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Topic: Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats (Read 12526 times) previous topic - next topic
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Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

hello everyone,

i just registrered to hydrogenaudio and would like to ask a couple of questions...
i use to download lots of mp3s, after visiting this page i started downloading APE with CUE sheets to obtain the best quality for further processing.
I'd like to know:
1) after downloading APE files, i'd like to use my nero encoding tool with lame 3.97 but can't find any plugins, only found some with 3.91 versions, if somebody knows how to deal with this, please respond...i got nero 7 premium reload with mega plugin pack, so i can convert to wav and would like to use lame 3.97 with VBR new settings.
2) when downloading mp3s with 320, 224, 256kbps is there any loss of quality converting to VBR new 190kbps??
3) is AAC 128, 192kbps the same quality as VBR 190 with lam3 3.97??

thanks a lot,

kind regards,

S&N

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #1 –
Quote from: S7N on
1) after downloading APE files, i'd like to use my nero encoding tool with lame 3.97 but can't find any plugins, only found some with 3.91 versions, if somebody knows how to deal with this, please respond...i got nero 7 premium reload with mega plugin pack, so i can convert to wav and would like to use lame 3.97 with VBR new settings.

I don't know how to get LAME working with Nero, but you can use the command line encoder or the LameDrop frontend. Both are availible at Rarewares.

Quote
2) when downloading mp3s with 320, 224, 256kbps is there any loss of quality converting to VBR new 190kbps??

When transcoding from a lossy codec to a lossy codec, there will always be quality loss. (see the wiki page). The best thing to do with high-bitrate like that is to leave them as is, unless you are seriously low on space. MP3 Repacker can sometimes save you space on high-bitrate CBR MP3s, but don't expect any miracles.

Quote
3) is AAC 128, 192kbps the same quality as VBR 190 with lam3 3.97??

AAC is more advanced than MP3, so it will outperform MP3 at any given bitrate. From my personal experience, I'd say that AAC at 128-160 kb/s is on par with 192 kb/s LAME MP3s.

If you are trying to decide what bit rate to encode at, you should do some ABX tests to determine what bitrate is transparent to your ears.

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #2 –
Quote from: slks on
If you are trying to decide what bit rate to encode at, you should do some ABX tests to determine what bitrate is transparent to your ears.
Or better (save yourself some grief of knowing that your encodes is somewhat not-that-transparent), just encode to whatever bitrate you guess would be best, and then listen. If it sounds good enough, then it is good enough.

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #3 –
Is it that bad to re encode from 320kbps to vbr q2?

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #4 –
Quote from: senjuuni on
Is it that bad to re encode from 320kbps to vbr q2?

It's unnecessary. It probably won't sound worse to you, but the space gain isn't even worth the encoding time, let alone the quality loss.
Nothing is impossible if you don't need to do it yourself.

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #5 –
You call 151MB down to 88MB not worth it?
I don't care about the time. What I care is the quality. Is it a lot lower than what I would get from encoding at q2 from the original cd?

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #6 –
Short answer: ABX.

Long answer: In those files you have the losses of two lossy encodings. Whether this will result in audible degradation totally depends on the source material and thus is unpredictable. Check if you can hear the difference.
Nothing is impossible if you don't need to do it yourself.

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Silversight on
Quote from: senjuuni on
Is it that bad to re encode from 320kbps to vbr q2?

It's unnecessary. It probably won't sound worse to you, but the space gain isn't even worth the encoding time, let alone the quality loss.


additionally, wouldn't it be pointless to convert CBR into VBR is there was no VBR to begin with?

i've always had it mentioned that CBR should be transcoded to CBR,  and the same to follow with other bitrates etc. in order to maintain consistency and minimize resulting discarded data during lossy to lossy encoding

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #8 –
it wouldn't be pointless to convert 320 CBR to any VBR setting, since the maximum bitrate for any VBR setting is still 320 kbps. one just compresses other frames not needing 320 when transcoding into VBR.

many have frowned upon transcoding, but it's still your ears which will be listening. if transcoded files sound good to you, so be it.
"Listen to me...
Never take unsolicited advice..."

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Jalan on
i've always had it mentioned that CBR should be transcoded to CBR,  and the same to follow with other bitrates etc. in order to maintain consistency and minimize resulting discarded data during lossy to lossy encoding

Where did you hear this nonsense?

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Rio on
it wouldn't be pointless to convert 320 CBR to any VBR setting, since the maximum bitrate for any VBR setting is still 320 kbps. one just compresses other frames not needing 320 when transcoding into VBR.


It doesn't work that way. ALL of the frames would first be decoded to PCM and then reencoded to VBR, not just the frames that can be made smaller.

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #11 –
Quote from: greynol on
Where did you hear this nonsense?


part of a discussion brought up on another forum, one not particularly dedicated to the intricacies of all things audio related. most of what i'd gleaned from the discussion was face value originally, until i'd seen the "transcode to the same bitrates" mentality being somewhat rephrased on a few other things (passing blog entries, more forum discussions).

i'd not made the attempt to look into it further. i'm rather glad i seized the opportunity in this thread, before i'd considered going down a path similar to the original poster's with the few lossless sets of files i ripped that i normally transcode into v2 mp3s for pc listening purposes.

it's rare i rip to 320 cbr mp3 (often when i've got a dj's compilation/bootleg cd-r as opposed to a commercially released album) since i'm never initially certain of what generation the files were burned onto the disc as. i'd probably get more benefit running them through an analyzer as well but as they're there for personal listening purposes only and i have no problems with what i'm able to hear, i've foregone that process.

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #12 –
i agree with you,

you mentioned to run throuth analyzer, anny tips what software? i am just curious and would like to try it. the thing is i finally found a rare album, download it, but 320kbps and it's a bit lot....
i read couple of articles and seen information that converting to 320kbps from original label is a great quality but i also understand that converting from lossy to lossy has it's price...looks like i really need to take an ABXtest to surprise my self that i do not even hear the difference 
anyway i found it interessting to ask and still after reading all this stuff  don't know what to do with this files....
and one more thing i forgot to ask before: when i download an album in VBR, how will i find out what VBR and quality was used for the compression? will i need some sf for that?
i mean i use my iTunes, it shows only for. example 214 (VBR) Kbps and so on...
i use Shure E2C headphones with my NWSony mp3 player series and the sound of musis is really great, i have to mention that i played just a "BIT" with the equaliser and it really gives me a good feeling, but that's for another discussion...

thanks for reply

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #13 –
@ S7N

you could use Guerillasoft's Encspot Pro to find out (or at least, guess?) what encoder was used. if LAME was used, it can tell what quality level (usually VBR 77-78 means V2). or you could use MrQuestionMan as well

@ pdq

you are correct about MP3 > PCM > back to MP3 again. what i'm trying to point out is that whatever data that has been retained by 320 CBR would be the maximum quality for that bitrate, one is just trying to additionally shave off other parts not really needing 320 (such as silence, soft sound, solo instruments, voice, etc.) when transcoding to VBR even if it means going through PCM transcoding (even if WAV files are 1411 kbps, it would still sound as 320 CBR).

cheers!
"Listen to me...
Never take unsolicited advice..."

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #15 –
Well I have a few problems...
1. I like all my albums to be at the same quality if possible. I use 192cbr or q2 vbr.
2. The way I see it is this. Either q2 vbr or lossless. I consider preset extreme and cbr 320 just waste of space.
3. My hard drive is only 80GB (4+ years old)... and no I can't afford buying a new pc yet.  (I have 23GB of music)

Time for an abx...

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #16 –
Quote from: senjuuni on
1. I like all my albums to be at the same quality if possible. I use 192cbr or q2 vbr.


Assuming that you are referring to -V2 vbr, why do you think that this is the "same quality" as 192kbps CBR?

Quote
3. My hard drive is only 80GB (4+ years old)... and no I can't afford buying a new pc yet.  (I have 23GB of music)


You can buy a new hard drive without buying a new PC.

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #17 –
It's not the same quality but it's usually the same size. I don't keep cbr at 256 or 320 I transcode...
Why would I buy an ata133 hdd? Yes my mainboard doesn't even have sata support.
This pc as it is will serve me well until I can get the money I need for a new one. (at least $1K)

And damn this abx... I checked the site wiki and downloaded winabx. I converted a 320kbps file to q2 vbr; I converted them both to wav and did the abx test.
Sadly (or not) I can't hear any difference... and I'm using headphones for the test.
It's electronic music... trance... what sounds should I pay attention to?

I'm also using easy cd-da extractor 10 for all the encodings. (it uses lame 3.97 for mp3 I believe)

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #18 –
i did the same,

i used my sony dj headphones for the ABX test and did not hear the difference between 320cbr and v2 lame ....anyway that just gives me the confindent feeling that i can convert these files to 190 (but rather download from p2p one more time)

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #19 –
Quote from: senjuuni on
And damn this abx... I checked the site wiki and downloaded winabx. I converted a 320kbps file to q2 vbr; I converted them both to wav and did the abx test.
Sadly (or not) I can't hear any difference... and I'm using headphones for the test.
It's electronic music... trance... what sounds should I pay attention to?
Well, basically, you try to find a certain segment (might be as small as 0.5s or even smaller) where you can hear a difference. Keep shifting the start/end markers around, compare tracks A & B, until you hear a difference, and then listen to track X, and tell the program what you think track X is.

If you managed to get at least 8/8 (8 correct guesses out of 8 tries), that means the difference you heard is real, and tracks A & B are not transparent relative to each other. Less than that, and chances are great that there is no difference... in that segment.

Keep exploring the segments of both tracks, until you can get an 8/8 result, or you run out of segments (i.e. you've tried your best trying to find a difference -- and fails).

If the latter happened (i.e. you failed to find any difference), be happy! That means, to your ear, and with your current setup, there is no audible difference between tracks A & B. In other words, tracks A & B are transparent relatively to each other.

Convertin CBR MP3 (320) to different formats

Reply #20 –
Well I guess now I know how to properly abx
But... quote "That sounds like a lot of work"

Sigh... I see why using lossless is far easier.