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Topic: What do you think to my remastering efforts? (Read 13114 times) previous topic - next topic
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What do you think to my remastering efforts?

These clips are longer than 30 seconds, but only because each clip has a before and after examples of the same part of the song, they are all fare use, I used Declipper 2.5 and Dominion Signal modifier.

Take a Bow

Someone only we know A bit compressed

One way ticket to Paradise

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #1 –
I really like what you did to the Muse song, it sounds great! Suddenly the drums come to life.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #2 –
I only listened to 'Someone Only We Know', and you did a great job on it. I didn't know it was possible to help compressed songs this much

Would you mind telling me the artist of the song?

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: enVias on
I only listened to 'Someone Only We Know', and you did a great job on it. I didn't know it was possible to help compressed songs this much

Would you mind telling me the artist of the song?


Keane

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #5 –
iZotope RX Advanced does a similar job (perhaps with less & shorter transient alterations), but it also costs $1200 and you accomplished similar for free.  Good job.

here's RX's de-clipping if you're interested, with the threshold set to 0.1db under the actual clipping
http://www.mediafire.com/?1fwidyvlddh

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #6 –
how can you remaster a song without having access to the unmastered version?
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #7 –
Wow, that's great. Would you mind explaining how you are achieving this?

And a couple of issues:
  • It's nice if you could post the before and after as separate files, as it makes it easier for people to level match them with an automated processes. Did you happen to replay gain or do any level matching of these files before combining them? (didn't have a chance to check this out myself)
  • I can hear some type of pumping distortion to varying degrees throughout the processed samples. The damage may have been done to the source, and your process may only be revealing it. The worst for me is the piano in the very middle of "Someone only we know." I think I may be hearing it in the unprocessed version too, but it's far more subtle there.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: mikenet on
Wow, that's great. Would you mind explaining how you are achieving this?

And a couple of issues:
  • It's nice if you could post the before and after as separate files, as it makes it easier for people to level match them with an automated processes. Did you happen to replay gain or do any level matching of these files before combining them? (didn't have a chance to check this out myself)
  • I can hear some type of pumping distortion to varying degrees throughout the processed samples. The damage may have been done to the source, and your process may only be revealing it. The worst for me is the piano in the very middle of "Someone only we know." I think I may be hearing it in the unprocessed version too, but it's far more subtle there.



The Keane example sucks, it was an early attempt from a few months ago, I did it to an MP3 rather than a WAV version of the song, this reveals compression artifacts that would be barly audable had I not found away to amplify the drums, my more recent attempts sound better. All I did to these files was declip them then decrease the volume apply a bass boost then use Dominion signal modelling device to increase the dynamic range. I use a batch converter to inprove whole albums.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: AJ_UK on
The Keane example sucks, it was an early attempt from a few months ago, I did it to an MP3 rather than a WAV version of the song, this reveals compression artifacts that would be barly audable had I not found away to amplify the drums, my more recent attempts sound better. All I did to these files was declip them then decrease the volume apply a bass boost then use Dominion signal modelling device to increase the dynamic range. I use a batch converter to inprove whole albums.


Very nice. I played around with Dominion a little in the past, but couldn't really get the hang of it to do restoration. Could you post any example settings?

How are you doing the batch conversion? I know dBpoweramp will do batch conversions with DirectX and VST plugins, but how are you setting up the plugins? Have you found good general(one size fits all) settings, or do you tune with individual portions of the album?

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #10 –
Wouldn't it be great to have such tools as DSPs? This is where DSPs really become useful, yet there are not many of these available.

(I'd especially like a native declipper, dynamic expander and a high quality EQ that are able to read settings from a tag for foobar2000)
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: odyssey on
Wouldn't it be great to have such tools as DSPs? This is where DSPs really become useful, yet there are not many of these available.

It would be best if declipping wasn't necessary at all, of course.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: odyssey on
Quote from: bug80 on

Quote from: odyssey on

Wouldn't it be great to have such tools as DSPs? This is where DSPs really become useful, yet there are not many of these available.

It would be best if declipping wasn't necessary at all, of course.

So what do you propose?

What I meant is that mixing and mastering engineers should become aware of the issue. In that case we wouldn't need DSPs to repair the damage.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: bug80 on
Quote from: odyssey on

Quote from: bug80 on

Quote from: odyssey on

Wouldn't it be great to have such tools as DSPs? This is where DSPs really become useful, yet there are not many of these available.

It would be best if declipping wasn't necessary at all, of course.

So what do you propose?

What I meant is that mixing and mastering engineers should become aware of the issue. In that case we wouldn't need DSPs to repair the damage.

Oh, right - That fixes my 22000 tracks...
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: odyssey on
Quote from: bug80 on

Quote from: odyssey on

Quote from: bug80 on

Quote from: odyssey on

Wouldn't it be great to have such tools as DSPs? This is where DSPs really become useful, yet there are not many of these available.

It would be best if declipping wasn't necessary at all, of course.

So what do you propose?

What I meant is that mixing and mastering engineers should become aware of the issue. In that case we wouldn't need DSPs to repair the damage.

Oh, right - That fixes my 22000 tracks...

I was talking about future produced music. I hope you agree that it is a shame that declipping is even necessary, that is what I was saying. 

Of course for existing music it would be great to have DSPs / plugins.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: bug80 on
Quote from: odyssey on

Quote from: bug80 on

Quote from: odyssey on

Quote from: bug80 on

Quote from: odyssey on

Wouldn't it be great to have such tools as DSPs? This is where DSPs really become useful, yet there are not many of these available.

It would be best if declipping wasn't necessary at all, of course.

So what do you propose?

What I meant is that mixing and mastering engineers should become aware of the issue. In that case we wouldn't need DSPs to repair the damage.

Oh, right - That fixes my 22000 tracks...

I was talking about future produced music. I hope you agree that it is a shame that declipping is even necessary, that is what I was saying. 

Of course for existing music it would be great to have DSPs / plugins.

Of course I share your oppinion, but I lost faith in the producers, since most of them are aware of this, and does it purposedly. I'm really sure that it will never happen (at least not as long CD are the defacto standard, which I'm sure it will be for a long time).

A DSP would never hurt, not even well produced music. I know that declip will simply ignore samples that need no processing, and hope that a dynamic expander does the same.
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: odyssey on
Of course I share your oppinion, but I lost faith in the producers, since most of them are aware of this, and does it purposedly. I'm really sure that it will never happen (at least not as long CD are the defacto standard, which I'm sure it will be for a long time).

I agree. The example of Muse in the "Worst mastered CD" topic is awfull. But still, it is one of the most popular albums of the moment.

I'm afraid, as long as the general public likes their music to be as loud as possible, producers will continue with this kind of mastering.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: bug80 on
Quote from: odyssey on

Of course I share your oppinion, but I lost faith in the producers, since most of them are aware of this, and does it purposedly. I'm really sure that it will never happen (at least not as long CD are the defacto standard, which I'm sure it will be for a long time).

I agree. The example of Muse in the "Worst mastered CD" topic is awfull. But still, it is one of the most popular albums of the moment.

I'm afraid, as long as the general public likes their music to be as loud as possible, producers will continue with this kind of mastering.


I don't get look at Franz Ferdinanda's first album with that, they proved that you dont have to pump the levels to sell it it was an enormous success and won a ton of awards! Their second album they regressed and followed the crowd trying to make it "louder" and that didn't do so well! 

Anyway I have decided that some types of music respond to this processing much better than others, the Prodigy and the Arctic monkeys responded really well, others like Muse don't to do so well.

Arctic Monkeys Example

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: mikenet on
Quote from: AJ_UK on

The Keane example sucks, it was an early attempt from a few months ago, I did it to an MP3 rather than a WAV version of the song, this reveals compression artifacts that would be barly audable had I not found away to amplify the drums, my more recent attempts sound better. All I did to these files was declip them then decrease the volume apply a bass boost then use Dominion signal modelling device to increase the dynamic range. I use a batch converter to inprove whole albums.


Very nice. I played around with Dominion a little in the past, but couldn't really get the hang of it to do restoration. Could you post any example settings?

How are you doing the batch conversion? I know dBpoweramp will do batch conversions with DirectX and VST plugins, but how are you setting up the plugins? Have you found good general(one size fits all) settings, or do you tune with individual portions of the album?



Sorry to revive I use batch converter, for an album with quite a lot of dynamic range but where every drum hit, goes to 0DBS I do run Declipper at a low setting, followed by a very Mild bass boost and Dominion Set to attack at just 6, all of the other setting in dominion are set to 0.

For something more brick walled I use a stronger Bass boost and Dominon set to 13.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #20 –
Sorry, am I the only person in this thread who prefers the originals to the 'remasters'? The only track where I prefer the processed version over the original is the last one, "One Way Ticket To Paradise" (probably because it's far more subtle). However, when the vocal comes in right at the end of the clip, it's too sibilant.

In the Keane song, the processing leaves the drums and vocals horribly snappy - the vocal's pumping and then almost immediately gets lost in the mix due to the threshold on the compressor. In the Muse track, the drums sit really nicely in the overall mix - but in the reprocessed version, the rhythm guitar and kick/snare stand way too far out, and are too boomy in the mix.

Good efforts and I'm sure on some tracks which sound far worse before you start applying your process, you could get some very interesting results. However, like any good production, less is more.

Concentrate on getting your results to the point where you can hear a difference when you A/B but it doesn't immediately stand out and make it totally noticeable, because it ruins the enjoyment of the listening experience (for me, at least). Just because the track's levels now vary far more after being reprocessed doesn't mean it's gonna sound better... Most good albums are quite well engineered to sound good across a wide array of playback equipment. What may sound kickass to you on your home listening kit or portable headphones may well sound awful on my studio monitors here, but I don't think I'd want to have my sound pumping that much even if I was listening on canalphones on my MP3 player - I'd probably load up a compressor codec in rockbox to try and stabilise all those crazy level variations!

I'm just being honest here. I'm not a dynamic hater, I love dynamics (I'm so often turning DOWN the radio in the car, it's a joy to tune to something like Radio 3 and actually have to turn the radio UP to hear the quiet passages!!!!!!!) but sometimes a sacrifice in perceived dynamic range is better for the overall 'gelling' of the track. The mix engineer, producer and mastering house haven't done all that work for no reason, even if they've taken some of the dynamic of the recording away.

Track three shows the most promise. Keep at it.
Don't forget International Talk Like A Pirate Day! September the 19th!

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #21 –
Quote from: AJ_UK on
Sorry to revive I use batch converter, for an album with quite a lot of dynamic range but where every drum hit, goes to 0DBS I do run Declipper at a low setting, followed by a very Mild bass boost and Dominion Set to attack at just 6, all of the other setting in dominion are set to 0.

For something more brick walled I use a stronger Bass boost and Dominon set to 13.

Thanks for the great work, the results are quite impressive. However, I think I've figured out a little better "decompression" set up for dominion, please read on...

Quote from: christopher on
Sorry, am I the only person in this thread who prefers the originals to the 'remasters'? The only track where I prefer the processed version over the original is the last one, "One Way Ticket To Paradise" (probably because it's far more subtle). However, when the vocal comes in right at the end of the clip, it's too sibilant.

In the Keane song, the processing leaves the drums and vocals horribly snappy - the vocal's pumping and then almost immediately gets lost in the mix due to the threshold on the compressor. In the Muse track, the drums sit really nicely in the overall mix - but in the reprocessed version, the rhythm guitar and kick/snare stand way too far out, and are too boomy in the mix.

I share you opinion on the Keane song and played around with dominion as foobar dsp quite a bit, testing it on heavilly dnr-compressed records. I've come to the conclusion that it may be a wrong approach just to boost the attack phase. It produced exactly that "snappy" sound you've mentioned. My recommendation: set the sustain-level slider to 1/2 the amount of the attack slider (e.g. attack 10, sustain 5) in order to prevent that effect and get a much more natural sound.

Now I just need to figure out how to make a foobar plugin that automatically enebales a certain DSP chain, if the headroom of a mp3 file is under a certain amount - that'll be the ultimate replay-remastering

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #22 –
imo it wouldn't be much harder to implement the transient and sustain processing into the plugin as well, and tie them into the crest detection algorithm.  that way you wouldn't have just a simple on/off, but something that can react dynamically, and not under or over process certain program material.  just a thought.

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: christopher on
Sorry, am I the only person in this thread who prefers the originals to the 'remasters'? The only track where I prefer the processed version over the original is the last one, "One Way Ticket To Paradise" (probably because it's far more subtle). However, when the vocal comes in right at the end of the clip, it's too sibilant.

In the Keane song, the processing leaves the drums and vocals horribly snappy - the vocal's pumping and then almost immediately gets lost in the mix due to the threshold on the compressor. In the Muse track, the drums sit really nicely in the overall mix - but in the reprocessed version, the rhythm guitar and kick/snare stand way too far out, and are too boomy in the mix.

Good efforts and I'm sure on some tracks which sound far worse before you start applying your process, you could get some very interesting results. However, like any good production, less is more.


They Don't get much worse than the muse example, but I am getting the hang of it now, I now realise just how much of a bass boost is needed, I am struggling with de-clipping on some stuff though http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=61446

What do you think to my remastering efforts?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: jesseg on
imo it wouldn't be much harder to implement the transient and sustain processing into the plugin as well, and tie them into the crest detection algorithm.  that way you wouldn't have just a simple on/off, but something that can react dynamically, and not under or over process certain program material.  just a thought.

Unfortunately I'm not that much into DSP to manage such a task. I think the algorythms which make up dominion are quite sophisticated. But fortunately we don't even need any crest detection, because replaygain already did that task for us. Calculate the difference between average perceived db-level and max peak level and you got the headroom (at least if your tracks aren't damaged by pops or clicks). Then, if the headroom is under a certain threshold, apply dominion dsp with levels set inversely proportional to the headroom.