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Topic: Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms (Read 20447 times) previous topic - next topic
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Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Does anyone know which is the best version of Brothers in Arms released? This album has been on my "to-buy CDs" list for a long time and I have only seen the 1996 remaster, SACD, Dualdisc and XRCD versions available in my local store.

I don't own an SACD player and I've read the 20th anniversary remasters are rubbish. The 1996 remaster isn't as good as the original either I've heard. So I have a choice of getting the original via ebay or some 2nd hand store or getting the XRCD version.

There's some samples on the XRCD page
http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JVCXRH3572
But it seems that it is affected by the loudness war as well. Track 3 and 8 have Replaygain values of around -7dB which I don't think any CDs mastered in the 80s would have.

So which should I get? The original or XRCD?

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #1 –
The rip of my brothers in arms disc comes out @ +3.2dB album gain. I assume its the original release, I don't remember when I bought it.

I don't know anything about the xrcd release, but I'd suggest looking for an original disc at a used record store or perhaps library.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Boiled Beans on
So which should I get? The original or XRCD?


The original of course. It was one of the first fully digitally processed recordings and some kind of a demo of the possibilities of CD. If I remember well, this one would even clip when mp3gained to the replay gain reference level.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #3 –
Quote from: chromium on
If I remember well, this one would even clip when mp3gained to the replay gain reference level.
You are correct about that. 

Anyway, I haven't listened to all the various versions, but I can say the original sounds outstanding.  One of the best sounding CDs ever, I think.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #4 –
is there any way to differentiate the original from the others besides obvious text on the cover?  a SKU maybe?  i know of several record/cd stores that are still in business and maybe i'd get lucky if i did some looking.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Teknojnky on
The rip of my brothers in arms disc comes out @ +3.2dB album gain.

Mine has an album gain of +4.99dB.

This is a UK original release and has 824 499-2 on the spine.
daefeatures.co.uk

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #6 –
Quote from: n3tfury on
is there any way to differentiate the original from the others besides obvious text on the cover?  a SKU maybe?

It was released under Warner Bros. and my copy has "25264-2" on the spine.

Edit:  To be clear, this is the original US release.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #7 –
I'd buy the original - 1985 (again). Mine has a replay gain of +5.01 dB; where my XRCD has a replaygain of -6.30 dB 

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #9 –
824 499-2 11 on the disc. Vertigo, made by Polygram, W.Germany.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #10 –
Thanks for all your replies, I'll look for the 1985 original. 

BTW, since we're talking about the loudness war, I have a few live concert DVDs I plan to buy. And they were released/re-issued recently. Would the loudness war affect DVDs as well? Lots of over-compressed parts

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Boiled Beans on
Thanks for all your replies, I'll look for the 1985 original. 

BTW, since we're talking about the loudness war, I have a few live concert DVDs I plan to buy. And they were released/re-issued recently. Would the loudness war affect DVDs as well? Lots of over-compressed parts


Generally the 2.0 audio was well are affected by this (not at all). I have Nazareth Live In Brazil the RG from the 2.0 audio is -9,36 dB (it sound like Vapor Trails from Rush (CD))... in other hand in Steve Vai Visual Sound Theories the  RG gain is near of 0 dB...
About the 5.1 and DTS i don't know at all, I never "see" any over-compressed track\album in the "5.1\DTS version".
Sorry for my bad english.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #13 –
For multichannel audio, especially if "Dolby Digital" or "DTS" trademarks are involved, there are well-defined standards for mastering levels which leave plenty of headroom - and these are used for all cinema soundtracks.

I don't know if the same standards formally apply to multichannel *music*, but I would hazard a guess that advertising using those *trademarks* requires that the standards have been followed.

I *have* come across at least one AC3/DTS encoded recording, which had the correct level but sounded very compressed.  Level is not a guarantee of quality.  But it does give the engineer room to back off the processing.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #14 –
I own the 1996 remastered version of "Brothers in Arms".
It has an album gain of -4.11 dB.
To my ears the CD doesn't sound overly compressed in dynamics.
It is one of the best sounding CDs I own.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #15 –
Quote from: evereux on
Quote from: Teknojnky on

The rip of my brothers in arms disc comes out @ +3.2dB album gain.

Mine has an album gain of +4.99dB.

This is a UK original release and has 824 499-2 on the spine.

824 499-2 02 on the disc, here. And, yes it was the first 'mastered for CD' recording IIRC.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #16 –
It should be noted that the original Vertigo has pre-emphasis.  If your replaygain value is about +3.16 the album has not been de-emphasized (using sox it should drop to +4.13, at least for me.)
Teemu

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #17 –
I think I have the 1996 remaster(RG: -4.14db), and I've always been floored by the audio quality(not to mention the music  ). Looks like I'll have to seek out the 1985 release. I'm having trouble finding any information or reviews on the remasters though. Anyone have any links?

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #18 –
Quote from: tot on
It should be noted that the original Vertigo has pre-emphasis.  If your replaygain value is about +3.16 the album has not been de-emphasized (using sox it should drop to +4.13, at least for me.)

According to EAC, mine isn't pre-emphasized.?

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #19 –
Quote from: collector on
According to EAC, mine isn't pre-emphasized.?

I have seen that too, which is a bit puzzling.  My ears say it is (very bright out of the CD, and very nice after deemphasis), and  this article discusses what they had to for 20th anniversary edition to get rid of pre-emphasis which was already present on the original tracks.
Teemu

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #20 –
Quote from: mikenet on
I think I have the 1996 remaster(RG: -4.14db), and I've always been floored by the audio quality(not to mention the music  ). Looks like I'll have to seek out the 1985 release. I'm having trouble finding any information or reviews on the remasters though. Anyone have any links?
No, but IIRC it's not just a "remaster" - it's actually remixed.

On the UK versions I compared, the CD artwork and text isn't as crisp as the original either.

Cheers,
David.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #21 –
The High Fidelity Review claims that there is no way to do de-emphasis in the digital domain. Is that true, or only analogue purists would say so (then again no compressor is good enough for them)?

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #22 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
No, but IIRC it's not just a "remaster" - it's actually remixed.

On the UK versions I compared, the CD artwork and text isn't as crisp as the original either.

Cheers,
David.
The 20th anniversary release of Brothers In Arms has Neil Dorfsman's original mix, remastered by Bob Ludwig.  The only "remix" was done for the multi-channel release.  But even on that release, the 2 channel version was still Neil Dorfsman's original.

What remix are you speaking of?  Was there one in 1996?

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #23 –
Quote from: j7n on
The High Fidelity Review claims that there is no way to do de-emphasis in the digital domain. Is that true, or only analogue purists would say so (then again no compressor is good enough for them)?

That sounds like complete hogwash to me. With enough terms, digital processing can match an analog response to any precision you want.

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms

Reply #24 –
Quote from: pdq on
That sounds like complete hogwash to me. With enough terms, digital processing can match an analog response to any precision you want.


Exactly. I think the "problem" was that some people were building filters graphically(drawing lines with FFT filters, or using a graphic equalizer) that approximated the frequency response somewhat inaccurately, while completely ignoring the phase response. The analog filter is pretty simple, and digitally modeling it shouldn't be that difficult. Whether or not these two approaches sound different is a whole other question, but it would be nice to have a filter with the intended response, especially since it shouldn't be much trouble to generate.