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Topic: LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample (Read 12289 times) previous topic - next topic
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LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

I found a problem sample on track last night and i find it transparent on 192 kpbs CBR by using --preset cbr 192 but its not transparent on -V 2, -V 1 and -V 0 --vbr-new on both LAME 3.97 and LAME 3.98b5.

LAME 3.98b5 -V 0

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.1 report
foobar2000 v0.9.4.4
2007/10/13 16:11:41

File A: F:\Listen Tests\Die In A Crash (Sample).wav
File B: F:\Listen Tests\Die In A Crash (Sample) LAME3.98b5 V0.mp3

16:11:41 : Test started.
16:12:09 : 01/01  50.0%
16:12:22 : 02/02  25.0%
16:12:30 : 03/03  12.5%
16:12:42 : 04/04  6.3%
16:13:20 : 05/05  3.1%
16:13:50 : 06/06  1.6%
16:14:08 : 07/07  0.8%
16:14:28 : 08/08  0.4%
16:14:42 : 09/09  0.2%
16:14:52 : 10/10  0.1%
16:15:16 : 11/11  0.0%
16:16:13 : 12/12  0.0%
16:16:16 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)


A nasty precho at around 0:15 - 0:18

All the vbr encoded versions of that track produce a huge bitrate bloat at around 245 on V2 and 263 on V0 thanks to that awfull sfb21 bug while the 192 cbr encode is transparent.

I have uploaded the lossless sample and the LAME 3.98b5 encoded mp3.

Lossless Sample in FLAC:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/19f5s6

Lossy sample in LAME 3.98b5 -V 0:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/iapt6f
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #1
can you try also --vbr-old
wavpack hybrid 256k -hx4

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #2
If it is indeed a problem sample for 3.98b5...looks like there will be a 3.98b6...
Zune 80, Tak -p4 audio library, Lossless=Choice

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #3
can you try also --vbr-old

I tried -V 0 --vbr-old on LAME 3.98b5 and i find it transparent unlike --vbr-new.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #4
you should be hired by Lame devs to spot artifacts!!!

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #5
OT: Is there a Wiki Article with all samples? With links to download sources and relevant discussions? If not, would be nice to have a sample resource page...

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #6
you should be hired by Lame devs to spot artifacts!!!


Yeah that would be a neat job

Anyway I did a quick test with LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset and its seems transparent to me, but its very easy to abx at LAME 3.97 and 3.98b5 at -V 0 --vbr-new and my hearing is not that great at all.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #7
Wow, my hearing isn't as good as I thought.

I can't hear the flaw.

I'm not quite sure what pre echo is.

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #8
I'm not quite sure what pre echo is.

Pre-echo is the opposite of a very short normal echo: it happens before the trigger instead of afterwards. For example, a sharp percussion hit, may sound more soft and "smeared". Visually, you could imagine it like an added quick "fade-in" of a sound.

Spotting artifacts has less to do with hearing/equipment and more with training. It is a common myth, that recognizing mp3-artifacts is mainly an issue of hearing and equipment. However, some people are more sensitive to certain artifacts than to others. I for example dont care that much about pre-echo and instead more about other artifacts - mainly those which happen at high frequency ranges (10-14khz).
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #9
Woohoo, I could make it on CMI8738 chip and with TV background noise.
Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.1 report
foobar2000 v0.9.4.5 beta 1
2007/10/14 00:10:18

File A: D:\Die_In_A_Crash.flac
File B: D:\Die_In_A_Crash_V0.mp3

00:10:18 : Test started.
00:12:28 : 01/01  50.0%
00:13:23 : 02/02  25.0%
00:13:54 : 03/03  12.5%
00:16:25 : 04/04  6.3%
00:17:06 : 04/05  18.8%
00:17:34 : 05/06  10.9%
00:20:10 : 06/07  6.3%
00:22:19 : 07/08  3.5%
00:22:21 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 7/8 (3.5%)
stimulating the audio nerve directly

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #10
I have never favored VBR at very high bitrate, but until today I did not think that CBR 192 is better than -V0 towards pre-echo on a sample, especially as 3.98b5 so far seems to have improved on pre-echo behavior.
Good to see that 3.98b5 --vbr-old is fine, as well as that  cbr is fine which I guess is valid for the more interesting abr mode as well.
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #11
I have never favored VBR at very high bitrate, but until today I did not think that CBR 192 is better than -V0 towards pre-echo on a sample, especially as 3.98b5 so far seems to have improved on pre-echo behavior.
Good to see that 3.98b5 --vbr-old is fine, as well as that  cbr is fine which I guess is valid for the more interesting abr mode as well.


ATM i recken -V 1 would be a good setting then -V0 since -V0 is only abit or not better then the -V1 and a 1mb bigger, most of time sticks upto 260 on most tracks i tried while V2 tracks go to 240 like 260 was max but I did get a track 300kbps    on V0 which is a sbf21 bug though. And i could have picked up artifacts on a 192 encode if I was trained to spot artifacts and I still belive that VBR is still better then 192 CBR and this sample is a bug on --vbr-new and the other tracks i abxed this week.

Woohoo, I could make it on CMI8738 chip and with TV background noise.
Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.1 report
foobar2000 v0.9.4.5 beta 1
2007/10/14 00:10:18

File A: D:\Die_In_A_Crash.flac
File B: D:\Die_In_A_Crash_V0.mp3

00:10:18 : Test started.
00:12:28 : 01/01  50.0%
00:13:23 : 02/02  25.0%
00:13:54 : 03/03  12.5%
00:16:25 : 04/04  6.3%
00:17:06 : 04/05  18.8%
00:17:34 : 05/06  10.9%
00:20:10 : 06/07  6.3%
00:22:19 : 07/08  3.5%
00:22:21 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 7/8 (3.5%)


Kinda glad to see someone else to abx that with background noise, like when my little brother was pestering me when i was abxing that track
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #12
My impression is that CBR / ABR is inferior to VBR with preecho based on past tests.
wavpack hybrid 256k -hx4

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #13
Hi i am a new here, so i keep me offside. But if someone finds a new sample that lame doesnt convert good without transparancy, do you guys want to know about it. Or do you have enough samples already?

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #14
There is no such thing as an ever increasing collection of samples where Lame behaves badly.
The contrary is true: the Lame devs do a hard job improving on the issues found, and they do succeed - though perfection is not possible.
Any new sample that shows weaknesses of a specific encoder is welcome here, so there is a chance the encoder can be improved.
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

LAME -V 0 --vbr-new killer sample

Reply #15
There is no such thing as an ever increasing collection of samples where Lame behaves badly.
The contrary is true: the Lame devs do a hard job improving on the issues found, and they do succeed - though perfection is not possible.
Any new sample that shows weaknesses of a specific encoder is welcome here, so there is a chance the encoder can be improved.

A few years back i did some testing how high my vbr should be before i could not heard the difference. I used the first  10 seconds from dayton - the sound of music. It has a very sparkling and high beginning. I listened with a headphone and i  had to up the bits (VBR HQ) each run, it sounded better each time, but i still could hear the difference between 320 cbr and the original cd. So thats why i remembered it. That was an older encoder dont know how it sounds now.

I tried to find the cd, but could not find it to test. If i find it, i come back on it. It must be somewhere.
If not then i hope someone else has it lying and some spare time  :-)

 
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