... I would prefer to keep -skew constant.

Quote from: Nick.C on 22 November, 2007, 03:01:32 AM... I would prefer to keep -skew constant.No problem for -1 for me. Though -skew 40 brought a little progress for differentiating good and bad, it was not very significant. Same goes for -snr 21/24/27. It doesn't really matter.So we can use -skew 36 throughout all the quality levels, and maybe -snr 24 or 27 for -1 for the good of a certain systematics.

-2 quality settings: -fft 10101 -snr 21 -skew 36 -nts 1.5 -spf 22224-22235-22336-12347-12358; Yields 42.22MB / 476.3kbps.

I will try that out this evening to see what it means for regular/problem tracks.-snr 21 -skew 36 -nts 1.5 is fine to me.Not using 1s for the short blocks also perfectly matches my ideas.Using a spreading of 22224 on the 64 sample FFT instead of 22235 as of my proposal will bring average bitrate up for regular music, but it is also more defensive and in a sense more appropriate for the rather crude frequency resolution of a 64 sample FFT even at higher frequencies. I did consider such a thing too but gave it away for efficiency. Just a matter of taste. For taking care of the restricted resolution of the 64 sample FFT an alternative is to use a 64 and 128 sample FFT with a spreading of 22235 for FFT64 and 22236 for FFT128. This doesn't push up average bitrate significantly but costs another analysis.I don't care very much about these details but would prefer the 64 and 128 sample FFT solution because efficiency isn't seriously affected.-fft 10101 looks nice being so symmetric, but what is the idea behind the 256 sample FFT?I prefer a 512 sample FFT as an alternative addition to the 1024 sample FFT which reaches out pretty much into the neighboring blocks, and because of this might push up the decisive min values due to energy from the neighboring blocks. I don't know whether this can really be a problem, but I don't feel very secure using only a 1024 sample FFT.A spreading of 12358 for the 1024 sample FFT looks a bit demanding to me for the high frequency regions especially as we do take good care of HF with the short FFT(s) with your proposal and with my 2 short FFTs alternative. But maybe it doesn't matter much as the demanding values for the short FFTs push up bitrate for the high frequencies already. In case we agree on my proposal for the two short FFTs my feeling is not to care much for the HF with the long FFTs, not to be very demanding here, and leave this up to the short FFTs.Let's see what the statistics says for regular/problem tracks.

I tried to merge your idea for short fft's and my previous -2. 12358 at 1024 samples doesn't make a huge difference (if any) to my sample set.

As an aside, I finished my 1496 track processing at -3: 16.8GB / 348kbps output from 40.8GB / 859kbps input

This may have already been addressed somewhere in the previous twenty-two pages (I have not read them all!)... but has anyone done a listening comparison to high-bitrate MP3 or AAC, so average users will have a plain-English frame of reference? - M.

Yor sample set is made up of problem tracks to a large extend. This is welcome information, but it is good to match it against the average bitrate of a regular track set. I use a 12 sample full regular track set for this purpose.

AC/DC - Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap / 781kbps / 398kbps / 331kbpsB52's - Good Stuff / 993kbps / 408kbps / 361kbpsDavid Byrne - Uh-Oh / 937kbps / 398kbps / 344kbpsFish - Songs From The Mirror / 854kbps / 384kbps / 335kbpsGerry Rafferty - City To City / 802kbps / 400kbps / 338kbpsIron Maiden - Can I Play With Madness / 784kbps / 422kbps / 370kbpsJean Michel Jarre - Oxygene / 773kbps / 454kbps / 372kbpsMarillion - The Thieving Magpie / 790kbps / 404kbps / 344kbpsMike Oldfield - Tr3s Lunas / 848kbps / 421kbps / 364kbpsScorpions - Best Of Rockers N' Ballads / 922kbps / 421kbps / 353kbps

So, overall an average of 850kbps / 410kbps / 350kbps

Your -2 setting of -fft 10101 -snr 21 -skew 36 -nts 1.5 -spf 22224-22235-22336-12347-12358yields 404/539 kbps on average with my regular/problem set.As it is a bit more conservative than my setting I like this result and agree with this setting.

Finally I managed to do my listening test for current -3 with my problem sample set as well as utb.flac I once had problems with.Everything is fine, and I will use this setting for my DAP.

lossyWAV alpha v0.5.0 : WAV file bit depth reduction method by 2Bdecided.Delphi implementation by Nick.C from a Matlab script, www.hydrogenaudio.orgUsage : lossyWAV <input wav file> <options>Example : lossyWAV musicfile.wavQuality Options:-1 extreme quality [5xFFT] (-cbs 512 -nts -3.0 -skew 36 -snr 21 -spf 12224-12225-12225-11226-11236 -fft 11111)-2 default quality [4xFFT] (-cbs 512 -nts +1.5 -skew 36 -snr 21 -spf 22224-22235-22346-12347-12358 -fft 10101)-3 compact quality [2xFFT] (-cbs 512 -nts +6.0 -skew 36 -snr 21 -spf 22235-22236-22347-22358-2246C -fft 10001)-o <folder> destination folder for the output file-nts <n> set noise_threshold_shift to n dB (-18.0dB<=n<=+6.0dB) (-ve values reduce bits to remove, +ve values increase)-force forcibly over-write output file if it exists; default=offCodec Options:-wmalsl optimise internal settings for WMA Lossless codec; default=offAdvanced / System Options:-snr <n> set minimum average signal to added noise ratio to n dB; (0.0dB<=n<=48.0dB) Increasing value reduces bits to remove.-skew <n> skew fft analysis results by n dB (0.0db<=n<=48.0db) in the frequency range 20Hz to 3.45kHz-cbs <n> set codec block size to n samples (512<=n<=4608, n mod 32=0)-fft <5xbin> select fft lengths to use in analysis, using binary switching, from 64, 128, 256, 512 & 1024 samples, e.g. 01001 = 128,1024-overlap enable conservative fft overlap method; default=off-spf <5x5hex> manually input the 5 spreading functions as 5 x 5 characters; These correspond to FFTs of 64, 128, 256, 512 & 1024 samples; e.g. 22235-22236-22347-22358-2246C (Characters must be one of 1 to 9 and A to F (zero excluded).-allowable select allowable number of clipping samples per codec block before iterative clipping reduction; (0<=n<=64, default=0).-window select windowing function n (0<=n<=6, default=0); 0=Hanning 1=Bartlett-Hann; 2=Blackman; 3=Nuttall; 4=Blackman-Harris; 5=Blackman-Nuttall; 6=Flat-Top.-clipping disable clipping prevention by iteration; default=off-dither dither output using triangular dither; default=off-quiet significantly reduce screen output-nowarn suppress lossyWAV warnings-detail enable detailled output mode-below set process priority to below normal.-low set process priority to low.Special thanks:Dr. Jean Debord for the use of TPMAT036 uFFT & uTypes units for FFT analysis.Halb27 @ www.hydrogenaudio.org for donation and maintenance of the wavIO unit.

Hi, regarding my remark some pages back about noise when encoding silence with lossyFlac. I updated my post as I think I know what must have happened. It had nothing to do with lossyWav.dithering from the foobar2000 converter must have been to blame. Even though it was set to "only dither lossy sources" it seemed to have kicked in somewhere. A new test with setting to "Never Dither" (and latest lossyWav) was as expected. No more noise.I liked to clear that up. the result (that doesn't matter IMO):silence.flac bit rate 3silence.lossy.flac bit rate 12

For -1:My proposal some posts ago was-1 -skew 40 -snr 21 -fft 11011 -spf 22224-22225-11235-11246-12358 -nts -1which yields 452/576 kbps for my regular/problematic set.Now that we want to have -skew 36 -snr 21 throughout the quality levels I suggest we trade -skew 40/36 for-nts -1/-2.So I suggest we use-1 -skew 36 -snr 21 -fft 11011 -spf 22224-22225-11235-11246-12358 -nts -2

lossyWAV beta v0.5.1 : WAV file bit depth reduction method by 2Bdecided.Delphi implementation by Nick.C from a Matlab script, www.hydrogenaudio.orgUsage : lossyWAV <input wav file> <options>Example : lossyWAV musicfile.wavQuality Options:-1 extreme quality [4xFFT] (-cbs 512 -nts -2.0 -skew 36 -snr 21 -spf 22224-22225-11235-11246-12358 -fft 11011)-2 default quality [3xFFT] (-cbs 512 -nts +1.5 -skew 36 -snr 21 -spf 22224-22235-22346-12347-12358 -fft 10101)-3 compact quality [2xFFT] (-cbs 512 -nts +6.0 -skew 36 -snr 21 -spf 22235-22236-22347-22358-2246C -fft 10001)-o <folder> destination folder for the output file-nts <n> set noise_threshold_shift to n dB (-18.0dB<=n<=+6.0dB) (-ve values reduce bits to remove, +ve values increase)-force forcibly over-write output file if it exists; default=offCodec Options:-wmalsl optimise internal settings for WMA Lossless codec; default=offAdvanced / System Options:-snr <n> set minimum average signal to added noise ratio to n dB; (0.0dB<=n<=48.0dB) Increasing value reduces bits to remove.-skew <n> skew fft analysis results by n dB (0.0db<=n<=48.0db) in the frequency range 20Hz to 3.45kHz-cbs <n> set codec block size to n samples (512<=n<=4608, n mod 32=0)-fft <5xbin> select fft lengths to use in analysis, using binary switching, from 64, 128, 256, 512 & 1024 samples, e.g. 01001 = 128,1024-overlap enable conservative fft overlap method; default=off-spf <5x5hex> manually input the 5 spreading functions as 5 x 5 characters; These correspond to FFTs of 64, 128, 256, 512 & 1024 samples; e.g. 22235-22236-22347-22358-2246C (Characters must be one of 1 to 9 and A to F (zero excluded).-allowable select allowable number of clipping samples per codec block before iterative clipping reduction; (0<=n<=64, default=0).-window select windowing function n (0<=n<=6, default=0); 0=Hanning 1=Bartlett-Hann; 2=Blackman; 3=Nuttall; 4=Blackman-Harris; 5=Blackman-Nuttall; 6=Flat-Top.-clipping disable clipping prevention by iteration; default=off-dither dither output using triangular dither; default=off-quiet significantly reduce screen output-nowarn suppress lossyWAV warnings-detail enable detailled output mode-below set process priority to below normal.-low set process priority to low.Special thanks:David Robinson for the method itself and motivation to implement it in Delphi.Dr. Jean Debord for the use of TPMAT036 uFFT & uTypes units for FFT analysis.Halb27 @ www.hydrogenaudio.org for donation and maintenance of the wavIO unit.

IMO it's alright giving beta state to lossyWAV.

Quote from: halb27 on 25 November, 2007, 05:41:32 AMIMO it's alright giving beta state to lossyWAV.The program is stable enough I would think too, but a little "How to use blurb" should be added when you go Beta, (maybe the example foobar script + screenshot too). The info is in this thread, but you can't expect a test user to go through all that.

lFLC.bat Change Log:v1.0.0.1- added line to delete all wavs from temp directory before encoding

This isn't about psychoacoustics. What you can or can't hear doesn't come into it. Instead, you perform a spectrum analysis of the signal, note what the lowest spectrum level is, and throw away everything below it. (If this seems a little harsh, you can throw in an offset to this calculation, e.g. -6dB to make it more careful, or +6dB to make it more aggressive!).