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Topic: Playlists vs. playback queue (Read 37384 times) previous topic - next topic
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Playlists vs. playback queue

Hello,

I'm looking for pointers to general information on playlists, queues and media library in fb2k.

Background:

I'm a software engineer, with extensive training in music, professional audio, and the audiophile world for several decades.

For a variety of reasons, I've never had a reason to have an iPod or equivalent portable music player.  So, while I have used Internet Radio and other digital audio for many years, it has always been on a PC connected to an audio system.

As an older "album oriented" person, I have always organized my digital music files in Windows folders, and used Winamp by clicking on the folder (not the files) and choosing "Play in Winamp" or "Enqueue in Winamp" if I was not finished listening to the current tracks.

I have decided to a) convert all my files to appropriate tagged Media Library format, and b) switch to Foobar2000 (after first trying and rejecting MediaMonkey).

However, meanwhile I wanted to play some albums, and find that "Enqueue in Foobar2000" does an entirely different thing than "Enqueue in Winamp".

I have tried searching this Forum (as I have done as a lurker for many years) and foobar2000 documentation, but this time, I can't find the appropriate general information that doesn't assume that you are coming from the iPod "playlist" "queue" "library" mp3 world.  So, I am looking for a guide/tutorial on foobar2000's use and implementation of playlists, queues, tags and libraries.

Thanks !

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #1 –
You better ask some specific questions…

Super short overview: The media library monitors/indexes your music files. It allows you to setup views on your files by their tags (for example setting up tree views with genre > album > tracks) independent of the directory structure (but there is a folder view too). To do so, the Title formatting language will be useful or necessary. You cannot play tracks directly from your library but you can create as many playlists as you want; these can be filled with tracks from the library (or outside the library) either manually or automatically based on some query. To formulate such queries you need to learn the Query Syntax.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #2 –
Quote from: herojoker on
You better ask some specific questions…

Thanks for your reply.

Clarification - by "pointer to",  I mean a URL or link to an existing guide, tutorial, thread, etc.

Also, I understand the Joe Average meaning of "playlist" (a group of songs that you create for yourself instead of having to buy a CD with a pre-determined group, with your own selected order of playing), "queue" (a special playlist created on the fly by the player), and "media library" ( an organization of digital media files using their tags ).

Frankly, the "playlist" concept never interested me, because I never want to hear the same tracks that I played today, on another day in exactly the same order. that I just heard them.... unless it is the original order on the album.  Sometimes I want to hear "Dark Side of the Moon" in the order created by Alan Parsons that made it so famous.  A playlist is not really needed for this, just something that plays a queue in order of track number.  And, in fact, the album's cue file works just as well anyway to do that.

---

A specific question:

- When you click on a file (in Windows Explorer) and select "Play with Winamp", it will play that file.  While that is happening, if you click on another file and select "Enqueue with Winamp", that file will be "queued", i.e. it will wait and when it gets to the head of the line, it will play.  "Enqueue with Foobar2000" does not do that, so what is it doing ?  I will leave the "why not" part for the 30 page threads that I came across...

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #3 –
I looked at the Query Syntax.

It seems oriented towards people who use Music as a Mood Machine "I'm feeling sad, so I want to hear music about being sad".

The rating field reminded me of an Internet search that led to a thread advising people to rate all their songs !  Aside from the fact that I would be dead before I ever finished that, it is one of those classic self-destructive behaviors.    Some of my favorite albums are ones that I initially disliked, and I know several people who have had the same experience.

Aside from that, I guarantee that anyone doing the same rating a year later will have different results, let alone 20 years later.

In any event, I am never going to want to search my music for "tracks that are X and also Y and not Z".

Let me be clear though, that any of this that is helpful for someone else is just fine.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #4 –
Quote from: kstuart on
When you click on a file (in Windows Explorer) and select "Play with Winamp", it will play that file.  While that is happening, if you click on another file and select "Enqueue with Winamp", that file will be "queued", i.e. it will wait and when it gets to the head of the line, it will play.  "Enqueue with Foobar2000" does not do that, so what is it doing ?
Yes, it does: it adds the file(s) to the end of the active playlist (or a specific playlist if the option Always send incoming files to playlist is enabled). If this doesn’t happen for you, what does? Nothing?

You could also try foobar2000’s playback queue:
foobar2000 FAQ: How do I have a Winamp/MediaMonkey style "now playing" playlist on Hydrogenaudio Wiki
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/tag/queue

As for query syntax, I think you underestimate its potential applications, which are in no way limited to subjective traits such as rating or mood. However, I don’t have sufficient (any!) experience to provide particularly in-depth examples, so perhaps someone else can. Still, I can imagine some basic uses, such as: querying for (1) recently played songs, (2) songs that have one genre (e.g. rock) but specifically lack another (e.g. rap), (3) songs by a specific artist (e.g. Bach) that have a certain word in their title (e.g. Tocatta), etc.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #5 –
The Enqueue With Foobar2000 choice adds it to the visual lists in the UI, but not to what is playing.
---

So, when the program author wrote Foobar2000, there was never a document he wrote describing how it worked ?

A Forum search of Foobar2000 Forums and sub-Forums of title-only "queue" gives many questions about this - just from the viewpoint of "queue".

If Foobar2000 has a different way of working, then that is fine - but what is that way ?

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #6 –
Enqueue adds file(s) to the active (or a user-defined) playlist. If that playlist is being played, those files will be played when they are reached. Are you saying this doesn’t occur?

Is the playback queue any better? It allows you to interrupt a normal playlist: if there are songs in the queue, they are played after the current song, and once they have all been played, playback returns to the previous playlist.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #7 –
Quote from: dv1989 on
Enqueue adds file(s) to the active (or a user-defined) playlist. If that playlist is being played, those files will be played when they are reached. Are you saying this doesn’t occur?

Is the playback queue any better? It allows you to interrupt a normal playlist: if there are songs in the queue, they are played after the current song, and once they have all been played, playback returns to the previous playlist.


The registry says that Enqueue with Foobar2000 is:

Quote
"C:\Program Files\foobar2000\foobar2000.exe" /add "%1"


Reading some of the threads seems to indicate that Foobar2000 seems to do a different thing for "/add", and that really although the word "queue" is used a lot in the Forums, Foobar2000 does not have a queue at all.

In other words, Play plays the item, and Add is a playlist/library management action that has nothing directly to do with playing a file.

Meanwhile I've read yet more and it seems that Foobar2000 is even more playlist-oriented than I thought...

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #8 –
Quote from: kstuart on
Reading some of the threads seems to indicate that Foobar2000 seems to do a different thing for "/add", and that really although the word "queue" is used a lot in the Forums, Foobar2000 does not have a queue at all.
Read my above post again. You seem to have completely missed my second paragraph!

Quote
In other words, Play plays the item, and Add is a playlist/library management action that has nothing directly to do with playing a file.
These options have a lot to do with playing files. Play replaces the playlist contents with the selected files and plays them immediately, and Enqueue adds them to the playlist so they will be played after the songs already therein.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #9 –
Quote from: dv1989 on
Quote from: kstuart on
Reading some of the threads seems to indicate that Foobar2000 seems to do a different thing for "/add", and that really although the word "queue" is used a lot in the Forums, Foobar2000 does not have a queue at all.
Read my above post again. You seem to have completely missed my second paragraph!


I did and it did not make much sense - there seems to be semantic problems:

Quote
Is the playback queue any better?


What is "the playback queue" referred to in this sentence ?

Quote
It allows you to interrupt a normal playlist: if there are songs in the queue, they are played after the current song, and once they have all been played, playback returns to the previous playlist.


In that sentence, which playlist and what queue ?

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #10 –
Actually, it’s probably best to ignore that paragraph…I was referring to the option Add to playback queue; however, now that I actually think about it(!), this is only available within foobar2000 itself, i.e. for tracks already in a playlist. Sorry!

Still, I may as well clarify this:
Quote
which playlist and what queue ?
The playback queue allows to which you can add files that will interrupt the flow of the currently active playlist, as I described above.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #11 –
Just to make that sure: If you want to play some track (and it doesn't matter whether you select it in the Windows Explorer or in the Media Library), the usual way is to add it to a playlist. There can be many playlists but at each given time there is only one active playlist which is exactly the one which the playlist view is showing but it is not necessarily the one from which you are currently playing tracks.

Example:
From within foobar2000 I create a playlist called 'stuff' and I drag & drop stuff I want to hear in the next hours into it. I double click the first song in it and it will (with normal playing order, not shuffle or something like that) just play track by track. While the music plays I decide to tag some files, so I open a new playlist called 'tagging', again I drop some files into it and do the tagging work (properties etc.), playback won't be interrupted while doing that. Now I might decide I don't like my original playlist, so I could modify (by activating it [usually double clicking it], then rearranging/adding/removing tracks) or completely delete it and for example start my tagging playlist.

The playback queue allows to proceed with a song not in the currently-playing playlist after the current song. If you choose tracks from a media library viewer, the order will be: current track in playlist A -> playback queue -> next track in playlist A. If you choose tracks from another playlist B the order will (imho unfortunately) be: current track in playlist A -> playback queue containing tracks from playlist B -> next track in playlist B after the last one in the playback queue  [it doesn't return to playlist A].

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #12 –
Well, I tried two other music players, both of which are really very good, but both have major flaws.

SO, I am giving foobar2000 a third try, partially because I will be using the live-show-tagger component irregardless of which player I use to play music.

Back to playing music:

Quote from: herojoker on
Just to make that sure: If you want to play some track (and it doesn't matter whether you select it in the Windows Explorer or in the Media Library), the usual way is to add it to a playlist. There can be many playlists but at each given time there is only one active playlist which is exactly the one which the playlist view is showing but it is not necessarily the one from which you are currently playing tracks.


I cannot express how much I dislike the idea of not showing the currently playing tracks.

Caller-id shows who is calling when your phone is ringing.  Info button on the DVR shows the show that is playing.  Sat Nav shows where you are.

Quote
The playback queue allows to proceed with a song not in the currently-playing playlist after the current song. If you choose tracks from a media library viewer, the order will be: current track in playlist A -> playback queue -> next track in playlist A. If you choose tracks from another playlist B the order will (imho unfortunately) be: current track in playlist A -> playback queue containing tracks from playlist B -> next track in playlist B after the last one in the playback queue  [it doesn't return to playlist A].

In your opinion "unfortunately", in my opinion "horrible".

Internally in foobar2000, there has to be a database, which tells the player "play this track, then play this track, then play this track".  If it did not have this database, it would only play one song (or one "playlist").

Everywhere else in the universe, except for foobar2000, this database is called "the queue".  But, from what you are saying the word "queue" is used by foobar2000 for a special crippled playlist, and foobar2000 has no word for its database of what it is going to play in the future, and no way of displaying it.

I've read a whole thread about a component that seems to try to address this (but apparently doesn't), and there were a couple of posters who thought that it was pointless, "because once you do things in the foobar2000 way, you will see how pointless this is".  But I still cannot find any description of what that "foobar2000 way" is.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #13 –
Quote from: kstuart on
Also, I understand the Joe Average meaning of "playlist" (a group of songs that you create for yourself instead of having to buy a CD with a pre-determined group, with your own selected order of playing), "queue" (a special playlist created on the fly by the player), and "media library" ( an organization of digital media files using their tags ).


In fb2k this is much simpler. A "playlist" is a list of tracks that are going to be played.

That's. It.

Any special definitions you have regarding anything found in other software simply don't apply. The more you try to force them on fb2k the more frustrated you'll make yourself. foobar2000's "queue" was added in an attempt to meet users in your position half-way, but it really doesn't add any necessary functionality.

Quote from: kstuart on
I cannot express how much I dislike the idea of not showing the currently playing tracks.

Caller-id shows who is calling when your phone is ringing. Info button on the DVR shows the show that is playing. Sat Nav shows where you are.

In the Default UI, Info about the playing track is displayed in the window's titlebar and status bar. If you need to locate the playing track, you can double-click the status bar.
elevatorladylevitateme

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #14 –
Quote from: shakey_snake on
Any special definitions you have regarding anything found in other software simply don't apply. The more you try to force them on fb2k the more frustrated you'll make yourself. foobar2000's "queue" was added in an attempt to meet users in your position half-way, but it really doesn't add any necessary functionality.

Quote from: kstuart on
I cannot express how much I dislike the idea of not showing the currently playing tracks.

Caller-id shows who is calling when your phone is ringing. Info button on the DVR shows the show that is playing. Sat Nav shows where you are.

In the Default UI, Info about the playing track is displayed in the window's titlebar and status bar. If you need to locate the playing track, you can double-click the status bar.

Thanks for your reply.

( In fact, in the threads that I read, your comments were the clearest.)

I will leave aside for the moment, the fact that the status bar and titlebar are too small to list all the relevant information about the current playing track, since that is something that could be rectified in a component, if it is not already.

If you read the thread above, and particularly the quotes I selected in my previous post, I am more concerned about the tracks that foobar2000 has stored in its database as needing to be played in the future.  (In every other player, that database is the "queue", but since it is not in foobar2000, for brevity, let's call it the "floob".)

I want and need to know the contents of the floob in regards to tracks that are set to be played in the future.    While there is an established need for the tracks played in the past, due in large part to last.fm,  many of us still need to know what is going to be played in the future.  If I have a room full of elderly people, I don't want that Metallica track to actually play.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #15 –
Quote from: kstuart on
I will leave aside for the moment, the fact that the status bar and titlebar are too small to list all the relevant information about the current playing track, since that is something that could be rectified in a component, if it is not already.
Well, you can try this


Quote from: kstuart on
I want and need to know the contents of the floob in regards to tracks that are set to be played in the future.    While there is an established need for the tracks played in the past, due in large part to last.fm,  many of us still need to know what is going to be played in the future.  If I have a room full of elderly people, I don't want that Metallica track to actually play.

Assuming you are using the default playback order, the next thing to be played will be after the playing item in the playlist.
elevatorladylevitateme

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #16 –
Quote from: shakey_snake on
Assuming you are using the default playback order, the next thing to be played will be after the playing item in the playlist.

well, I was referring to this comment:
Quote
The playback queue allows to proceed with a song not in the currently-playing playlist after the current song. If you choose tracks from a media library viewer, the order will be: current track in playlist A -> playback queue -> next track in playlist A. If you choose tracks from another playlist B the order will (imho unfortunately) be: current track in playlist A -> playback queue containing tracks from playlist B -> next track in playlist B after the last one in the playback queue [it doesn't return to playlist A].

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #17 –
If you don't use foobar2000's queue functionality, you can totally predict what will be played by looking at the currently playing playlist. I think this is also what most other players do, they just don't have the additional possibility to insert further tracks into the usual playback process. That new possibility unfortunately involves more complicated logic.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #18 –
Quote from: herojoker on
If you don't use foobar2000's queue functionality, you can totally predict what will be played by looking at the currently playing playlist.

Okay, is there a way to display the currently playing playlist ?

And, is there a way to disable the queue ?

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #19 –
Quote from: kstuart on
Quote from: herojoker on
If you don't use foobar2000's queue functionality, you can totally predict what will be played by looking at the currently playing playlist.

Okay, is there a way to display the currently playing playlist ?


Double-click the status bar. This will jump to the currently playing item

Don't get me started on the discoverability of a statusbar double-click, but hey, the feature's there.


Quote from: kstuart on
Quote from: herojoker on
If you don't use foobar2000's queue functionality, you can totally predict what will be played by looking at the currently playing playlist.

And, is there a way to disable the queue ?


Forget the queue. It's something internal too foobar and it's somewhat designed to be invisible. It comes up as topic because some advanced users express a desire to manipulate it, but you don't really need to be aware of it under normal curcumstances. Use playlists. As many as you like. They're disposable: quickly created, quickly destroyed and will fulfil all your queueing and playback needs.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #20 –
Quote from: dhromed on
Quote from: kstuart on
Quote from: herojoker on
If you don't use foobar2000's queue functionality, you can totally predict what will be played by looking at the currently playing playlist.

Okay, is there a way to display the currently playing playlist ?


Double-click the status bar. This will jump to the currently playing item

Okay, but what are you referring to, when you use the word "item" ?

Does that double-click display the playlist that is currently playing, including all the tracks that foobar2000 will play next ?

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #21 –
How much time does it take to double click your mouse?

Regardless of where you are in foobar, double click will move to the currently playing track [item]. The currently playing track is in a playlist so yes, of course, all tracks in that playlist are visible.

Are you trying to work all of this out in your head, or are you actually using foobar? It is really hard to get a grasp of what you are struggling with. Maybe a screen shot of your configuration would help?

EDIT: Trying to understand, I re-read this thread. Are you trying to manage your tracks via a playlist. That is, one large playlist holds all your music and you use it as a location to browse for tracks to play instead of a doing your browsing in a dedicated media library. A screenshot would really be helpful.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #22 –
I'm also a little confused and I think your problem with queue vs playlist is probably due to a quirk in the way you're using the player.

For most foobar users, the "queue", i.e. the list of tracks which are coming up and which have just played, is determined purely by the order the tracks appear in the playlist you're currently in. You're welcome to never have more than just the one, Default, playlist, and then it's your queue, akin to your description of the "special playlist created by the player". Just dump or enqueue tracks in there, shift them around if you want, etc.

I'm also a bit bamboozled about what you think foobar is doing. It might help to just dispense with any preconceptions you have about what a "playlist" is, and also completely forget about this half-hearted "queue" (or "playback queue" or whatever) that foobar has but doesn't really display. It's not what you want, I think, and it pretty much never comes into effect (I only recently discovered it existed and I've been using foobar for years).

I'm pretty sure all you want is to have a list of tracks that play in the displayed order and can be added to/edited on the fly. That's what a playlist is. In Preferences under Shell integration you can choose to always send tracks to a named playlist, so if your standard view is the Default playlist (as it would be by default), just always send there. The "Enqueue in foobar" context-menu item will then just send tracks to the bottom of this playlist.
This Default playlist is then simply your "Now Playing" viewer. It's your playback queue. Isn't it?

Note: You can see what track is currently playing by looking for the "Play" symbol - right-pointing triangle - in the "Playing" column.
You can, of course, configure whatever columns you like to show whatever info you like about the tracks. You can also configure the titlebar and statusbar of the program to show related info of whatever type you like, using titleformatting, which you can get fairly in-depth information about from the Help menu.

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #23 –
Quote from: frogworth on
In Preferences under Shell integration you can choose to always send tracks to a named playlist, so if your standard view is the Default playlist (as it would be by default), just always send there. The "Enqueue in foobar" context-menu item will then just send tracks to the bottom of this playlist.
This Default playlist is then simply your "Now Playing" viewer. It's your playback queue. Isn't it?

Okay, so I found some documentation on just that in a Wiki that is accessed by pressing the ? in the corner of the Preferences, and this states:
Quote
Folder context menus

  Toggles "play in foobar2000" and "enqueue in foobar2000" context menus on folders in Windows Explorer.

Set "enqueue" as the default action

  Sets "enqueue in foobar2000" as the default (double-click) action, rather than "play in foobar2000".

Bring to front when adding new files

  Toggles whether the main foobar2000 is activated when new files are added.

Always send new files to playlist ________

  Enabling this feature causes all files newly added through Windows Shell to be put in a specific playlist rather than in the currently active playlist.


I was following that until the final definition.... "all files newly added through Window Shell" which seems to be at odds with the two choices being "play" and "enqueue" --- since "enqueue" adds to the separate invisible "queue", and "play in foobar2000" is not itself described precisely anywhere that I have found.

The status bar defines "add" as "add to the current playlist" and if the current playlist is not playing, then "play" is not clear as to its outcome.

In short, since foobar2000 is not using the standard usage of words like "queue", then it needs to having everything well documented somewhere.    Not having documentation means that you are using the standard usage of all terms.

A couple of people are responding as if I want to do a particular thing, but rather I first want to find out exactly what foobar2000 actually does.

Again I don't want to judge prematurely, but it seems like eleven years should be long enough to have solid documentation of what files will be played when, and what each of the terms in the interface actually mean.

Going back to the beginning, there needs to be some documentation

Playlists vs. playback queue

Reply #24 –
Quote
since "enqueue" adds to the separate invisible "queue"


"enqueue" means "add these songs to the playlist but don't start to play them".