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Topic: LAN-attached storage for your files (Read 4173 times) previous topic - next topic
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LAN-attached storage for your files

Many in this community will soon run out of storage space for the files they acquire or create. The amount of data can add up quickly when each run of MPC for instance generates from 50 to 100 MB of files.


[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%']Solution:[/span]

Although RAID-5 SCSI solutions are great for those with LARGE budgets .. a more cost effective system is desired by experimenters and students. This topic will cover the configuration of a RAID-1 Fault-Tolerant IDE storage system.


RAID-1

This configuration is known as a `mirror' because it consists of two identical drives .. each which contain the same files. It can be considered an instantaneous backup of your data.


IDE systems

Although SCSI is preferred where cost-is-no-object .. most users in the experimental and student group would need a lower priced solution.

* 40 GB Fault Tolerant array  --  2x 40 GB IDE

* 80 GB Fault Tolerant array  --  2x 80 GB IDE

* 120 GB Fault Tolerant array  -  2x 40 GB and 2x 80 GB IDE

* 160 GB Fault Tolerant array  -  4x 80 GB IDE


In addition to your existing integrated IDE ports.. which can attach four IDE devices such as CD-ROM and CD-RW drives .. and where the OS is located .. an IDE RAID system is both relatively safe against hardware failures and inexpensive.



[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%']IDE - RAID adapter[/span]

As a suppliment to the IDE drive where your OS is located.. a PCI - IDE adapter which will connect redundant HIGH capacity drives is as follows:


FastTrak100 TX2

http://www.promise.com/product/product_lis....asp?familyId=2


This hardware is certified compatible by Microsoft Labs for Windows 2000.  With two ATA-100 IDE ports capable of PRIMARY and SECONDARY devices .. it can connect FOUR high-capacity IED drives. Warning .. install in chassis where ALL physical drives are within 18-inch cable reach of the adapter. DO NOT EXCEED 18-INCH CABLE LENGTH..!!



[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%']Protection[/span]

It would be unwise to store ALL of your precious files on a single physical drive.. especially the ones you spent HOURS, DAYS, or WEEKS creating. On the other hand .. if one of the mirror drives fails .. then it's twin still has ALL your data. It can either be removed from the array or another identical drive (if still available) can be installed and the array can be `re-synchronized'.


LAN attached

Not everyone has a box large enough to install so much hardware .. so a machine might be configured and attached to the LAN. Network files can easily and efficiently be accessed in the Windows 2000 and above environment.



[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Note:  sender is recommending these products.. but has no business interest in their sales..[/span]

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #1 –
why not ide raid5? promise makes a decent 6 channel for not an insane amount of money.

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #2 –
I've always seen raid0 used for gaming. Why not for music?
r3mix zealot.

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #3 –
Quote
why not ide raid5? promise makes a decent 6 channel for not an insane amount of money.


Have not tested a RAID-5 IDE system .. this striping with parity is normally for SCSI arrays. It is more efficient space-wise .. but 18-inch cable length can be a problem.

If you want a RAID-5 system .. better buy an additional drive just to `have on the shelf' should you need to replace a failed unit. Drives hit the `end of life' so quickly .. that you may not be able to get a replacement if one is needed.


For a mirror, if one unit fails and you decide to `chuck it' .. you still have all you files on a usuable hard-disc.  Besides, you could always disconnect one drive and give it to your sweet-heart (to evaluate of course)!!  { smile }


Enjoy..!!

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #4 –
Quote
I've always seen raid0 used for gaming. Why not for music?


RAID-0 is striping and actually INCREASES the chance of losing data .. although it increases capacity.  You would not want to connect two 40GB drives in a stripe (80 GB total) then if only ONE fails .. all the files are GONE.  80 GB is a LOT of data to lose..!!

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #5 –
I personally don't mind. I back the most important files to cd-r anyway. Address, emails and mp3's. As well as hard to find installation files.
r3mix zealot.

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #6 –
This is a pretty general thread, which discusses storage interface options more than actual "configuration", but I do have a few responses...

Quote
RAID

RAID adds online fault-tolerance and redundancy--but within the same on-site environment, it is not exactly backup.  For example, if a drive within the array fails, the array can easily be reconstructed with little chance of data-loss (depending on the number of HDD failures, type and size RAID).  However, if there was a fire or some other disaster, on-site RAID offers virtually no advantages.  This is why removable storage is utilized as a backup solution, where the backup can be stored off-site.  Obviously most consumers cannot afford a tape solution, but there are alternatives.  If CD-R(W) or DVD-/+R(W) is insufficient, removable HDDs in JBOD are an excellent way to possess the advantages of tape cartridges without a serious investment.  However, removable storage is not as convenient as RAID, so it becomes a question of assumed risk.

Even IDE/ATA RAID does requires homework before purchasing the hardware.  There is a large disparity in performance between drives of different manufactures and models operating in various RAID configurations. For example, Seagate's cudas tend achieve nominal performance gains, while IBM's GPX series tends to perform quite well in a variety of RAID configurations (however, if you are purchasing RAID for fault-tolerance, you shouldn't consider IBM GXP series).  I must concede that performance is likely the least of concerns for archival storage.

For best results, all drives within the array should be the same model.

Quote
Warning .. install in chassis where ALL physical drives are within 18-inch cable reach of the adapter. DO NOT EXCEED 18-INCH CABLE LENGTH..!!

IDE/ATA spec is indeed 18" and certainly should be observed with generic ribbon cables OR so-called "rounded" cables.  However, there is flexibility with so-called "premium" IDE/ATA cables, which in many cases can be saftely extended to 24" with to drives on a channel, and as much as 36" with a single drive on channel.  Granit Digital is an example of "premium" cables, although not cheap:  http://www.scsipro.com

Quote
LAN Attached

NAS is wonderful, but tends to be expensive and therefore impractical for most endusers. It also suffers from many of the same disadvantages of RAID located at the workstation.

Quote
fasttrak100 tx2

Not the most friendly of controllers.


Quote
I've always seen raid0 used for gaming. Why not for music?

RAID 0 is not a true RAID.  It provides no provisions for fault-tolerance.  As Gregory Abbey stated it actually increases the probability for data-loss.  IMHO, IDE/ATA RAID 0 is a foolish pursuit.  As far as performance gains, it increases STR and access time(!) and therefore the advantages of this configuration are becoming less relevant as STR steadily increases with each generation of HDD and access times remain largely unchanged.


ATA/IDE RAID is certainly on of the best (and few) options available for online, fault-tolerant, convenient, and ecomonical storage, but the buyer would be very wise to conduct some research.  Caveat emptor.

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #7 –
I think it needs to be added that a decent power supply is a must for people storing there files in a single chasis, a cheap PSU has little surge protection if it blows and can take out all the hard drives in one go.

Just my 2 pennies worth

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #8 –
Quote
decent power supply

Great point!  An inadequate PSU or poor power is often thought to be a frequent cause of premature HDD failure.  The symptoms of a defective/inadequate PSU or poor power can be diffcult to identify, but stability (frequent crashing) can be indicative.

A UPS which is at least "line-interactive" (in the current meaning, not necessarily online), a true sine wave output, and buck and boost features is something everyone should consider.

When I moved to a new home, I noticed my computer began crashing frequently (where it rarely had before).  The PSU was a fairly decent antec and was operating well within specification.  I was using a APC premium surge protector with filtering at the time.  I decided it was time to invest in a good UPS before there was any hardware damage.  Immediately after connecting the UPS, the computer was again rock-stable, but I did notice that the buck/boost occassionally kicked in indicating that the power from the wall receptacle was indeed poor.  I was actually fortunate that my computer did crash--if the signs had been any more subtle, I may not have realized the need for a UPS.

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #9 –
I'm using a 3Ware ATA RAID card.  A 6400 series card that I got for about $100. I have 2 mirror sets on it right now. A 40GB and a 60GB mirror.

It rocks. There is built in support in Redhat. No floppies needed.

I highly recommend them.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #10 –
Quote
Quote
Warning .. install in chassis where ALL physical drives are within 18-inch cable reach of the adapter. DO NOT EXCEED 18-INCH CABLE LENGTH..!!


IDE/ATA spec is indeed 18" and certainly should be observed with generic ribbon cables OR so-called "rounded" cables.  However, there is flexibility with so-called "premium" IDE/ATA cables, which in many cases can be saftely extended to 24" with to drives on a channel, and as much as 36" with a single drive on channel.  Granit Digital is an example of "premium" cables, although not cheap:  http://www.scsipro.com



Although many vendors will supply ATA cables of 24", 30", and even 36".. I have looked into this and had email exchanges with many of them.. including Promise Tech Support .. and the spec is still 18". Any longer and you'll be `out of spec'. No vendor could assure me that his LONG cables could meet the reliability targets. In all due respect to you fine reply .. I must re-iterate the statement: Do Not Exceed 18-cable length for ATA/100 or ATA/133 sub-systems.


Quote
When I moved to a new home, I noticed my computer began crashing frequently (where it rarely had before).  The PSU was a fairly decent antec and was operating well within specification.  I was using a APC premium surge protector with filtering at the time.  I decided it was time to invest in a good UPS before there was any hardware damage.  Immediately after connecting the UPS, the computer was again rock-stable, but I did notice that the buck/boost occassionally kicked in indicating that the power from the wall receptacle was indeed poor.  I was actually fortunate that my computer did crash--if the signs had been any more subtle, I may not have realized the need for a UPS.


This is also a good idea and highly recommended .. a suitable UPS which includes line conditioning features between your machine and the power company.

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #11 –
Quote
Although many vendors will supply ATA cables of 24", 30", and even 36".. I have looked into this and had email exchanges with many of them.. including Promise Tech Support .. and the spec is still 18". Any longer and you'll be `out of spec'.

As I mentioned above, the specification is 18", BUT this is for standard generic ribbon cable, which assumes impedance, capacitance, inductance, and dielectrics as typical with that specific type of wire.  The point is, if you change the characteristics of the wire, it will behave differently.  In the case of properly engineered ATA/IDE cables, it will allow the lengths to exceed the specification of generic ribbon, with decreased effects of crosstalk and attenuation that may otherwise impact ordinary generic ribbon cable.  Dialectrics are modified by exchanging vinyl with materials like Teflon.

Promise tech support has been known to not always offer the most accurate of information--especially in regards to their performance comparisons (reference: SCSI comparison using a pre-release Quantum that had crippled firmware). Nevertheless, since Promise is in the business of controllers, they are not in the position to make such recommendations, whether HDDs, CPUs, motherboards, or just cables. I am certain that if Promise begins manufacturing premium cables, they will have a recommendation on cables

Quote
No vendor could assure me that his LONG cables could meet the reliability targets

Here is your assurance:
Quote
"This is the best cable you can buy for Ultra 66 IDE applications. Easy to remove pull-tabs on connectors. Ultra Fast TPO or Teflon Cable gives us the ability to go longer than the specification calls out for. We not only go further, but we also guarantee data integrity at high speeds. It’s simply the best!"

"Our Gold IDE Ultra 100 Cables are your guarantee to better transfers and sustained high speed operation."

--Granite Digital


It's worth noting that Granite Digital is not the only manufacturer of premium cables and I mention them only because I am familiar with people's experiences with these cables.  It also should be noted that if you stay within specification, generic cables are sufficient.

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #12 –
Quote
Quote
Although many vendors will supply ATA cables of 24", 30", and even 36".. I have looked into this and had email exchanges with many of them.. including Promise Tech Support .. and the spec is still 18". Any longer and you'll be `out of spec'.


As I mentioned above, the specification is 18", BUT this is for standard generic ribbon cable, which assumes impedance, capacitance, inductance, and dielectrics as typical with that specific type of wire. 


Quote
No vendor could assure me that his LONG cables could meet the reliability targets


Here is your assurance:
Quote
"This is the best cable you can buy for Ultra 66 IDE applications. Easy to remove pull-tabs on connectors. Ultra Fast TPO or Teflon Cable gives us the ability to go longer than the specification calls out for. We not only go further, but we also guarantee data integrity at high speeds. It’s simply the best!"

"Our Gold IDE Ultra 100 Cables are your guarantee to better transfers and sustained high speed operation."

--Granite Digital




Thanks for adding to this thread.. I went to the website of the content that you quoted and agree with the first statement that they make (about ATA/66) .. after that it's mostly marketing hype (and that's putting it mildly). It is understood .. about capacitance, dielectric material, and attenuation but the issue's primary basis is `timing' and `length' .. and buying expensive `round' cables is unnecessary.

The spec can be relaxed somewhat for ATA/66 timing but I would not use 36" cable for any application beyond older IDE drives in the 4 GB catagory. I think it's a mistake to advise the group to use longer cables for ATA/100 subsystem. Here is my table for maximum cable length:

  * ATA/66  --  24 inch MAX cable length

  * ATA/100  --  18 inch MAX cable length

  * ATA/133  --  18 inch MAX cable length


As with other posts .. if it will make you happy buying fancy and really expensive IDE cables to violate the specification.. then go ahead with it.. but I must reiterate the previous statement: 

ATA/100 and ATA/133 subsystems.. do not exceed 18 inch cable length spec.

Cheers..!!
 

LAN-attached storage for your files

Reply #13 –
Quote
the issue's primary basis is `timing'

This isn't correct.  Timing isn't an issue for the distances discussed in this thread and it is more relevant to devices running in different modes on the part of the controller.  If we were discussing PCB traces, then it can be an issue, but not regarding the ATA/IDE interface in the context of this thread.  The primary worry is attenuation and crosstalk, which increase with length.  If the cable is insufficient, CRC errors will increase--but CRC errors generally cause a decrease in speed (not corruption!).  In fact studies have examined signal integrity of distances for the IDE/ATA interface.  The results did not reveal a signifcant relationship with a modest increase in length and CRCs.  Of course using different cables yields different results--this why there are so many different types of cables and a tremendous amount of research in engineering cables (for instance, my uncle has a few dozen patents for cable designs in commercial production).

Quote
Here is my table for maximum cable length:

What is the source of this table, i.e., was it created from empirical data, experience, or vicariously?

Quote
ATA/100 and ATA/133 subsystems.. do not exceed 18 inch cable length spec.

Respectfully, if you use premium cables that are designed for this purpose you can exceed specification without fear of data-loss.  The qualifier "premium" assumes that the cable is not generic ribbon.  Further, few people will find generic ribbon cables that exceed 18" (unless purchased separately in whole or parts)

Cable length should be the least of a person's worries in terms of reliability and data integrity.  Important to preventing involuntary data-loss is HDD selection.  The apparent reliability of some manufacture's ATA/IDE models can be dismal!  Among the ATA/IDE market, withstanding a OS "crash", HDD defect/failures is unarguably the leading cause of data-loss.

If you want a second opinion, you should seek the advice of StorageReview Forums.

On the bright side, S-ATA allows for a 1m cable length.