CD players do interpolate, that is true.However, what is being suggested here is a case of reading the original data digitally, with errors, and these errors being encoded into a new copy.The player will not interpolate these since this is no longer a read error that it detects. In this case there could conceivably be pops etc.
Expand on "poor-sounding" - what do you mean, exactly?
Yes, the Red Book standard allows CD players to interpolate new samples on-the-fly if the original data can't be recovered, but to have so many consecutive unrecoverable errors that said interpolation causes an actual audible change in the overall tonal balance of a CD - and yet without any skips - seems highly unlikely.
Yes! This happened to me. I bought a K-Tel 60's compilation from CD universe that had skips & clicks n some tracks. The errors seemed to be "embedded" into the data, since the errors were apparent when the CD was played, and on the rip, and EAC didn't show any errors
The more relevant issue is that of CD's error "hiding". Whereas pops are easy to spot, missing samples replaced by interpolated ones during an inaccurate rip would not be directly noticible or detectable to an engineer doing a quality check, in the absence of reference checksums.
The vast majority of read errors are corrected to exactly what they are supposed to be, not to some interpolated guess. The more extreme types of error correction are required occasionally, but not from the majority of CDs. Even these corrections are rarely audible.Exact, bit for bit, extraction is common. It isn't so hard, merely tedious, to demonstrate that one can do this on one's own computer. I have. You write a CD-R, with any audio tracks, then you extract from your own CD-R. Compare each extracted track to that from which you wrote it, by one of the methods that will tell you, bit for bit, if there are any differences in the audio data. If variations isn't extremely rare to non-existent, you are doing something wrong or have defective equipment.Physical damaged CDs are another thing, but flawless playback can still occur in spite of quite a bit of minor scraping and scratching. CD created in such a way as to inhibit copying are a more difficult case and those CD-Rs written at very high speed on mass duplicators can sometimes give one fits.Those "fits" are usually very obvious and not the least bit musical.
Surely, if such phenomena were responsible for your “numerous poor-sounding CD's”, they’d be even more blatant to an engineer? Of course, this assumes they’re qualified in hearing, not just nominally and by knowing the right people[/cynic]Then again, I wonder how many engineers would consider this possibility enough to do a subjective “quality check” but not to give it that little bit more thought whence they would want an objective method with which to verify the accuracy of the copy.
Yes, this is one of the shortcomings of EAC and the AccurateRip database - pre-existing errors actually _encoded_ onto a CD by the mastering engineers will not be detected, including any derived from a previous inaccurate rip(!).Another problem is that of inaccurately-ripped CDs being distributed in lossless formats on file sharing sites - the checksums derived from them are apparently being entered into the AccurateRip database by other internet users, when of course they shouldn't be.
I am sorry to dissapoint you - but Accuraterip only ensures that CD is ripped without errors. What is on that CD is of no concern to Accuraterip database, as long as it is original CD.It is not a problem of AR database, nor EAC, it is solely the problem with sourcing the CD.
About this another problem, I don't know how AR populates it's database, but IIRC there have to be some number of same submissions for CD to enter database. I may be wrong, though.
Not that it's been discussed to death or anything, but yes, there are no 100% guarantees with AccurateRip and/or secure ripping, though I'm not really sure this is all that pertinent to do with the topic at hand.
Are these claims based solely on the results of your own experiments on your own computer?
If you are interested, you can read about the error correction technology built into the audio CD standard. This is available many places. While it is often pointed out that it isn't as rigorous as that used for data disks, it might be enlightening to know what this really means. Here are a couple of quotes from a respected technical source...
the difference between it and Audio CD, which is carrying a plain old PCM stream, is that the formats typically sent over UDP actually have their own limited error correction built into them (the MPEG2 "transport stream" is an example of this).
I just checked with a _very_ respected technical source, and I'm afraid he disagrees with the claims made by your respected technical source. Here are some quotes:
I certainly have numerous poor-sounding CD's in my own collection, to which the above could apply.
Are you suggesting that CDDA doesn't have built-in limited error correction? Perhaps you should rephrase.
Perhaps your "_very_ respected technical source" can provide us with the basis in scientific fact based for _your_ parroted claims, otherwise you're wasting our time.
I would also like to see the scientific basis behind your reasoning regarding this statement from your initial post:Quote from: jamie_P84 on 19 July, 2011, 10:48:33 AMI certainly have numerous poor-sounding CD's in my own collection, to which the above could apply.
Besides all this, what is the purpose of this thread other than to be argumentative?
Why haven't you asked the previous poster to do the same with his "respected technical source".
Such a discussion would be a diversion from the question I asked, to which the answer remains a simple yes or no.
Anyone with commercial CD mastering experience care to comment?
Clearly no-one here has professional mastering experience, so I've wasted my time.
Quote from: greynol on 20 July, 2011, 12:55:58 PMBesides all this, what is the purpose of this thread other than to be argumentative?To ascertain whether the potential exists for interpolated samples (created by a widely-recognised shortcoming of the CD audio format) to be erroneously encoded onto newly-mastered commercial discs.Clearly no-one here has professional mastering experience, so I've wasted my time.