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Topic: Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour (Read 13182 times) previous topic - next topic
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Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour


I have an 80GB iPod Video 5th generation and successfully installed the appropriate version (actually 30GB, to be safe) onto my iPod; I am able to upload (via iTunes) all of my mp3/mp4 files into my iPod and then format the iPod which now features the Rockbox software so that the now Rockbox iPod displays my songs.

However, despite hours of reading, experimentation, and looking on youtube, I have not yet been able to have iTunes either look like Rockbox (just as the iPod's interface does) or able to enable iTunes to accept .FLAC files.

As mentioned: I am able to install the Rockbox software onto the iPod; everytime I add songs to my iPod (directly, as I never enter them into the iTunes library, but directly into the iPod by dragging and dropping the mp3/mp4 tracks into the device itself)...but everytime I add songs to my iPod, I disconnect the iPod device and have the iPod running Rockbox initialize again to recognize the newly added mp3s/mp4s.

I feel as though that I should by able to connect my iPod device and choose between opening iTunes and opening, instead, a literally Rockbox interface on my (windows) computer; or at least be able to see evidence of iTunes working with Rockbox.

What am I doing wrong?  Can I get my .flac files into my iPod?  Someone, in a blog, wrote of creating a folder directly on the iPod drive (without saying where...in the hidden music folder?) and I don't know if this would work, but if it would, it would take forever for files to be transferred that way.

I hope someone will reply to this - it would be greatly appreciated and, likely, useful to many with the same question - if you do reply, please explain all details (because the individual who made the suggestion about entering them directly through "browsing them in" and so on didn't explain his solution, which who knows? may work).

Thanks,
Steve

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #1 –
Quote from: njbiology on
I have an 80GB iPod Video 5th generation and successfully installed the appropriate version (actually 30GB, to be safe) onto my iPod; I am able to upload (via iTunes) all of my mp3/mp4 files into my iPod and then format the iPod which now features the Rockbox software so that the now Rockbox iPod displays my songs.

However, despite hours of reading, experimentation, and looking on youtube, I have not yet been able to have iTunes either look like Rockbox (just as the iPod's interface does) or able to enable iTunes to accept .FLAC files.

Rockbox is not a skin for the iPod's interface.
It is a complete firmware replacement, using no aspect of the original iPod OS.
This is an apparent misunderstanding on your part which leads you to expect iTunes to gain the capabilities of Rockbox.


Quote from: njbiology on
As mentioned: I am able to install the Rockbox software onto the iPod; everytime I add songs to my iPod (directly, as I never enter them into the iTunes library, but directly into the iPod by dragging and dropping the mp3/mp4 tracks into the device itself)...but everytime I add songs to my iPod, I disconnect the iPod device and have the iPod running Rockbox initialize again to recognize the newly added mp3s/mp4s.

I feel as though that I should by able to connect my iPod device and choose between opening iTunes and opening, instead, a literally Rockbox interface on my (windows) computer; or at least be able to see evidence of iTunes working with Rockbox.

iTunes does not even know Rockbox exists.
Rockbox, however, knows iTunes exists.
IF you use the Rockbox database function it will find the hidden files iTunes places on your iPod and will display them to you based on their tags.  You do have tagged audio files, do you not?

Quote from: njbiology on
What am I doing wrong?  Can I get my .flac files into my iPod?  Someone, in a blog, wrote of creating a folder directly on the iPod drive (without saying where...in the hidden music folder?) and I don't know if this would work, but if it would, it would take forever for files to be transferred that way.

Stop reading random third-party crap online and get you a copy of (Rockbox's) our excellent manual - then get answers to your remaining questions on our (Rockbox's) forums.
iTunes does not recognize, and will not manage FLAC files.  You need to either manually place them on your player or find another management program.

Quote from: njbiology on
I hope someone will reply to this - it would be greatly appreciated and, likely, useful to many with the same question - if you do reply, please explain all details (because the individual who made the suggestion about entering them directly through "browsing them in" and so on didn't explain his solution, which who knows? may work).

"who knows"?  Did you try it?
And, snidely, I don't think many have the same questions, as most seem to have gone to our actual website and learned that Rockbox is a complete firmware replacement for all sorts of DAPs, not simply an iPod modification of the OF.

PS - the difference between the 30GB and 80GB iPod 5th gen versions is simply in the amount of RAM Rockbox uses.  IF you have one of the (rare) 80GB iPod Videos which actually has a 30GB mainboard, you will quickly have "data abort" errors, as the 30GB models have 32MB of RAM while the 60/80GB models shipped with 64MB.
Creature of habit.

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #2 –
Quote from: njbiology on
However, despite hours of reading, experimentation, and looking on youtube, I have not yet been able to have iTunes either look like Rockbox (just as the iPod's interface does) or able to enable iTunes to accept .FLAC files.


If I understand you correctly, you've replaced the firmware on your device so that you can play FLAC files on it.  That sounds like a drastic solution to me, even had it not resulted in the inconveniences you needed to seek help about.

Added to which you've now been insulted by a someone who - apparently - has something to do with this software.  He must have been reading How to win friends and influence people.

Now if you want a lossless format then FLAC is a very good choice, because, as the FLAC site claims, "FLAC stands out as the fastest and most widely supported lossless audio codec".  However, it's not supported in the device in question, and - to be frank - are you sure you'd gain anything from using a lossless format on your portable player?  If your usage pattern is like most people's, you'll be listening through earbuds of acceptable but not good quality, and possibly on the move where there's ambient noise.  Could you tell the difference even in ideal listening circumstances and with high-grade audio equipment between a medium-to-high bitrate file and a lossless one?  Even at all times and with all material?  If not, there's far less reason to use the format on a portable.

This isn't what you asked - so sorry for intruding something at a tangent to your post - but my advice is to cut your losses.  Convert those files to a lossy format suitable for portable use, such as MP3 or AAC, and be done with the problem.

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #3 –
I have to post this, a bit off-topic, because it concerns me.  Although "njbiology's" post seems a bit naive, and possibly a bit lazy, I don't see anything wrong with it.  I have an issue with "soap's" response, in that it is a bit snarky and negative.  I'm sure that getting the same question over and over and over can be frustrating (it seems that many of the posts on HA are cyclical (wild claims about 24/96, questions about soundcards, how to use EAC, what bitrate mp3 to use, etc.)), but the tough responses can be, well, tough.  The fact that "njbiology" has actually expanded his/her horizons and installed Rockbox is a step in a different direction, which is good, but I can understand how this could be frustrating and overwhelming.  True, the post shows that he/she probably didn't read/download the manual, and possibly he/she is looking for a quick fix, but at least he/she found this site with it's many knowledgeable posters.

Just my two cents.

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Nick E on
are you sure you'd gain anything from using a lossless format on your portable player?


That is what I was going to ask.  I frequent a different set of forums dedicated to iPods.  I often see people asking questions about the best format to use and someone always suggests Apple lossless since it is lossless.  These people do not conduct blind ABX tests or anything like that.  Even after reasoning with them for a few pages, they still insist on carrying around lossless files on their portable player.

Just to add to the possibility of not hearing the benefits of lossless, the iPod's battery playback time will be drastically decreased.  RockBox already decreases the playback time of a 5.5G iPod and using FLAC files will drastically reduce it further.  I would be surprised if you get anywhere near 10-12 hours of playback time on a single charge.  Is carrying around FLAC really worth all that?  Performance would be slightly better if you used ALAC since the iPod's default firmware supports it but battery playback time would still be drastically decreased when compared to even 320kbps mp3/AAC files (which aren't recommended either).  Back when the 5G and 5.5G iPods were new, Apple recommended that people use a bitrate that produced files less than 9MB in size.  They no longer say this with the newer iPods as their battery playback times really aren't affected by using 256kbps audio (which produces files that have an average size of 8-9MB depending on song length).

Edit: I can also understand Soap's frustration.  Someone downloaded a new firmware without reading up on what they were actually downloading.  It is like reformatting and installing Linux on a PC and then complain that Linux can't run "common" programs.  That is information that should have been obtained with prior research (which takes about 5 minutes to conduct).  Additionally, njbiology has been with hydrogenaudio for almost two years now.  Expectations are higher for people who have been here for a longer time.  Had njbiology just registered and this was there first post, I imagine that Soap would have cut them some slack.

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #5 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Edit: I can also understand Soap's frustration.  Someone downloaded a new firmware without reading up on what they were actually downloading.  It is like reformatting and installing Linux on a PC and then complain that Linux can't run "common" programs.  That is information that should have been obtained with prior research (which takes about 5 minutes to conduct).  Additionally, njbiology has been with hydrogenaudio for almost two years now.  Expectations are higher for people who have been here for a longer time.  Had njbiology just registered and this was there first post, I imagine that Soap would have cut them some slack.


You're right, and I apologize to soap on this one.  Still though, it seems that on many of the forums I peruse, everyone has a case of the grumpies.  And, there is a very strong correlation between grumpiness and audio forums (ESPECIALLY when it comes to needledroppers!).

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #6 –
I swear I wasn't as grumpy as I likely came across.

The issue I had/have, however is that Rockbox goes to great lengths to provide a detailed manual, FAQs, and wiki, all full of static information.
Rockbox also has an attentive forum for questions and help. 
All of this @ rockbox.org.  Not @ SomeRandomName.forgetableurl.com.

Point is Rockbox spends a huge amount of effort in an attempt to "control" the discussion, in that nothing is more harmful for an end user than having the best source of (mis)information be a collection of random blogs and YouTube videos.

I see five pseudo-paragraphs by me.  1, 2, and 5 are insulting to no one.  3 is insulting to no one unless my lack of an appropriate emotion insinuates at intended insult leveled at the reader, not at the quoted "blog" who "hooked up" the OP.  4, however seems to show my defensiveness at the insinuation that Rockbox is somehow too complex to be figured out by "many".


I'm very curious what I said which NickE thinks was an insult leveled at the OP.
I see:
1 - Clarification of what Rockbox is, what it isn't, and an expression of where I believe the OPs misunderstanding stems from.
2 - More info on another aspect of the OP's multi-pronged question, and a reminder that the database needs tags to work.
3 - A dismissal of random harmful blogs, direction to the solution, and invitation to carry the conversation on in more appropriate places.  As well as more info on the OP's multi-pronged question.
4 - A request for clarification form the OP ("who knows" - did you try it?) and a dismissal (with disclaimer (snidely)) of an apparent insult.
5 - More info on yet another aspect of the OP's question (30 vs 60/80 GB differences).

All this speaking for myself, not Rockbox.
Creature of habit.

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #7 –
Quote from: dodog on
it seems that on many of the forums I peruse, everyone has a case of the grumpies.
I don't think perusal is needed to see this.

I suppose I've get the case of the grumpies when I see this word used to describe the opposite of what it was created to mean.  To think it's becomming becoming accepted this way really drives me batty!

EDIT: Well I'm glad you know this is in good humor, dodog.  What's even funnier is the joke's on me since I couldn't seem to get my proofreading correct.

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #8 –
Quote from: greynol on
Quote from: dodog on
it seems that on many of the forums I peruse, everyone has a case of the grumpies.

I don't think perusal is needed to see this.

I suppose I've get the case of the grumpies when I see this word used to describe the opposite of what it was created to mean.  To think it's becomming accepted this way really drives me batty!


Oh, goddammit, now I have to be conscious of slang and pseudo-english on posts?  I liked it better when you had that picture of that grumpy cat as your avatar (and when Axon had "Henry The Horse Dancing the Waltz" as his), I could read the tone from that (those) thing(s).

I've been on a sensitive kick lately and feeling like people are getting attacked on forums far too often.  But, as I posted before, after reading the forum.....

 

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #9 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
RockBox already decreases the playback time of a 5.5G iPod and using FLAC files will drastically reduce it further.  I would be surprised if you get anywhere near 10-12 hours of playback time on a single charge.

Rockbox on the 5.5G is barely worse than stock when playing non MP3 / non MPC, and likely (numbers are still out, things move fast) better than stock when playing MP3 and MPC.  FLAC isn't nearly as bad as you make it out, either.  Yes it hits the HDD more, but the 80GB has a rather large RAM buffer, and FLAC takes next-to-no CPU.
Rockbox has, literally, the best performing fixed-point decoders in the open source world, and (based on runtime comparisons against original firmwares on hardware better documented than the iPod) likely better performing decoders than most the closed source world.  (That or iRiver / Toshiba / Sansa / iAudio have astoundingly good decoders and dreadful code performance every where else.)
The iPod problem always was one of undocumented hardware, but this is being overcome rapidly through reverse engineering.

In summary:  your information is a bit out of date.  MP3 = equal to or better than Apple.  Others = slightly (10% worse).  FLAC = Not as bad as would be expected.  Likely better than ALAC on Apple OS.  (though I have not seen that head-to-head test run, Rockbox's FLAC decoder sips the CPU so gently it isn't funny)

It changes fast.  just 15 months ago you needed every trick in the book to get >50% of Apple runtime.





(and if you're willing to turn off the LCD itself (to be specific, the LCD and the BCM), not just the backlight like Apple does, Rockbox can get ~33% (19.5 hour life on a 30GB!) more runtime than Apple (yea, kinda cheating, I know (then again most other DAP screens are unreadable w/o the backlight, unlike the iPods)))
Creature of habit.

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Soap on
In summary:  your information is a bit out of date.  MP3 = equal to or better than Apple.  Others = slightly (10% worse).  FLAC = Not as bad as would be expected.  Likely better than ALAC on Apple OS.  (though I have not seen that head-to-head test run, Rockbox's FLAC decoder sips the CPU so gently it isn't funny)

It changes fast.  just 15 months ago you needed every trick in the book to get >50% of Apple runtime.


Thanks for updating me on this information.  The last time I used RockBox on my 5G 60GB iPod, I had the results that I stated above.  This was about a year ago.  I sold my 5G iPod and now have a 120GB iPod classic so I can't test newer RockBox firmware releases.

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #11 –
Quote
However, despite hours of reading, experimentation, and looking on youtube


That's the original posters problem right there  . Don't people read anymore? it's called the Documentation for a "reason". Now that I think about it maybe if we had a team people on Hydrogenaudio who were dedicated to ABX testing and posted videos on YouTube of how to do it might become pretty popular all things aside maybe I can see some benefit from doing this 


Quote
Edit: I can also understand Soap's frustration. Someone downloaded a new firmware without reading up on what they were actually downloading. It is like reformatting and installing Linux on a PC and then complain that Linux can't run "common" programs. That is information that should have been obtained with prior research (which takes about 5 minutes to conduct). Additionally, njbiology has been with hydrogenaudio for almost two years now. Expectations are higher for people who have been here for a longer time. Had njbiology just registered and this was there first post, I imagine that Soap would have cut them some slack.


Even worse are the people that switch to Linux and attempt to use WINE for all of their application needs. The question is then posed to them... why did you switch to Linux again?  . Watch the original poster will never end up responding to this thread again. Only IF we are lucky 


Quote
it seems that on many of the forums I peruse, everyone has a case of the grumpies.


  I personally only criticize people that post here that are insistent on claiming that they are right about something when they haven't bothered to do a search or read the wiki first and posters who make naive comments. I have had people comment me on the fact that I am being so critical and I have had people compliment me for helping them. I suppose it could go either way. 
budding I.T professional

Please help: How to import FLAC files into iPod/Rockbox. (Spent 8 hour

Reply #12 –
Quote from: HotshotGG on
I personally only criticize people that post here that are insistent on claiming that they are right about something when they haven't bothered to do a search or read the wiki first and posters who make naive comments. I have had people comment me on the fact that I am being so critical and I have had people compliment me for helping them. I suppose it could go either way. 


I've noticed that forums in general seem to have done that to people. A forum for the city where I live will have people asking questions which would get a quicker and more accurate answer using google but they still post on the forum?