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Topic: Build my own surround speakers (Read 13189 times) previous topic - next topic
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Build my own surround speakers

Hi All,

I am a woodworker who knows nothing about speakers and speaker design.

We are redecorating our family room and my wife just doesn't want me to mount our ugly surround speakers on the walls.  The placement of them is inconvenient anyway, due to the layout of the room.

So, I was thinking I would like to find some pretty small, inconspicuous speakers I could simply put on end tables already in the room.  I've seen the ads for Orb speakers, but these seem ridiculously expensive.  These speakers would be used only for surround played from DVD's, which I understand is fairly low power. 

Another good-looking one is the Mirage nanosat - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_653NSATBL/Mir...hdisplay=Mirage
But again, fairly expensive..

Ok.. so I was wondering if I could build a speaker enclosure out of some exotic hardwoods that would look nice and inconspicuous as well as do the job of satellite speaker.

My question (finally, you say!) is this:  Should I just pay for prebuilt ones?  Or, does this sound like a do-able DIY project?

I have seen some full-range speakers in 2 inch sizes that look like they would work for what I am thinking.. But so I need electronics as well?

Thanks in advance.. this is a pretty cool forum!   

Jerry J

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #2 –
Quote from: greynol on
Don't know if this helps, but I was unimpressed when demoing the Mirage Nanosat and chose Definitive Technology's ProMonitor 800 instead.


Thanks.

Those are quite a bit larger than I was hoping to find, however.

But, I will keep them in mind if I decide to go with something like that.  They have them at Best Buy, I believe, but there was no one around when I wanted a test listen alongside the Mirages.

Jerry

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #3 –
Yes, you can do it! The woodworking is the hard part!  But, some in-wall or in-ceiling speakers might be the solution  (example[/u]).  Using the wall cavity (or attic/crawl space) as a speaker cabinet will give you "bigger" sound.  (Although, you will have more sound leakage to other rooms.)

Speakers are the kind of DIY project that can really pay-off.  For a given price range, you can build speakers far better than you can buy.  (That's assuming that you don't count your labor or blow your budget on exotic wood.  )  The downside is that you don't really know what your speakers will sound like 'till you're done.

I suggest you get hold of a Parts Express[/u] catalog.  They have lots of speakers/drivers & speaker building stuff.  I find it easier and more fun to flip-through the printed catalog, than to browse online...  I also recommend that you pick-up a speaker building book from Parts Express or Amazon.  (I can't recommend a specific book...  I have a "good" speaker building book, but it's old, outdated, and out of print.)

Quote
I have seen some full-range speakers in 2 inch sizes that look like they would work for what I am thinking.. But so I need electronics as well?
A single 2" speaker will be "full range", and you don't need any electronics (other than your home theatre receiver).  With 2-way (woofer & tweeter) or 3-way (woofer, midrange, tweeter) you need a  crossover network[/u].  If you can wire-up a speaker (solder or crimp-on quick-disconnects) you can wire-up a crossover.  If you build a subwoofer, these usually need a separate amp which can optionally be built-into the speaker cabinet.

Quote
These speakers would be used only for surround played from DVD's, which I understand is fairly low power.
Well...  That depends...  it's better than nothing, but you're not going to get the full "theatre experience" with tiny 2" speakers!  A "proper" home-theatre system has 5 matched (large)  full-range speakers plus a subwoofer.  But, most most real living room systems use 5 small (or mid-size) speakers plus a subwoofer.  And since the the 5 smaller-sized speakers can't reproduce bass, the bass from these 5 channels is mixed with the 'point one' LFE (low frequency effects) bass and sent to the subwoofer.

Do you already have a subwoofer?  The tricky part about speaker building is getting good bass.  If you get a speaker building book, more than half of the book will be dedicated to bass-related cabinet design.  If you're building a woofer or subwoofer, download a copy of WinISD[/u] (FREE speaker design software).

P.S.
Quote
...my wife just doesn't want me to mount our ugly surround speakers on the walls.
  Somebody gave me a pair of "floor standing" speakers that I'm using as rear-channel speakers.  They have 15" woofers and are hanging from the wall by chains above/behind my couch!  ...I'm single...  My motto is, "No wife, no kids, no pets, no problems!"

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Jerry_J on
Those are quite a bit larger than I was hoping to find, however.

Unless you have a height constraint, they are only 1/2" wider and 1/4" deeper.

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #5 –
It's true that you can make reasonably nice speakers if you have a wood shop and know how to use it,but you need a design.

I'd check out Parts Express (www.partsexpress.com  no relation to me) for plans, maybe.

I design my own, but 30 years of experience helps that way.
-----
J. D. (jj) Johnston

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #6 –
Speaker building is a lot of fun for me. Some more links for you to check out:

http://zaphaudio.com/
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/

http://lautsprechershop.de/english/index_hifi.htm
You can find lots of projects from german magazines Klang+Ton and HobbyHIFI there, but I'm not sure if you can order all parts overseas.

Besides parts-express which I have nothing bad to say about, there's also http://www.madisound.com/.

Oh and another remark: You cannot design your own speakers without a lot of equipment, knowledge and experience. Stick with a kit.
Blubb

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #8 –
http://lautsprechershop.de/hifi/ct209_en.htm

These are the smallest speakers I can think of. They use a 3" full range and are a tad larger than the Mirage nanosat. I think I've never seen a DIY project with a 2" full range. You just can't cheat physics, the CT209 will surely deliver a better performance than any cheap (150-200$) 5.1 system (I built speakers with this driver myself and can recommend it). But a 3" fullrange is the bare minimum I consider suitable for good sound quality, and it will be severly restricted in (undistorted) volume. A 3" inch driver cannot even make the standard subwoofer crossover point of 80hz, which means you either live with that, or use a higher subwoofer lowpass (if your equipment allows you to do so) which creates problems with the placement of the woofer (could become locatable, depending on listening conditions).

Actually there's another project with a 2.5" inch fullrange coming to my mind: Picture1. Picture2. Plan. These are a bit smaller than the CT209. It's basically the Peerless FR2 (Order number: 830970) driver in this box without any crossover. I don't think it gets any smaller than that.

As for the wood: You should not built speaker enclosures out of real wood (wood lives, enclosure could become leaky. If you know how to prevent this, go ahead). Most use MDF board. You can always apply a nice veneer .
Blubb

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Jerry_J on
Should I just pay for prebuilt ones?  Or, does this sound like a do-able DIY project?

In your position I would say DIY is the way to go. If you are going to go for a single speaker then pretty much the only concern is building a box of the correct volume for the speaker. The size will be bigger for one with a port compared to one without but the former will play a bit deeper. The required size will be given by the speaker manufacturer.

Having said that, a 2" driver is pretty much the size of tweeter and cannot be recommended even for a surround setup. I would suggest at least a 4" size if small is an absolute must.

If you are posting from America and are leaning towards the DIY route I would suggest posting your question on the Parts Express forum. Many posters there are keen on cost effective DIY unlike most audiophile sites where expensive means good.

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #10 –
Quote
Oh and another remark: You cannot design your own speakers without a lot of equipment, knowledge and experience.
Sure you can!!!  And, a small speaker with a single full-range driver like Jerry's thinking about hardly needs any "design" at all!

With the "knowledge" from a speaker design book, someone who's comfortable with woodworking can design & build a fine 3-way system and/or a subwoofer.   

I do have quite a bit of knowledge & experience, but I've built speakers with no "equipment". 

 





Build my own surround speakers

Reply #11 –
Thanks, everyone!  I really appreciate all the suggestions.

I think I will go with a 3" full range speaker  (very possibly a Hi-Vi B3N) and experiment with mounting it in as small an enclosure as possible. 

I'll post back with some pics if I am able to get something working.

I also appreciate the advice about using MDF rather than wood.  But, since I am going for looks as much as sound I will no doubt veneer with some exotic hardwood.

Thanks again!

Jerry

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #12 –
MDF is great!  The idea is that a speaker should be non-resonant...  It shouldn't "ring" or have any sound of it's own.  (This is the opposite of what you want with a musical instrument.)  MDF is dense and tends to be non-resonant. 

If you can get your hands on a speaker building book, it should give you more confidence with these concepts.

But with a small cabinet, material is not so critical.    As you know from working with wood/materials, smaller dimensions are naturally stiffer.  If you make a large speaker, you need thicker, denser wood, and bracing to keep the cabinet from vibrating/resonating.  A smaller speaker is naturally much harder to flex, and if you have a small low-power driver, you don't have as much energy to cause vibrations.

Quote
...and experiment with mounting it in as small an enclosure as possible.
  Experimenting would be a good idea, especially if you want to go "as small as possible"....  As a rule, small things make high-pitched sounds and big things make low-pitched sounds...  If your cabinet (the volume behind the speaker) is too small, the speaker will sound small.    So, you might want to "mock-up" 2 or 3 different size speaker boxes, just to make sure you are not compromising too much.  With big speakers I wouldn't recommend building prototypes...  but with a small speaker, all you need is a few scraps of MDF!

While you're experimenting, try adding some  fiberglass or other sound-absorbing material inside the box to dampen internal resonances.  That should give you a more natural/nuetral sound.

For a small box, you are probably going to want a sealed box.  And with a sealed box, go ahead and experiment freely.  But if you want to try a ported/vented box, I suggest you download the WinISD software before you start cutting wood.


Build my own surround speakers

Reply #13 –
If you want to make your own speakers, I'd say go for it. But do read up on the subject (a lot) before you begin. It's just *just* a speaker in a box. There are many factors that affects the way a speaker sounds, like the size of the box, an open/closed box, port lengths/sizes (if open), filters etc.

I'd highly recommend designing the box using your selected drivers in an app the it. E.g. WinISD.
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Jerry_J on
I think I will go with a 3" full range speaker  (very possibly a Hi-Vi B3N) and experiment with mounting it in as small an enclosure as possible.

At least it is not a 2".

Quote from: Jerry_J on
I also appreciate the advice about using MDF rather than wood.  But, since I am going for looks as much as sound I will no doubt veneer with some exotic hardwood.

I would suggest checking the business about MDF. As I understood it, the argument against real wood was that it leaks. A larger ported design has a hole and so leaks do not matter. Smaller sealed designs need to leak a little bit or else the cone will be sucked/pushed towards one of its stops by the air trapped inside as the atmosphere changes.

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #15 –
Quote from: honestguv on
A larger ported design has a hole and so leaks do not matter.

It's been years since I built mu own speaker cabinet so someone correct me on this, but I though that the idea of the port was that it provides a phase inversion so that it reinforces the sound emanating from the cone rather than canceling it. The sound leaking through the walls of the cabinet would not have this phase inversion.

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #16 –
Most of my knownledge is from researching subwoofers, but I'm pretty sure most of it still applies to general speakers.

A closed speaker box lacks bass, as the driver will roll off at a high frequency. This is of course not a big downside for your small surround speakers. The great things about closed boxes are that the driver should be pretty precise and the cabinet can be roughly half as big as an optimal cabinet for a ported design. A downside is that the speaker can be harder to drive, but again this may be more of a problem with subs.

A ported design is in many ways more complex to build, because you will easily get attenuation in unwanted areas. As for subwoofers this could mean a high frequency peak at 200 or 300 hz. This can be adjusted by cabinet-size, port diameter, port length and probably other factors I've forgotten.

It should be a pretty easy task to make a 1-driver closed cabinet and it sounds like you will benefit from the smaller size. Still I recommend you to try out WinISD and input all your drivers specifications to design the right cabinet for you.
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #17 –
Quote from: pdq on
Quote from: honestguv on
A larger ported design has a hole and so leaks do not matter.

It's been years since I built mu own speaker cabinet so someone correct me on this, but I though that the idea of the port was that it provides a phase inversion so that it reinforces the sound emanating from the cone rather than canceling it. The sound leaking through the walls of the cabinet would not have this phase inversion.

The area that air leaks through natural wood is absolutely minute compared to the area of a speaker port. It is also minute for a sealed box so that when the speaker moves back effectively all the air trapped in the box compresses and only an irrelevant tiny amount leaks out through the wood to relieve the pressure.

Build my own surround speakers

Reply #18 –
Quote from: pdq on
Quote from: honestguv on
A larger ported design has a hole and so leaks do not matter.

It's been years since I built mu own speaker cabinet so someone correct me on this, but I though that the idea of the port was that it provides a phase inversion so that it reinforces the sound emanating from the cone rather than canceling it. The sound leaking through the walls of the cabinet would not have this phase inversion.


This is not strictly true. The mass of air in the port forms a resonant system with the springiness of the air in the box. The speaker excites the resonant system, and, if tuned to the right frequency, effectively extends the bass response of the speaker.

The problem with leaks is that leaks affect the tuning of the port resonant system. Imagine having significant leaks in your box. The springiness of the air would be quite different from a properly sealed (except for the port, of course) box. A different springiness will change the tuning frequency of the port and cause the bass response to deviant from the design.

Have a look at this design. It's not tiny, but it is small.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html