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Poll

Do you use Replay Gain?

Yes
[ 129 ] (93.5%)
No
[ 9 ] (6.5%)
Don't know?
[ 0 ] (0%)

Total Members Voted: 144

Topic: Replay Gain Site (Read 7550 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Replay Gain Site

I hope this is as good as any Forum to put this in, and please don't take the topic title wrong.  When I first went there I thought that it was a dead topic as everything it speaks about seems like it was a good idea that never went over, as there is no real updates on the site.  For quite awhile I thought it ended up being not supported but then as I geared up I found most everything I own supports it and supports it well.  So I guess I'm asking for some backround as to why it seems like it was abandoned.  Shouldn't there be some updates as to the success of it and how it's become the major volume leveling technique outside of the Itunes world?  I've worked hard getting rid of Itunes normalization and changing to Replay gain on over 8k of songs and I love the way it works.  Any way just a question I've had for while, thanks for any history on it.

PS:  Made a little poll just for fun and info.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #1
It looks abandoned because it is abandoned!

It should stay there as a reference, but with a prominent link to the (up to date) wiki on the very front page of the web site.

I'm happy to write the html if someone at HA can put it up there. I don't have write access to the website myself. Who does?

Cheers,
David.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #2
I say use the wiki.

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Replay_Gain

We have some basics up there

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...eplay_Gain/Spec
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...ain/Calculation
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...eplay_Gain/Misc

And we can add sub pages. [[Replay Gain/Spec]], [[Replay Gain/Calculation]], [[Replay Gain/Misc]] and so on are so called "red links" at the moment, but we can create them if needed.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #3
I say use the wiki.


Yes the Wiki would be fine but a lot of times, people like myself, will type replay gain into google and end up straight there and never know the difference.  At least in the news part if someone with some knowledge could maybe update what has happened over the years since the last update.  It might prove very interesting.  I'd like to know a bit on how it became accepted, what took place and why. But maybe thats just me and thats why I asked the question.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #4
http://replaygain.hydrogenaudio.org/ is now showing up as #2 in Google results for Replay Gain. From there it looks dead. I've just discovered replay gain via MediaMonkey. It is not dead; it is a potential game changer in the volume wars - lets people clearly hear the superiority of the unsquashed recordings.

Those of you who indicated you don't care about the state of the web site should seriously reconsider. Having more people listening to music on a leveled playing field should reduce pressure on artists and labels to squash the life out of music.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #5
What are you talking about?

Replay gain is about volume consistency across tracks. It has nothing to do with mastering squashed recordings and the volume wars.

terry

Replay Gain Site

Reply #6
Holy thread resurrection, Batman!
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

Replay Gain Site

Reply #7
What are you talking about?

Replay gain is about volume consistency across tracks. It has nothing to do with mastering squashed recordings and the volume wars.

terry

I think he meant that since all tracks will be normalized, better-mastered tracks would stand out as being higher quality.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #8
I agree that ReplayGain can be used as a weapon to put an end to the loudness wars, and it's website would be a good place to put up good examples on the use of ReplayGain by visual images and good explanations for people that don't know much about it.
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Replay Gain Site

Reply #9
replaygain is not an indicator of quality. when a program or device uses replaygain, it's just an extra convenience for the listener so they don't have to manually turn the volume knob.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #10
If you're at a party and the person who shouts the loudest leaves with the sexiest girl/boy, then loud is good, but then someone comes along with replay gain for the vocal chords so no one is any louder than anyone else regardless of how loud they shout. Would you bother shouting?

Ergo, what's the point in loudness if everyone's using replay gain. That's why it's anti-loudness - it defeats the point. If anything it does more than that because after replay-gain many loud tracks don't stand up to punchy dynamic pre-1995 material.

I think that's Notat's and odyssey's point, and if so I agree with them.

C.
PC = TAK + LossyWAV  ::  Portable = Opus (130)

Replay Gain Site

Reply #11
I think that's Notat's and odyssey's point, and if so I agree with them.

Exactly. Another reason I'd like to see the replaygain site updated with some better facts and better explanations to users that normally wouldn't care is because many users don't think they care. All they know is that they are annoyed when they play an 80s track, they need to turn up the volume to hear it at all.
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Replay Gain Site

Reply #12
If you're at a party and the person who shouts the loudest leaves with the sexiest girl/boy, then loud is good, but then someone comes along with replay gain for the vocal chords so no one is any louder than anyone else regardless of how loud they shout. Would you bother shouting?

Ergo, what's the point in loudness if everyone's using replay gain.  That's why it's anti-loudness - it defeats the point. If anything it  does more than that because after replay-gain many loud tracks don't  stand up to punchy dynamic pre-1995 material.

that analogy doesn't work. replaygain is not a limiter. it simply calculates the average volume. dynamics actually work against replaygain. if i were at the party with replaygain enabled, i could speak quietly for an hour and then shout, and i would be louder than everyone else, thus i would get the girl, thus the point of being loud. it's not being loud that's the problem, it's the squashed dynamics and clipped peaks that's ruining music. replaygain has absolutely no effect on either of those. like i said, replaygain is just a convenience feature.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #13
I think you're confused. Being quiet, then loud, is being dynamic. Being equally loud all the time, isn't - and in the case of recordings (rather than people at parties!) is probably the result of dynamic range compression.

Without ReplayGain, squashed recordings sound louder than dynamic ones*.

With ReplayGain, typically dynamic recordings sound better (and often slightly louder) than squashed ones.

So in the hypothetical world where everyone listened with ReplayGain applied, there would be no advantage in loudness terms to squashing recordings. For some music, "squashed" might still be the sound that was wanted - but probably only selectively - not on every track of every CD!

Cheers,
David.

* - assuming both peak at 0dB FS. Of course you can make a squashed recording which only peaks at -20dB FS if you want - making it both horrible and quiet!

Replay Gain Site

Reply #14
I think you're confused. Being quiet, then loud, is being dynamic.

i illustrated dynamics in my post.

Quote
Being equally loud all the time, isn't - and in the case of recordings (rather than people at parties!) is probably the result of dynamic range compression.

that depends on the style of music. death metal is going to be consistently loud with or without dynamic compression.

Quote
Without ReplayGain, squashed recordings sound louder than dynamic ones.

unless the listener turns down the volume knob.

Quote
With ReplayGain, typically dynamic recordings sound better (and often slightly louder) than squashed ones.

this is an opinion. i also prefer dynamics to compression. it doesn't matter if replaygain is applied or not because it has no effect on the dynamics.

Quote
So in the hypothetical world where everyone listened with ReplayGain applied, there would be no advantage in loudness terms to squashing recordings. For some music, "squashed" might still be the sound that was wanted - but probably only selectively - not on every track of every CD!

there is no advantage to squashing music, period. replaygain only effects if the listener has to turn the volume knob.



replaygain doesn't do anything that people haven't already been doing manually. if turning down the volume knob is all it took to combat the loudness war, the war would have ended a long time ago. i support the idea of educating the public about bad mastering, but replaygain is just a convenience feature.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #15
So many quotes, yet I fail to see your exact point...

You *do* realise that you are arguing the *developer* of ReplayGain, right???
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Replay Gain Site

Reply #16
replaygain doesn't do anything that people haven't already been doing manually.
This is factually wrong; ReplayGain's loudness equalization is far more precise than what can be adjusted through a volume knob. Depending on how well you trust its loudness estimation, it could also be more accurate too.

A lot of people here are of the opinion that hypercompression has only come about due to a lack of free, high-quality loudness equalization schemes such as ReplayGain, and that, hypothetically, if every CD player and iPod and music player had RG or BS.1770 implemented, the advantages gained by hypercompression would disappear, and the market/production pressures involved would disappear. That is, convenience begets sound quality. And my experience supports this view - I listen to a lot more highly dynamic music now compared to before I used ReplayGain (although to be true my tastes have also changed during that time).

So your point about ReplayGain only being about convenience is only true in the shallowest of terms.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #17
that analogy doesn't work.

Careless of me, but I did think HA members would be able to fill in the gaps. So just for you, I meant shouting at a high volume with little to no dynamic variation over a prolonged period gets the girl/boy.

C.
PC = TAK + LossyWAV  ::  Portable = Opus (130)

Replay Gain Site

Reply #18
It looks like everyone but randal1013 understood my point. I want to add that Replay Gain, with its measurement of overall album level, takes preservation of dynamics a step further than all other competing solutions. This is absolutely the right way to manage playback levels and it deserves advocacy.

The poll still shows 58% don't care about the website. What's up with that?

Replay Gain Site

Reply #19
See post 2.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #20
replaygain doesn't do anything that people haven't already been doing manually. if turning down the volume knob is all it took to combat the loudness war, the war would have ended a long time ago. i support the idea of educating the public about bad mastering, but replaygain is just a convenience feature.

I don't think many people adjust the volume between each track, whether it be the radio or their own music collection on random / shuffle play.

Most people probably do the same thing I do - start their listening session at what seems a suitable volume & only touch the control again to turn it down a bit if absolutely necessary, rarely turning it up again after a loud track is over.

This means during their listening session the over compressed stuff stands out & sounds "better", whereas if everything were replaygained, besides not needing to touch the volume control, the over compressed stuff would almost always sound the worst.

Replay Gain Site

Reply #21
It looks abandoned because it is abandoned!

It should stay there as a reference, but with a prominent link to the (up to date) wiki on the very front page of the web site.

I'm happy to write the html if someone at HA can put it up there. I don't have write access to the website myself. Who does?

Cheers,
David.

A very late reply... but if you want to make changes that surely can be arranged.

 
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