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  • Case
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  • Developer (Donating)
foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3 is now available.
Converter now allows disabling HDCD and DTS post-processors and installer has been changed slightly.

  • Alex B
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #1
Converter now allows disabling HDCD and DTS post-processors...

Why only converter?

As I explained here, an option to disable HDCD decoding would be needed for analyzing Replay Gain in case the user wants to save Replay Gain tags that are correct on any "non-HDCD" player program or device.  I would have preferred to see a global on/off switch in Preferences > Tools > HDCD decoding > ... or something like that.

Replay Gain in general when a mixed playlist contains standard files and HDCD files and the HDCD decoder is installed is an issue of its own. I can only think that an option to analyze and save an additional set of proprietary HDCD Replay Gain tags (which would be used instead of standard tags during HDCD playback) would make it work correctly. Until something like that is implemented a total on/off switch for HDCD decoding would be needed to use Replay Gain with mixed playlists. Probably many users have at least some already ripped and RG analyzed HDCDs that have not been tagged as containing HDCD anyhow. There is no simple and quick way to even know which files are HDCD before the files are played.

Edit: CUETools can be used for checking the presence of HDCD, but unfortunately it doesn't have an option to save an "HDCD tag". The info would need to be gathered from the log files.
  • Last Edit: 13 August, 2010, 12:44:19 PM by Alex B

foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #2
Hi, I am finding in recent betas that some settings are not being saved when upgrading, this did not used to happen.

More specifically in Converter Setup, "Name format" options were not remembered (just %title% appears in the dropdown list) and I am asked to specfiy the path for lame.exe (I expect the same will happen for FLAC.exe as well), that's all I've noticed so far in this latest version although I seem to remember there was something else in the penultimate one.

BTW I like the new interface, keep up the good work!

Graham
  • Last Edit: 13 August, 2010, 01:04:29 PM by emiliaserv

  • Case
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  • Developer (Donating)
foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #3
I agree that HDCD makes ReplayGain trickier. But more tickboxes in options does not really solve the issue properly. Scanning for example DTS-in-Wav tracks would give completely wrong results without decoder. Perhaps optional 6 dB boost for HDCD decoder would fix issues?
Oh, and you can scan your files for HDCD data with right click context menu. Should be far easier than using CUETools or some other external program.

  • Alex B
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #4
I agree that HDCD makes ReplayGain trickier. But more tickboxes in options does not really solve the issue properly. Scanning for example DTS-in-Wav tracks would give completely wrong results without decoder. Perhaps optional 6 dB boost for HDCD decoder would fix issues?

Do you mean that HDCD decoding would be automatically disabled during Replay Gain scanning and on playback the HDCD tracks would get a 6 dB boost? That might help a bit, but the peak values would still be incorrect and when the peak extension feature is active also the measured gain values would not be accurate because the audio content is then different.

Quote
Oh, and you can scan your files for HDCD data with right click context menu. Should be far easier than using CUETools or some other external program.

The right-click HDCD query isn't very useful because it doesn't provide any means to export the results.

I just tried it with a big library of lossless files. At first the HDCD item wasn't available in the context menu because not all files were in the correct format. After I created a playlist that contained only the 16/44.1/2-channel FLAC files I analyzed the remaining about 1000 albums. I am now presented with the results window, but the only way to somehow store the results is to take a bunch of screenshots (I need to scroll over 20 times to go through the list.)

  • Case
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  • Developer (Donating)
foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #5
No. I mean that without rescanning the loudness would be close to old replaygain values. If you need real peak values you would rescan.

  • Peter
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  • Administrator
foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #6
Encoding of non-PCM data - such as HDCD or DTS - within a PCM stream is a horrible idea to begin with.
Due to huge demand, I've gone as far as providing convenient means to decode such content with fb2k. However, the whole concept is inherently incompatible with the way fb2k works and will not be supported any further than it is now. Please use DTS in proper containers instead and decode HDCD content while ripping so you don't need special nonsense measures while playing or converting later on.
  • Last Edit: 14 August, 2010, 03:52:46 AM by Peter

  • Alex B
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #7
I fully agree and that's exactly why I requested a global on/off switch instead of a switch only in the converter. (I would have not said anything if fb2k had an easy method to enable/disable a third party component. Removing a component outside foobar when needed is an awkward solution.) I am not going to pollute this thread more with HDCD issues, but I may post some further info about my findings in the HDCD thread in the 3rd party forum.

  • odyssey
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #8
After updating to beta 3 (from beta 1 afair), it's unable to see any "user-components" anymore. Why??
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #9
After updating to beta 3 (from beta 1 afair), it's unable to see any "user-components" anymore. Why??


I noticed the same thing . . . until I realized I had accidentally downloaded and installed v1.0.3. You may want to double-check to see if you made the same mistake.

  • odyssey
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #10
After updating to beta 3 (from beta 1 afair), it's unable to see any "user-components" anymore. Why??


I noticed the same thing . . . until I realized I had accidentally downloaded and installed v1.0.3. You may want to double-check to see if you made the same mistake.

LOL stupid download link. I'm too used to downloading the topmost. Thanks heh
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #11
After updating to beta 3 (from beta 1 afair), it's unable to see any "user-components" anymore. Why??


I noticed the same thing . . . until I realized I had accidentally downloaded and installed v1.0.3. You may want to double-check to see if you made the same mistake.

LOL stupid download link. I'm too used to downloading the topmost. Thanks heh


Well looks like that makes 3 of us, I could have sworn I downloaded the beta version but after checking it seems I made the same mistake, I've just installed v1.1 beta 3 and did not see the problems I reported yesterday.

Graham

foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #12
I am a bit confused by the whole "HDCD or DTS" aspect. What exactly does this change or add? I notice it is checked by default when I upgraded.

  • GeSomeone
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #13
Thanks for this change, I think it was necessary to be able to switch off the post decoding processing in the converter.
I also agree with Peter, the madness has to stop somewhere, either use the post decode processing or don't (for DTS the choice is obvious to me).
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

  • ExUser
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  • Read-only
foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #14
I am a bit confused by the whole "HDCD or DTS" aspect. What exactly does this change or add? I notice it is checked by default when I upgraded.
It allows for decoding DTS or HDCD information that's baked into a straight PCM data stream.

If that makes no sense to you, don't worry about it. It's a feature that caters to expert users.
  • Last Edit: 15 August, 2010, 10:43:21 AM by Canar

foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #15
I figured it was for advanced users but why make it checked by default? Thanks for the information though.

Peace

  • drbeachboy
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #16
I'd like to become an expert user. So, could you please give an explanation. My assumption is that if I uncheck the box then all stays as was prior to the check box being there?
Surf's Up!
"Columnated Ruins Domino"

  • Case
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  • Developer (Donating)
foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #17
In earlier 1.1 betas converter always used decoded data if source format was DTS or HDCD and you had the appropriate components installed. In beta 3 default behavior remains the same. Now you just have the option to easily bypass them. Note that the option is only there if you have any such decoders installed.

  • drbeachboy
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #18
Thank you for the explanation, Case.
Surf's Up!
"Columnated Ruins Domino"

  • Anakunda
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foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #19
Disappointment here for not taking reflect to many users (justified) complains abt. new converter dull behaviour.
this is beta 3 already and nothing indicates to revert the old good UI style. I don;t understand at all what persuates authors for keeping the new style dlg 

  • kode54
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  • Administrator
foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #20
If you are using the converter dialog constantly, something is wrong. Namely, you're not making appropriate use of presets.

foobar2000 v1.1 beta 3
Reply #21
In earlier 1.1 betas converter always used decoded data if source format was DTS or HDCD and you had the appropriate components installed. In beta 3 default behavior remains the same. Now you just have the option to easily bypass them. Note that the option is only there if you have any such decoders installed.


Yeah, I figured as much. I added both components to in case I downloaded such audio. Thanks for the information.