Skip to main content

Topic: Ripping and drive offset (Read 6307 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
I'm trying to rip a few Audio CDs that I want to make sure that they are bit perfect. I'm using a sony 7240, 7260 and a Samsung SH224. The two sony drives returned identical results from EAC, but the samsung drive has a different offset and returned different crc values for a half of the tracks. (in total on all cds, averages 1/2 tracks per cd as well). I don't know what to do now, since half of the tracks did return identical CRCs, should i just assume that the rest of the tracks are solely affected by the varying offsets?


The offset values in the Accurip database didn't help.

Also, once they are ripped, what format should they be stored in? Does win7 have any kind of file integrity record for raw wav files? If not, then should I archive them in compressed audio formats like FLAC or simply use winrar on them?

Thanks.

  • odyssey
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #1
If your drives are configured correctly, correcting the different offsets, they should rip the same data with same CRC*. However, I think you may be trying to rip a "Copy Controlled" CD or maybe just a damaged or badly manufactured CD in this case. Try some other CD's to see if they behave the same way.

Also, maybe try ripping in Secure mode.

* Disclaimer: I have to state that under certain very uncommon and rare circumstances, this may not be true.
  • Last Edit: 28 March, 2011, 04:39:37 AM by odyssey
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #2
I have to state that under certain very uncommon and rare circumstances, this may not be true.

In the case drives with different offsets which cannot overread (or one can overread and the other cannot), this is not at all uncommon.  This only affects either the first and/or last tracks on a disc, however.

HTS, please provide some logs illustrating your problem.
  • Last Edit: 28 March, 2011, 09:06:19 AM by greynol
Your eyes cannot hear.

  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #3
What format should it be in?

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #4
Just do what this poster did with the second log presented (ignore the one generated by Nero):
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=86761
  • Last Edit: 28 March, 2011, 05:33:50 PM by greynol
Your eyes cannot hear.

  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #5
Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 1 from 15. November 2010

Used drive  : TSSTcorpCDDVDW SH-S243D  Adapter: 3  ID: 1

Read mode              : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks  : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations      : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |  Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector
   ---------------------------------------------------------
       1  |  0:00.00 | 18:15.47 |        0    |    82171 
       2  | 18:15.47 |  9:05.38 |    82172    |  123084 
       3  | 27:21.10 | 11:08.37 |    123085    |  173221 
       4  | 38:29.47 |  2:43.00 |    173222    |  185446 
       5  | 41:12.47 |  1:54.28 |    185447    |  194024 
       6  | 43:07.00 |  2:08.67 |    194025    |  203691 
       7  | 45:15.67 |  2:26.45 |    203692    |  214686 
       8  | 47:42.37 |  1:32.18 |    214687    |  221604 
       9  | 49:14.55 |  0:59.37 |    221605    |  226066 
       10  | 50:14.17 |  1:24.73 |    226067    |  232439 
       11  | 51:39.15 |  2:36.07 |    232440    |  244146 
       12  | 54:15.22 |  4:40.58 |    244147    |  265204 
       13  | 58:56.05 |  0:38.67 |    265205    |  268121 
       14  | 59:34.72 |  1:11.05 |    268122    |  273451 
       15  | 60:46.02 |  0:59.15 |    273452    |  277891 
       16  | 61:45.17 |  1:03.25 |    277892    |  282641 
       17  | 62:48.42 |  1:16.40 |    282642    |  288381 


Track  1

     Peak level 33.8 %
     Extraction speed 7.7 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 5F883763
     Copy CRC 5F883763
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Peak level 19.1 %
     Extraction speed 9.4 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 1BD2A231
     Copy CRC 1BD2A231
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Peak level 85.9 %
     Extraction speed 10.4 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 49690297
     Copy CRC 49690297
     Copy OK

Track  4

     Peak level 65.8 %
     Extraction speed 10.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 1E203610
     Copy CRC 1E203610
     Copy OK

Track  5

     Peak level 41.0 %
     Extraction speed 10.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 382733AE
     Copy CRC 382733AE
     Copy OK

Track  6

     Peak level 40.5 %
     Extraction speed 11.0 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 4248872A
     Copy CRC 4248872A
     Copy OK

Track  7

     Peak level 33.8 %
     Extraction speed 11.0 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 1DC6009F
     Copy CRC 1DC6009F
     Copy OK

Track  8

     Peak level 62.0 %
     Extraction speed 11.1 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC F5B189C3
     Copy CRC F5B189C3
     Copy OK

Track  9

     Peak level 43.5 %
     Extraction speed 10.2 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC F1CC61DD
     Copy CRC F1CC61DD
     Copy OK

Track 10

     Peak level 43.4 %
     Extraction speed 10.6 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC E7F864B3
     Copy CRC E7F864B3
     Copy OK

Track 11

     Peak level 92.2 %
     Extraction speed 11.6 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 3ED7AE69
     Copy CRC 3ED7AE69
     Copy OK

Track 12

     Peak level 52.5 %
     Extraction speed 12.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC A82A9FDC
     Copy CRC A82A9FDC
     Copy OK

Track 13
    
     Peak level 14.5 %
     Extraction speed 5.2 X
     Track quality 99.4 %
     Test CRC ECCA7311
     Copy CRC ECCA7311
     Copy OK

Track 14

     Peak level 17.4 %
     Extraction speed 7.1 X
     Track quality 99.7 %
     Test CRC ABAD8252
     Copy CRC ABAD8252
     Copy OK

Track 15

     Peak level 22.3 %
     Extraction speed 10.7 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC CC64A95F
     Copy CRC CC64A95F
     Copy OK

Track 16

     Peak level 17.3 %
     Extraction speed 10.8 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 2FA54800
     Copy CRC 2FA54800
     Copy OK

Track 17

     Peak level 15.1 %
     Extraction speed 11.7 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 1BAEC2EE
     Copy CRC 1BAEC2EE
     Copy OK

No errors occurred
Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 1 from 15. November 2010

Used drive  : Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S  Adapter: 0  ID: 1

Read mode              : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Combined read/write offset correction      : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks  : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations      : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |  Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector
   ---------------------------------------------------------
       1  |  0:00.00 | 18:15.47 |        0    |    82171 
       2  | 18:15.47 |  9:05.38 |    82172    |  123084 
       3  | 27:21.10 | 11:08.37 |    123085    |  173221 
       4  | 38:29.47 |  2:43.00 |    173222    |  185446 
       5  | 41:12.47 |  1:54.28 |    185447    |  194024 
       6  | 43:07.00 |  2:08.67 |    194025    |  203691 
       7  | 45:15.67 |  2:26.45 |    203692    |  214686 
       8  | 47:42.37 |  1:32.18 |    214687    |  221604 
       9  | 49:14.55 |  0:59.37 |    221605    |  226066 
       10  | 50:14.17 |  1:24.73 |    226067    |  232439 
       11  | 51:39.15 |  2:36.07 |    232440    |  244146 
       12  | 54:15.22 |  4:40.58 |    244147    |  265204 
       13  | 58:56.05 |  0:38.67 |    265205    |  268121 
       14  | 59:34.72 |  1:11.05 |    268122    |  273451 
       15  | 60:46.02 |  0:59.15 |    273452    |  277891 
       16  | 61:45.17 |  1:03.25 |    277892    |  282641 
       17  | 62:48.42 |  1:16.40 |    282642    |  288381 


Track  1

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 33.8 %
     Extraction speed 21.9 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 79D2EE8C
     Copy CRC 79D2EE8C
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Pre-gap length  0:00:06.35

     Peak level 19.1 %
     Extraction speed 27.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 4339CA92
     Copy CRC 4339CA92
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Pre-gap length  0:00:03.35

     Peak level 85.9 %
     Extraction speed 30.6 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 0BDED5CA
     Copy CRC 0BDED5CA
     Copy OK

Track  4

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.50

     Peak level 65.8 %
     Extraction speed 32.1 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC F6552473
     Copy CRC F6552473
     Copy OK

Track  5

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.17

     Peak level 41.0 %
     Extraction speed 29.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 83376822
     Copy CRC 83376822
     Copy OK

Track  6

     Pre-gap length  0:00:03.65

     Peak level 40.5 %
     Extraction speed 32.0 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC A2BB02F4
     Copy CRC A2BB02F4
     Copy OK

Track  7

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.40

     Peak level 33.8 %
     Extraction speed 31.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC C750098C
     Copy CRC C750098C
     Copy OK

Track  8

     Pre-gap length  0:00:03.10

     Peak level 62.0 %
     Extraction speed 33.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 9840D67D
     Copy CRC 9840D67D
     Copy OK

Track  9

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.25

     Peak level 43.5 %
     Extraction speed 28.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC F86BC747
     Copy CRC F86BC747
     Copy OK

Track 10

     Pre-gap length  0:00:03.70

     Peak level 43.4 %
     Extraction speed 30.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC CA0D0958
     Copy CRC CA0D0958
     Copy OK

Track 11

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.65

     Peak level 92.2 %
     Extraction speed 33.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 2758FF4F
     Copy CRC 2758FF4F
     Copy OK

Track 12

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.22

     Peak level 52.5 %
     Extraction speed 35.4 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC CFA0A6CE
     Copy CRC CFA0A6CE
     Copy OK

Track 13

     Pre-gap length  0:00:01.73

     Peak level 14.5 %
     Extraction speed 7.7 X
     Track quality 99.4 %
     Test CRC 25DB8A75
     Copy CRC 25DB8A75
     Copy OK

Track 14

     Pre-gap length  0:00:01.45

     Peak level 17.4 %
     Extraction speed 30.1 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 2BE0CBED
     Copy CRC 2BE0CBED
     Copy OK

Track 15

     Pre-gap length  0:00:01.62

     Peak level 22.3 %
     Extraction speed 28.0 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 037B1C36
     Copy CRC 037B1C36
     Copy OK

Track 16

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.50

     Peak level 17.3 %
     Extraction speed 28.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC A336132B
     Copy CRC A336132B
     Copy OK

Track 17

     Pre-gap length  0:00:01.20

     Peak level 15.1 %
     Extraction speed 36.9 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 5F06396F
     Copy CRC 5F06396F
     Copy OK

No errors occurred
  • Last Edit: 28 March, 2011, 07:50:10 PM by greynol

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #6
Here's your problem:

Null samples used in CRC calculations : No

!!!!!!!!!!!

...and odyssey was right as well:
If your drives are configured correctly, correcting the different offsets, they should rip the same data with same CRC.
...though I don't care so much that your drives aren't calibrated to one another.  You were misled into thinking you had tracks that were ripped the same because of the no use of null samples in CRC calculations setting.  It's a horrible option and should be removed from EAC; that the default is checked makes it even worse!

Let this thread serve as a warning to anyone who suggests omitting null samples from CRC calculations is a good thing because it allows you to compare rips with different offsets.  It doesn't work all that well, now does it?!?
  • Last Edit: 28 March, 2011, 08:24:47 PM by greynol
Your eyes cannot hear.

  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #7
What can I do about the different offsets? Your wiki has this to say about Accuraterip

Quote
Accuracy

Determining the actual read offset of a drive is difficult. The measurements Andre Wiethoff used to calibrate the AccurateRip database were challenged in late 2006, and strong evidence was presented to support a claim that the reference is actually off by 30 samples. That is, the offsets are 30 samples too low, or the correction values are 30 samples too high, however you want to look at it. Weithoff feels that it's too late to change to a different calibration now that the database is populated.

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #8
Wow, that gives the impression that Andre Wiethoff was responsible for AccurateRip which is completely wrong.

Anyway, don't worry about it, just let AccurateRip do its thing.
  • Last Edit: 28 March, 2011, 11:11:01 PM by greynol
Your eyes cannot hear.

  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #9
I have to state that under certain very uncommon and rare circumstances, this may not be true.

In the case drives with different offsets which cannot overread (or one can overread and the other cannot), this is not at all uncommon.  This only affects either the first and/or last tracks on a disc, however.

It just happened to one of the CDs. Only the last track got returned with different crcs. What can I do in this case?

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #10
Nothing.  Again, don't worry about it.
Your eyes cannot hear.

  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #11
Nothing.  Again, don't worry about it.

So are both of them considered equally perfect? So I can just arbitrarily pick the rip from one drive and archive that?

  • odyssey
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #12
I have to state that under certain very uncommon and rare circumstances, this may not be true.

In the case drives with different offsets which cannot overread (or one can overread and the other cannot), this is not at all uncommon.  This only affects either the first and/or last tracks on a disc, however.

No that's true, but then I could go on with all the possibilities, and it didn't sound like it was only the first and last track.

Anyway, some great advice you gave there with the settings!
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #13
When EAC says that "there were errors", it doesn't tell you where the errors were at if you close the program. Is it possible for the errors during read/write to be consistent? In other words, on the log file they show identical CRC values, but both of them were consistently wrong.


  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #14
If this is what I think you're asking, yes, it is possible to get test and copy CRCs that match but still have an error.  When you get this with two dissimilar drives it becomes less likely.  When you get a positive match from AccurateRip it is even less likely still, unless your disc has copy protection or was subject to a consistent manufacturing defect.
Your eyes cannot hear.

  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #15
This is all for Audio CDs. What about file CDs (just disks with sound files on them and you drag them into your hdd)?

  • db1989
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #16
Just drag the files as you have been doing. Data CDs have much better error checking/correction (by necessity), so no double-checking is needed unless the CD (or drive) are badly damaged/defective; and they have no issues with offsets.
  • Last Edit: 30 March, 2011, 06:56:59 PM by dv1989

  • HTS
  • [*][*][*][*]
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #17
Just drag the files as you have been doing. Data CDs have much better error checking/correction (by necessity), so no double-checking is needed unless the CD (or drive) are badly damaged/defective; and they have no issues with offsets.

What about storing the files you have already copied? Do you have to use some archiving program (like winrar) to implement error checking and recovery capabilities? Do raw wav files sitting in folders have error checking/reporting features?

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Ripping and drive offset
Reply #18
This has gotten too far off-topic.

Discussion closed.
Your eyes cannot hear.