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Topic: Menu layout changes in v1.0 (Read 73763 times) previous topic - next topic
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Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #75 –
Quote from: smkk on
I think the reason the old way sucked was because it wasn't very user friendly (as in usability). For example it wasn't possible to create categories yourself...
Yes you could.


Quote from: smkk on
Personally i think if there was a userfriendly and intuitive context menu editor, then there would be no problem.
As far as the old system:
Quote from: shakey_snake on
Before it was much more of "a mess" because entry order was randomized based on the order the components were loaded on first run. Install fb2k four different times and you'd have four different context menus, until you were forced to re-arranged them.

as far as the new system:
Quote from: shakey_snake on
Quote from: kwanbis on
There is now. So, why don't do what is now being done, so there is a "default" menu structure, and allow advanced users to customize? Do you think it would still be a problem?
It would be unnecessarily complex and/or messy to implement.
i.e. it's just not technically feasible.

Seriously, if we can't be bothered to read the things that are already posted, is there any reason to keep this thread open?
elevatorladylevitateme

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #76 –
Quote from: smkk on
just the ability to re-arrange things via drag & drop, rename items and create/delete categories.

like the old one, where the only thing that I disliked was that tree was always expanded so you needed to collapse it until you find your way

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #77 –
Quote from: smkk on
Personally i think if there was a userfriendly and intuitive context menu editor, then there would be no problem. I'm not talking about the ability to add new commands or anything fancy, just the ability to re-arrange things via drag & drop, rename items and create/delete categories.


I think that would lead to some of those support nightmares that were mentioned earlier.

Scenario #1:
User gets on the forum and asks: "Hey....I just tried to use the command of Context Menu -> Created Category -> Renamed Item and it doesn't work!!" Nobody is going to know what this user is talking about & a lot of time is going to be wasted on figuring out what command he renamed & what it is he's trying to do & what command he really should be using.

Scenario #2:
User gets on the forum and asks: "Hey...how do I do such-and-such action? I've looked all over and I can't find it!!" Too bad the user forgot that two months ago he deleted that command from the context menu & that's why he can't find it now. Now valuable support time has to be wasted while the user is talked through the process of re-adding the command back where it's supposed to go.

For every user who would use a customizable context menu responsibly and effectively there's ten numbnuts out there who wouldn't and would clog the forums with needless support requests to have their fat rescued from the fire. Sometimes a little power must be given up for the benefit of all in the long run as it will keep the twits in check.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #78 –
Quote from: Innuendo_ on
Scenario #1:
User gets on the forum and asks: "Hey....I just tried to use the command of Context Menu -> Created Category -> Renamed Item and it doesn't work!!"
This scenario is not possible in the current (stable) version, because you can't rename an item.

 
Quote from: Innuendo_ on
Scenario #2:
User gets on the forum and asks: "Hey...how do I do such-and-such action? I've looked all over and I can't find it!!" Too bad the user forgot that two months ago he deleted that command from the context menu
This scenario is still possible with the new (beta) version. So nothing changed here.

 
Quote from: Innuendo_ on
Sometimes a little power must be given up for the benefit of all in the long run as it will keep the twits in check.
I don't see any benefit here and I also don't agree with the argument of the "support burden". Of course, from time to time there were some questions regarding the context menu. But you really can't say that the forum was flooded with such questions.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #79 –
I think it would be nice to have the ability to move context menu options up or down on the Context Menu settings page.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #80 –
Quote from: fbuser on
This scenario is not possible in the current (stable) version, because you can't rename an item.


I know this is not possible, but someone was requesting that it be possible & I was explaining why his request will most likely never come to pass.

Quote
This scenario is still possible with the new (beta) version. So nothing changed here.


Au contraire, but something has changed. Now the support team can point to a definite known menu path confident in the knowledge that the menu structure has not been changed. It's quite a big change, IMHO.

Quote
I don't see any benefit here and I also don't agree with the argument of the "support burden". Of course, from time to time there were some questions regarding the context menu. But you really can't say that the forum was flooded with such questions.


One man's flood is another man's trickle. Shakey_snake posted a google search link of context menu problems posted in the HydrogenAudio forums. I guess to the moderators and Peter that constitutes a large enough flood to warrant the re-writing of the code. I know this must have been deemed to be a serious problem by Peter as no programmer wants to spend his time rewriting code. He wants to spend it working on new clever features. And for this clever feature (the context menu configurability) to be removed there must have been an issue as no programmer wants to have to resort to dumbing down his program, either.

I could maybe see this feature coming back at a later date, but being very hard to get to. For instance, having to add an .ini entry or a registry key. And then on first run after Foobar would throw up a dialog box as big as one's screen stating the user uses this feature at their own peril, that support will not be provided, and that if you insist on proceeding hit OK, or otherwise hit Cancel & the .ini entry or registry key will be erased and all will proceed normally.

Regardless, I can see why this feature was removed. More accurately, I can see how Peter & the other developers determined why this needed to be removed.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #81 –
Quote from: Innuendo_ on
Quote
This scenario is still possible with the new (beta) version. So nothing changed here.

Au contraire, but something has changed. Now the support team can point to a definite known menu path confident in the knowledge that the menu structure has not been changed. It's quite a big change, IMHO.
But not for the scenario you described. You still have to accomplish support. Further, for finding a removed menu item, the path is always the same, only the order within a menu may has changed, but that doesn't affect the menu path.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #82 –
Peter and the guys must have had reason to remove the option. However, it simply ruined the context menu usability for the advanced half of the users.

There are some actions I never use, and some actions I use often enough to curse when going through 3 levels. It feels like Microsoft's "create new briefcase here" context menu approach. Less headache for the devs, for sure.

I pray to Ktulhu there be a plugin, as I don't want to create a new briefcase. Yes, I'm a weirdo.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #83 –
What takes "3 levels" to go through that you use so often?

Is it really impossible to see how that is just as, if not more important feedback than complaining about something that's not likely to change?
elevatorladylevitateme

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #84 –
Quote from: Innuendo_ on
Now the support team can point to a definite known menu path confident in the knowledge that the menu structure has not been changed. It's quite a big change, IMHO.

I think a "reset context menu action" should be much better. And we can then keep the reorganization.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #85 –
Quote from: shakey_snake on
What takes "3 levels" to go through that you use so often?


Tagging > Scripts > Script
Utilities > Text tools > Tool
...

And I said I know I'm a weirdo. Nobody uses those. Plus, they are not that far, so I should shut up.

Quote from: shakey_snake on
complaining about something that's not likely to change


The summary of my post was: "1. Acknowledgment of the devs reasons 2. Short criticism 3. Hope for a plugin"
Nobody expects Peter to change it, one might just hope the plugin is possible.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #86 –
Quote from: skyfish on
Quote from: shakey_snake on
What takes "3 levels" to go through that you use so often?


Tagging > Scripts > Script
Utilities > Text tools > Tool
...

And I said I know I'm a weirdo. Nobody uses those. Plus, they are not that far, so I should shut up.

Well, i must be weirdo too then, cause i use:
Tagging > Scripts > Script
File Operations > Move To > Script

Quote from: skyfish on
Nobody expects Peter to change it, one might just hope the plugin is possible.

yes, there is hope

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #87 –
Programs that are in beta often have features that are removed before the final release. Sometimes they come back & sometimes they don't. Sometimes features being removed is not the popular choice. That's just the way the world of beta software works.

It's not like the devs are closed to any ideas on this issue. It was said to feel free to make any suggestions you want that you feel would make the situation better just so long as you don't suggest bringing the old way back.

So what's everybody do? They suggest bringing the old way back.

I understand that a lot of you have been using your customized menus a long time and you are used to them, but with all due respect, you could write your own audio player from scratch with custom menus that work the way you wanted them to before custom context menus come back in foobar2000.

So please follow Shakey_Snake's advice. Suggest enhancements for the existing context menus as they stand right now. No amount of complaining or attempting to reason will bring the old way back. Any attempts to do so are just wastes of time & bandwidth.

I don't think the mods & the devs can put it any simpler or more plain.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #88 –
Suggestion

What about normal click still being totally configurable like it was, while shift-click (or similar) brings up a full standardized menu (for the support burden problem). And maybe add an option in preferences to swap click actions.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #89 –
The reason context menu customization was changed has nothing to do with easing support. Old menu order was completely random and looked horrible out of the box.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #90 –
A foobar user is someone who is focused on the details strongly enough not to use a mainstream player. It is very natural that people get disappointed when a core feature gets removed.

We, who are disappointed, are not the bad people. We are loyal, grateful users, who like Peter and some even press the donate button every now and then.  Can we please feel disappointed for a little while on a feature removal?

P.S. Innuendo_, I hope that sounded better in your head.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #91 –
Altough the "Write your own player" argument is out of line, I still agree with the overall message of _Innuendo's post. It's very likely that the old customizable menu structure wont come back ever no matter how much people bitch and moan about it on this forum.

foobar2000 has done this before. There was equally much complaining when certain third party components didn't work anymore. And there are still people sitting on the *****UI fence. You could also use the "write your own UI component that does it right" argument. But that has never been done has it?

People will still bitch and moan no matter what you do. Only thing you can do is to please the majority (makes most sense).

I never changed the order of the menu items so this change suits me very well. But I'm not using ******UI either.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #92 –
Quote from: saivert on
foobar2000 has done this before. There was equally much complaining when certain third party components didn't work anymore. And there are still people sitting on the *****UI fence. You could also use the "write your own UI component that does it right" argument. But that has never been done has it?

People will still bitch and moan no matter what you do. Only thing you can do is to please the majority (makes most sense).

We are not moaning,  but giving out thoughts and options we think could be used.

I still remember when fb2k had buttons with ascii chars, and it was said that it would never have a modern gui.

So basically, we are letting know the devs it is a problem to some, so at least they can consider it.

If we don't they could just assume all is fine.

Again, if i have to, i would have to adapt to the new structure. But if i have any saying, i rather have the old menu back.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #93 –
I actually quite like the new system, being able to see everything with shift+click is really useful. I kind of miss custom grouping, but I can live without it.

How about: if an item inside a group is checked but the group is not checked, the item appears on the main context menu instead of inside the group. That way Skyfish and kwanbis could uncheck Tagging but check Scripts, and go Right click>Scripts>Script.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #94 –
That is a very good idea. Don't know if doable.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #95 –
I personally think that if anything, an additional feature to "pin" a few most used, but maybe often deeply burried, items to the top of the menu, maybe in user-defined order, could be feasible. But rather only because I can see different people have different usage habits, I don't really know what I would put there.
Full-quoting makes you scroll past the same junk over and over.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #96 –
That is sort of a favorites menu, which i like, and already suggested, but was told it was rejected.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #97 –
Sure it was. And early 0.9.7 didn't have the context menu preferences page at all and that was rejected as well.
Just change my "an additional feature" to "that additional feature".
Full-quoting makes you scroll past the same junk over and over.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #98 –
Quote from: saivert on
Altough the "Write your own player" argument is out of line...


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make it sound like "Well, if you don't like the new way then go write your own player". What I was trying to convey was in the time it would take you to write your own player (or any other program) you would probably have the software project finished before custom menus made a come-back in foobar2000.

Again, sorry if anyone was offended & misread my meaning. It wasn't as clearly written as it could have been. I need to keep in mind that for a lot of people here English is not their first language so I need to be more precise in how I phrase my words.

Menu layout changes in v1.0

Reply #99 –
I was wondering if the Scripts submenu, can be made a menu, so the scripts are not 3 clicks away, and maybe, also, make it so we can even select the scripts to appear without SHIFT.