1. Doug: Thanks for the advice
2. Jones: I see, I would have never guessed speaker configurations would be that transparent in windows. Why do you say the z-5500 won't be good?
3. Snake: Isn't there some kind of trade off between getting to hear surround sound and very clear stereo sound? Will a good pair of 2.1's give better imaging than a cheap 5.1?

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #7
3. Snake: Isn't there some kind of trade off between getting to hear surround sound and very clear stereo sound?
Yes, of course.
As you'll see below, this depends on what you consider "surround sound".

Will a good pair of 2.1's give better imaging than a cheap 5.1?
In my opinion, yes. At your budget, especially yes.
  • With all due respect to TOS #8, Better speakers = better absolute sound quality.  The difference between a cheap one-way loudspeaker and a 2-way (a speaker that contains a tweeter and a woofer) or 3-way (a speaker that contains a tweeter and a woofer and mid-range driver) speaker is pretty tremendous. As other''s have mentioned, you need to go listen somewhere to understand this.
  • The purpose of a subwoofer is essentially a psychoacoustic one. By sending the bass frequencies from a crossover to the subwoofer you are choosing to forfeit the directionality of the bass notes in favor clearer reproduction, with the understanding that we humans are poor at locating the direction of bass notes.
    3" inch one-way drivers are unable to reproduce quite a bit of low and mid-low frequencies that humans can locate. So instead, in a system like the Z-5500, all of those those frequencies get sent to the subwoofer, or (less likely) they get sent to the satellites and are essentially lost.
elevatorladylevitateme

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #8
You make a strong point snake. Can you suggest a decent 5.1 system with 2 way speakers?

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #9
For $400 AUS? No. They don't exist.
Even for a $1000AUS [acronym title='Home Theater in a Box']HTiB[/acronym] you're probably looking at 2 way satellite speakers that only have 3-4" woofers.


But we could find you a decent pair of bookshelf speakers for ~300 and you could try to go bargain shopping for a (used?) integrated amp to drive them.

You can then combined that with your sub from your Z-2300's and you'll have a pretty good starting system you can build onto if you decide to spend more money.
elevatorladylevitateme

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #10
For $400 AUS? No. They don't exist.
Even for a $1000AUS [acronym title='Home Theater in a Box']HTiB[/acronym] you're probably looking at 2 way satellite speakers that only have 3-4" woofers.


But we could find you a decent pair of speakers for ~300 and you could try to go bargain shopping for a (used?) integrated amp to drive them.

You can then combined that with your sub from your Z-2300's and you'll have a pretty good starting system you can build onto if you decide to spend more money.


Do I need a DTS/DD decoder to go with that?

Ok let's assume I only have AU$1000 to spend on surround sound - what would be the best option?

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #11
Do I need a DTS/DD decoder to go with that?
Depends on what receiver/amp you can find.

Ok let's assume I only have AU$1000 to spend on surround sound - what would be the best option?
I would probably buy separate components for $1000AUS.
elevatorladylevitateme


Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #13
Might want to check out this link:
http://www.dansdata.com/m4kit.htm

It's a glowing (and seemingly no bs) review of an Australian company's speaker kit.  You buy the kit and put it together.

Checking their website shows them to be $129(aus) each speaker (free shipping).

Find a decent amp used to mate up with them and you'd have a decent low'ish cost system.

Also, read the faq on the website, it seems LSK has an approach to audio that is in line with Hydrogen Audio.

Quote
“Do I really need hugely expensive speaker cables?”

When it comes to speaker cables, most of the information you will get from dealers and so-called experts is just plain wrong. We believe that a good quality, simple low impedance copper cable is all that is required for all but the most difficult of installation jobs or speaker systems. Longer runs or higher powered systems benefit from a thicker cable but in general the trend towards very thick cables which have "magic" properties is just a waste of money.

“Are they 'audiophile' speakers?”

"Audiophile" means different things to people, for many it means "overpriced" and to others it means no compromise superior performance. Our kits are universally acclaimed as being excellent value for money and we do make the occasional compromise in design (especially with cosmetics and gadgets) to ensure costs are kept down so technically speaking, they aren't "audiophile" speakers. One listen, however, convinces most people that they are in fact outstanding value for money and produce superb sound for the purpose they are designed for.



Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #14
Wow thanks this may actually be the choice for me!

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #15
Necromancy!

2 years ago I got an audio itch, and asked you guys here whether it was a good idea to buy a logitech Z-5500 set to scratch that itch. You said HELL NO and gave me a good knock on the head for it. (well, it felt like it at the time). Then gerwen referred me to The Loudspeaker Kit in Australia. I liked their concept but thought AU$258 was just about the most I'd pay for a set of speakers, so I planned to eventually get their entry level M4. As it turns out, the M4's were the last thing I got (for rear surrounds) after buying basically their entire flagship range. You guys have damned me to a life of audio addiction, and I thank you for it. In gratitude, here's details on my brand new 5.1 system (video at the end):






http://youtu.be/3BG__0qsO9s?hd=1

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #16
nice vid & pics, thanks for returning to share!

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #17
Constructor people always have my respect. 

The video reminds me of those Daft Punk lyrics:

Code: [Select]
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it,
Charge it, pawn it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick - erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick - rewrite it,
Plug it, play it, burn it, rip it,
Drag and drop it, zip - unzip it,
Lock it, fill it, call it, find it,
View it, code it, jam - unlock it,
Surf it, scroll it, pause it, click it,
Cross it, crack it, switch - update it,
Name it, rate it, tune it, print it,
Scan it, send it, fax - rename it,
Touch it, bring it, Pay it, watch it,
Turn it, leave it, start - format it.

 

Need entry level advice with DTS, SPDIF and Speakers

Reply #18
Thanks guys ^^