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Topic: Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL (Read 21894 times) previous topic - next topic
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Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Hello folks.

Well, I am searching for a solution to my problem for about 2 months. I posted in forums and actually get no response. I don't know if it is hard to that limit to fix. Many people suggested me to try HydrogenAudio as they are expert in the Audio field.

OK, I am a guitar player. I transport a lot. I have a Toshiba Qosmio X300-158 Laptop with Realtek ALC272 High Definition Audio Codecs. The laptop is running on Vista Home Premium SP1. As you know ALC272 is a chipset do it doesn't have its own ASIO drivers. I installed the Universal ASIO4ALL drivers to use it with Guitar Rig 3. It acts like my own guitar processor, I plug my guitar into the line in jack and everything works fine. I tried to play with a song at the background. And the problem started here. I can't run sounds while ASIO4ALL is using the speakers. I have to disable it temporarily first. I have tried many audio apps, like Foobar with WASAPI enabled, J River as well, WinAmp. No luck with any of them.

I have an Old PC in my home that has a Mercury motherboard. It uses AC'97 drivers. It is running on Windows XP MCE 2005 SP2. i didn't face that problem at all. I can run what i want. I had another old Toshiba Satellite A110 laptop. It doesn't have that problem. Only, Guitar Rig 3 (ASIO4ALL) needs to start first, then I can play songs as many as I can with Windows Media player.

So could anyone help me ? Is vista the problem ? or my ALC272 doesn't support Multiple Streaming ? I don't think an old laptop will have a better Audio chipset than the Qosmio's.

I just ran out of choices.

Thank you.. All my hopes are in your hands now

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #1 –
asio4all uses kernel streaming. kernel streaming takes exclusive control of the device bypassing windows mixer. so if the hardware doesn't support hardware mixing, you can't run anything else while asio4all is running. not sure why it worked with your old pc

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #2 –
Hmm... maybe virtual audio cable could work for you in this case.

http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.html

Another (maybe even better) way to go is to use the VST(/DX?)  version of GR3 ... on a software which lets you load audio file(s) in and is ASIO compatible (in this case).

Try Cockos Reaper as for an example.

http://www.reaper.fm/


Juha

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #3 –
Quote from: fuflo on
asio4all uses kernel streaming. kernel streaming takes exclusive control of the device bypassing windows mixer. so if the hardware doesn't support hardware mixing, you can't run anything else while asio4all is running. not sure why it worked with your old pc


Is there a way to check if it supports Kernel Streaming or not ? Perhaps vista is the problem in the first place ?

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #4 –
Thanks you Juha and Fuflo. Both of you had helped in a different part. Well there is good news and bad news.

Good news : I installed Kernel Streaming plugin for Winamp. I tried it and it workes along with ASIO4ALL. It uses the Virtual Audio Cable Application to work.

Bad news: No sound is there neither alone nor with ASIO4ALL.

Foobar Kernal Streaming plugin seems to be not working in the first place, So I will stick with Winamp. But now How I can make the KS plugin works with sound on Winamp ??

With Foobar Direct Sound with Virtual Audio Cable, there is no sound either neither alone nor with ASIOALL. So I think there is a way to make Virtual Cable produces sound.

Thank you guys.. Heads up. I feel better now

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #5 –
I couldn't edit, So I have to double post. .Sorry

I played a song, i found that the sound is working in Line 1 (Recording) not playback ! i think that illustrates why I can't listen to any audio..


With Winamp playing a song ! No sound...



Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Yamadron on
I played a song, i found that the sound is working in Line 1 (Recording) not playback ! i think that illustrates why I can't listen to any audio..


you probably need to enable "listen to this device" on recording tab, in properties. not sure though.
basically you need to turn on "monitoring", since by default monitoring is disabled to disable echo

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #7 –
Quote from: fuflo on
Quote from: Yamadron on
I played a song, i found that the sound is working in Line 1 (Recording) not playback ! i think that illustrates why I can't listen to any audio..


you probably need to enable "listen to this device" on recording tab, in properties. not sure though.
basically you need to turn on "monitoring", since by default monitoring is disabled to disable echo


How to enable "listen to this device". It is already set as default device. Check my edited post
Nothing about "listen to this device" in properties...

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #8 –
Hmm... I suppose on Vista the "Playback" device needs to be set to Speakers (on XP there's a Audio Device (I have Sound Max)). Also, samplerate needs to be set equally on both software.

I tried this with NI Kontakt 3 and WMP ... worked well. But, as the Vista is maybe different from XP ...

EDIT:
You could try to route both (GR3 and mediaplayer) to output through 3rd software (Reaper as for an example) using Virtual Cable  ...
(I don't know why but, sometimes the Asio4All closes the soundcard input port after some change on A4A Control Panel.)


Juha

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Juha on
Hmm... I suppose on Vista the "Playback" device needs to be set to Speakers (on XP there's a Audio Device (I have Sound Max)). Also, samplerate needs to be set equally on both software.

I tried this with NI Kontakt 3 and WMP ... worked well. But, as the Vista is maybe different from XP ...



Juha


yes, i think same too. Vista is very different from XP. I tried making "Speakers" as default but same result.  If i found How to make VAC produces sound. the problem will be solved. I will assign VAC with GR3 and Defaul Speakers with other apps.

What is strange. I assigned VAC as an input and Default Speakers as an output in GR3 and I can listen to Foobar through GR3 itself. As soon as I change the output to VAC, I can no longer hear anything..

Thanks for the help, Fuflo and Juha. I will keep you updated if i came up with any news 

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #10 –
Guys. I finally made it work. Thank you Juha for the VAC suggestion. That really helped. but now I am facing a huge problem.. LATENCY... There is noticable latency,, it seems to be from VAC itself.. how can i reduce it .. ASIO4ALL was working on 14 ms latency..

That is the routing I am using..

For Guitar Rig 3 (ASIO4ALL)
Line in Input > Virtual Audio Cable Output

For Audio Repeater
Virtual Audio Cable Input > Speakers

All i need to know how to achieve low latency...

You guys are great... Thank you

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #11 –
Audio Repeater is the culprit for extra latency. You can set it min. 50 ms (total buffer) and that's maybe too low for clear audio.



Juha

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #12 –
Well without all this hassale. ASIO4ALL uses Kernel Streaming. After reading the documentation of Kernel Streaming, it
stated quite that it may not be supported after XP. Kernel Streaming was considered a temporary solution until the audio stack could be re-written to remove the limitations that required it in the first place.

So Vista will not succeed to do it. So I will install XP beside it for my guitar practice.

All thanks for the help. I am sorry for wasting your time. My apologizes

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #13 –
In your situation, I would start using the VST version rather than what you are going to do. VST version is bundled w/ the GR package.

The GR3 VST (and DX if this is still there)  version is just the same as the standalone version is (without I/O options). Load GR3 into, lets say, Reapers FX slot and load the audiotrack as well (use another track) ... etc. (you can record your quitar playing (wet (the GR3 output) or dry (clean guitar sound )) as well, add another effect ... etc. ... record input (dry) and then tweak the sound afterwards by adding GR3 (or another effects)) - Through KVR Plug-in database, you'll find more effect plug-ins to use - http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php

Reaper is quite easy to set up for this task of yours.

Juha

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Juha on
In your situation, I would start using the VST version rather than what you are going to do. VST version is bundled w/ the GR package.

The GR3 VST (and DX if this is still there)  version is just the same as the standalone version is (without I/O options). Load GR3 into, lets say, Reapers FX slot and load the audiotrack as well (use another track) ... etc. (you can record your quitar playing (wet (the GR3 output) or dry (clean guitar sound )) as well, add another effect ... etc. ... record input (dry) and then tweak the sound afterwards by adding GR3 (or another effects)) - Through KVR Plug-in database, you'll find more effect plug-ins to use - http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php

Reaper is quite easy to set up for this task of yours.

Juha


Sorry for my ignorance, Juha.. How I'd know if my GR3 version is a VST version. I have a "VSTPlugin" Folder in there.

Well, I didn't understand you quite well. Will Il be able to play "Live" with this way. Like Playing on guitar while listening to a song at same time..

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Yamadron on
Sorry for my ignorance, Juha.. How I'd know if my GR3 version is a VST version. I have a "VSTPlugin" Folder in there.

Well, I didn't understand you quite well. Will I will be able to play "Live" with this way. Like Playing on guitar while listening to a song at same time.. I am very pissed off. I can't even play youtube and play WMP at the same time.. 

EDIT: Well, it seems i have no choice but to work with you. I would like some illustration. If you could send me your e-mail to contact you. If there is a problem with that, no problem we can keep it here.. Thanks Juha.


Yes, as VST, you'll be able to use GR3 just the way you do with the stand alone version ... .

Download and install Reaper - http://www.reaper.fm/

- check that you have the VST version of GR3 installed (IIRC, Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins\ is the default installation folder) ... if it's not installed then just reinstall the GR3 and select the VST version to become installed as well

- run Reaper, let it scan plug-ins (if it ask this), set audio device options (asio4all, Inputs / Outputs)

TRACK 1
- insert your audio file (Insert -> Media file...) ... Reaper supports many audio formats
- play the file so you see if your audio settings are OK

TRACK 2
- create another track (Track -> Insert track) and prepare it for input the quitar signal
--- (right_mouse_click the [ar] button found on this guitar track header),  from pop-up menu, select either stereo or mono input,
--- activate the same menu again just like before or by pressing the tiny button nearest to the tiny speaker icon on track header and select either record input or record output,
--- click the tiny speaker icon on track header so it becomes white (monitoring ON)
--- load the GR3 by pressing the [FX] -button on guitar track options (if GR3 is not listed there on selection list then you need to add new plug-in search path (Options--> Preferences->Plugins->VST)
--- enable FX (button become green)
--- arm the track for recording by activating the [ar] button for quitar track
--- set levels
- press play button, if you like to just play within the loaded background music or record button if you want to record your guitar playing (remember that the GR3 output is recorded when you select record output instead of record input (see above))


If everything went well, you should get what you're after.


Juha

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #16 –
Thanks Juha.. That solved part of the problem. Although, I can't run "Guitar Pro" for the tabs and music sheets, that solved playing songs along with the guitar. Anyway, I will upgrade to Windows 7 soon. I will test XP first, I want to know where is the problem. Is it Vista or my audio chipset ? I hope Windows 7's kernel is much better. Vista is a crap in my opinion.

Juha, Thanks buddy. You saved my day

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #17 –
IMO, what you need is an audio interface (which has Hi-Z input for your guitar (if you don't already have extarnal mixer or DIBox)).
USB, FireWire or PCI/PCIe ... from Creative E-MU (! no soundblaster cards), M-Audio, RME, etc., ... .

I don't think the Windows 7 resolves your issue (I had the preview version of W7 installed 'bout three months ...).


Juha

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Juha on
IMO, what you need is an audio interface (which has Hi-Z input for your guitar (if you don't already have extarnal mixer or DIBox)).
USB, FireWire or PCI/PCIe ... from Creative E-MU (! no soundblaster cards), M-Audio, RME, etc., ... .

I don't think the Windows 7 resolves your issue (I had the preview version of W7 installed 'bout three months ...).


Juha



Hey Juha, Thanks again.

My Laptop has a IEEE 1394. So I think I could get a Creative card.. What do you suggest ?
I heard about M-Audio USB Controllers for guitars. What do you think ? Which is better ?


For a laptop, USB would be easier and cheaper I think, Something like M-Audio Jam Lab or Behringer UCG102 for example ? I can't afford something expensive for the moment

I think Jam lab supports ASIO 2, VST and WDM Drivers. That is good for me.

I can't afford something expensive for the moment. If they won't be able to be good enough. I will install XP for the moment and save up for a IK Multimedia Stealth Pedal USB-Powered Guitar Audio Interface/Software Controller  . I was in need for a pedal for guitar rig. So I can get both needs in one.

As far as I know, Vista has no Kmixer. So Win7 will be the same. So it won't work.

Thanks again

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Yamadron on
Hey Juha, Thanks again.

My Laptop has a IEEE 1394. So I think I could get a Creative card.. What do you suggest ?
I heard about M-Audio USB Controllers for guitars. What do you think ? Which is better ?

For a laptop, USB would be easier and cheaper I think, Something like M-Audio Jam Lab or Behringer UCG102 for example ? I can't afford something expensive for the moment

I think Jam lab supports ASIO 2, VST and WDM Drivers. That is good for me.

I can't afford something expensive for the moment. If they won't be able to be good enough. I will install XP for the moment and save up for a IK Multimedia Stealth Pedal USB-Powered Guitar Audio Interface/Software Controller  . I was in need for a pedal for guitar rig. So I can get both needs in one.

As far as I know, Vista has no Kmixer. So Win7 will be the same. So it won't work.

Thanks again


This thread is becoming way out of it's subject ...

Hmm.. Creative does not have FireWire (IEEE 1394) compatible devices available (yet). They have couple USB interfaces which of 0202 USB and Tracker Pre are not very expensive. Don't chooce from those low budged FireWire interfaces ....
What I've read 'bout IK's Stealth pedal ... it should be OK, so should be the JamLab as well. You just need to decide what you need and if you need the device for other purposes as well. What if you later decide to record through microphone ... is there microphone preamp(s) available ? ... etc.) ... .

Most audio interfaces coming from PRO audio gear manufacturers are good-excellent for the task it's done for. By reading support forums on their product pages you should get the best information over possible issues (check also Steinbergs, Cakewalks forums as well).

When selecting the audio interface for instrument input, just keep in mind that there is a native ASIO compatibility listed on features (for USB systems it's a must because of nature of USB devices). Also, Hi-Z is needed for direct guitar input.

When you have two audio interfaces in use, you can set one software (Guitar Pro) input/output through onboard sound (not necessarily need ASIO for playback only) and the other software through the 2nd audio device I/Os. This is possible because most software lets to set I/O devices manually. Only problem is if the onboard chip becomes disabled when another audio device is recognized ... (this normally happens if your 2nd card is type of PCI/PCIe ... maybe PCIMCIA/ExpressCard as well ... should not be an issue with FireWire nor USB systems).


Juha

Multiple Streaming with ASIO4ALL

Reply #20 –
Yeah. i think so too..

Thanks Juha for all the help. All respect buddy. 

I hope you are not pissed of me because of asking too much questions. 

I think the thread could be closed now.