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Topic: What CBR is transparent on your music? (Read 10708 times) previous topic - next topic
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What CBR is transparent on your music?

I'm curious, on your normal songs(not training songs, or ping pong like clips{c44}), which --alt preset CBR is transparent to you? On your headphones or speakers. 128k, 160k, 192k, 224k, 256k, 320k? Just curious; I rarely do use MP3, but I'd like to see what's transparent on normal music to the audio nuts here    B). Thanks.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #1 –
--alt-preset standard is all I use, no point in anything else for me.  Car CD deck plays mp3s, and I'm not concerned with how much I can possible squeeze on one CD.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #2 –
--alt-preset cbr 192 does it for me, but I suspect 160 would also be OK to my ears.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #3 –
--alt-preset standard all I use but if I had to use CBR it would be 256 or perhaps 320. 
192 just doesn't cut it for me.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #4 –
Unless I am really listening (Mental Note: Need to do more of this), 224 is transparent

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #5 –
For me --alt-preset CBR 256 is trasparent.
But IMO it's difficult to reach "trasparency" with CBR..
[ Commodore 64 Forever...! ]

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #6 –
I think the best option is --alt preset CBR 192, size/quality

Quote
But IMO it's difficult to reach "trasparency" with CBR..

It's not hard just costs too much, API

My take,
If you use CBR less than 320kbps parts of the song that need more bits to perform optimally will artefact if you use API or CBR 320 you waste bits that's why VBR is used.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #7 –
Good short and concise summary.  If only everyone in the world applied that flawless logic as opposed to "Use VBR and compromise Quality?  Get stuffed!"

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #8 –
I just use APS and APE. CBR wastes space, and doesn't sound any better, however if I was to revert back to CBR it would be API and no less.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #9 –
"Normal" pop music (as can be encountered on Chart-Compilations) is fine with me when I use CBR192 ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #10 –
FHG CBR 192 for non-critical listening (critical=music that you listened a thousand times and know by heart, expecting each note to come in advance).

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #11 –
I'd have to say 224 or better 256. If someone remembers the legendary r3mix listening test  , the optimized 192 CBR setting was the one with the most obvious audible artifacts for most people (me included).

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #12 –
I can't help myself... but with --alt-preset insane --lowpass 21 I can live... sounds really good 

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #13 –
then you like cbr. coz the insane preset is CBR 320!! it's not vbr and therefore it's wasting lots of bits. but it's the best quality possible with mp3, coz the specifications limit mp3 to a maximum of 320 kbps.

but preset standard should be transparent for 99% of all ears.

cheers

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #14 –
To my ears Lame 3.90.2 or GoGo 3.11@ 256CBR sound pretty decent.


LIF
"Jazz washes away the dust of everyday life" (Art Blakey)

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #15 –
What amazes me is how many people have somehow managed to ignore the point and stated they only use VBR... 

I'm not quite sure what's transparent to me, probably 224-256kbps. 192 is getting annoying as far as quality and unfortunately it's what most people share...

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #16 –
Well sometime ago (2001) I did a proper listening test and found out Lame 3.90 @ 224 Kbps was good enough for most of the muzak I listen (Beatles, Elton John, Eric Clapton, Cream, Black Sabbath) that was only in complete songs, in test samples after 256 Kbps I couldn't manage to hear the difference.

For today's popular muzak (Britney Spears, N'sync, Backseat Boyz, Shakira) I'm pretty sure 48Kbps WMA is transparent. 

Anyway it doesn't really matter much to me now since I store ev'rything losslessly and transcode for at --alt-preset extreme for my portable
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #17 –
In most cases --alt-preset cbr 256 sounds pretty decent. For portable use --alt-preset 128 is fine too.

dev0
"To understand me, you'll have to swallow a world." Or maybe your words.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #18 –
Heh.

Even after training, over 10 people I tried said I was nuts or some sort of bat. Using --alt preset CBR 160 MP3s, normal headphones(some $40 ones at the store, good quality and sound) and a CD player. Most of ff123's training clips didn't even make anyone wonder. All I could show them that made them say "wow that sucks" was c44, then they just asked me "when are we gonna hear a screwed up ping pong game in music?". I bet --alt preset CBR 128 would be enough for most, since the artifacts are so subtle, or even if you breathe too loud you can't hear them.

Interesting results indeed.

EDIT; I tried this test again in a quieter room, they told the difference from 160k easy.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #19 –
Transparent is such a loaded word. 

Since you aren't going to get transparency from MP3, I'm going to say --alt-preset cbr 160. Maybe 192 because that bitrate has been so indoctrinated in our minds as "transparent". But really, 160kbps CBR will do the job unless you are bent on serious listening. If you use 256 or something it just seems like a waste for a flawed format that bitrate can't even save.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #20 –
That's why I like APE. No thinking involved.  B)

I wasn't going to use $150 headphones and a $500 soundcard, just a norma; over $100 panasonic CD player and $40 headphones that sounded damn good in the store. That is what people use, so that's what would matter. This site had led me to believe a lot more of transparency, when it really could be reached a lot lower for most music and conditions. My central heat is killing the MP3 artifacts they're so unnoticeable.

It is true, unless it's an easy choice(a finalized CD-R, where they won't fit on in WAV so you just use --alt preset insane for the MP3 CD and have a lot of space left, why not use the best bitrate?), as the flaws of MP3, while few, kill it no matter what bitrate you use. Maybe when Ogg Vorbis GT3 when it's done will make me believe in lossy formats..

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #21 –
I use --alt preset standard with mp3 and its transparent for me, but alt-preset cbr 192 is transparent for me for casual listening with rock/pop music, no abx tests, and I use cbr 192 at work, a FM radiostation, the automation software that we use have troubles showing the correct duration of vbr mp3 files  ,
MPC: --quality 10 --xlevel (v. 1.15s) (archive/transcoding)
MP3:  LAME 3.96.1 --preset standard (daily listening/portable)

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #22 –
In casual listening of studio-recorded music, I only detect very occasional artifacts with --alt-preset cbr 192.

However, live music for me would require 224 or higher to not be annoying.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #23 –
160 or 192 CBR for my heavy music is perfectly ok.

What CBR is transparent on your music?

Reply #24 –
Quote
Good short and concise summary.  If only everyone in the world applied that flawless logic as opposed to "Use VBR and compromise Quality?  Get stuffed!"

.